Anub's cocoon needs a longer cooldown

General Discussion
Cocoon wasnt touched since his second ult was more popular and gave him survivability. Something he definitely needed before receiving baseline spell armor.

Anub was trash because of retarded beetle AI. When they fixed it, Anub became super broken and received one of the biggest "one-time" nerfs ever seen shortly after.
Anub in general has one of the strongest toolkits of any hero out there. He's one of the best at CC, Initiation, tanking Spells. Cocoon probably should be on a slightly longer cooldown or easier to break someone out of, as it can essentially CC 2 people for 3-4 seconds (as one tries to break another out).
Not to mention cocoon wasnt that big of a deal back when Zarya was meta. Now she is pretty much gone. You're left with Tassadar, as an hard counterplay to cocoon.

You could give cocoon better numbers before and it still could see little gameplay. What changed is the way you play the game. It can shut down ults (like Dragonblade or Tormented Souls) or hyper-carry. Cocoon vs Illidan/Genji/Valla/Greymane with Abathur? Oh gawd... 3v5 ;(
07/07/2017 07:53 AMPosted by MortalWombat
Not to mention cocoon wasnt that big of a deal back when Zarya was meta. Now she is pretty much gone. You're left with Tassadar, as an hard counterplay to cocoon.

[/quote]

tassadar, tychus, kharazim, tracer, liming (disentigrate), lucio, genji, D.Va. I am probably forgetting some.
07/07/2017 07:44 AMPosted by McVade
Anub in general has one of the strongest toolkits of any hero out there. He's one of the best at CC, Initiation, tanking Spells. Cocoon probably should be on a slightly longer cooldown or easier to break someone out of, as it can essentially CC 2 people for 3-4 seconds (as one tries to break another out).


This is one of the more interesting balance threads ive read recently as everyone has different ideas for how to nerf it.

This point in particular I hadn't considered as bassically cocoon is guaranteed 8 seconds of CC. Whether its 1 person cocooned for 8 seconds or 1 in the cocoon for 4 seconds while another breaks them out in 4.

Hell Even if an entire team reacts quickly and breaks it in one second. Anub still wasted 1second of 5 enemies time not to mention all of the retargeting necessary.

I dont think this necessarily makes it OP it was just an interesting observation.
it's just too strong to be a point click ability with this range. Make a skillshot out of it.
07/07/2017 08:09 AMPosted by FrostyPyro
07/07/2017 07:53 AMPosted by MortalWombat
Not to mention cocoon wasnt that big of a deal back when Zarya was meta. Now she is pretty much gone. You're left with Tassadar, as an hard counterplay to cocoon.



tassadar, tychus, kharazim, tracer, liming (disentigrate), lucio, genji, D.Va. I am probably forgetting some.[/quote]
As Genji you got 99% chance to get cocoon'd the moment you pick Dragonblade.
Forgot about Tychus, good point. Same as Tracer tho, he is at the other end of popularity right now.
Using Disintegrate to counter 1 other ult is a fair trade, but its hardly a decent counter.
Kharazim, especially with Volley of Blows, sure, but then you need to go deep as squishy or leave your front without heals. Fair trade tho.

Lucio and D.Va.
D.Va yes, especially if she got Q of cooldown and can reposition.
If you pick Lucio, it means you didnt pick hyper-carry as well, so you are usually cocoon priority.

And thats the point.
If you cocoon carry/dive, its out of the game. If you cocoon backline, someone has to move back to get it out of cocoon.
If you got dive comp yourself as Anub, it means your enemy will be retreating/kiting quite a lot. Well say bye to one who get cocooned while moving back (this was part of last HGC dive meta).

Thats why i think range should be a prority. If range gets reduced, you are closer to cocoon target. This should be counter to ults like Dragonblade, Tormented Souls, Sound Barrier or simply Illidan. Not everything that moves.

Anyway, cocoon is part of bigger problem. Anubarak does way too much (similar to old Malfurion or Ragnaros).

PS - am i the only one who thinks cleanse should work on cocoon? Kinda weird...
07/07/2017 08:12 AMPosted by Amei
it's just too strong to be a point click ability with this range. Make a skillshot out of it.

If you compare Zuljin ensnare with cocoon, you know there is something not right about one of these lol
07/07/2017 08:36 AMPosted by MortalWombat
07/07/2017 08:09 AMPosted by FrostyPyro
...

tassadar, tychus, kharazim, tracer, liming (disentigrate), lucio, genji, D.Va. I am probably forgetting some.


Using Disintegrate to counter 1 other ult is a fair trade, but its hardly a decent counter.

[/quote]

it an AMAZING counter, it takes less than a second to break the cocoon, letting you use the rest of the beam on something else, and has a 20s cooldown compared to cacoons 60, and there is li mings trait to further reduce the effective cooldown.
Its a positive trade.
As an anub main, I laugh hysterically at people thinking cocoon is the op ability. Rewind at level 20 is broken. He can literally create 4 stuns in a row plus 4 shields if you talented correctly. If anything should be removed it's rewind
07/07/2017 12:43 PMPosted by Patrick
As an anub main, I laugh hysterically at people thinking cocoon is the op ability. Rewind at level 20 is broken. He can literally create 4 stuns in a row plus 4 shields if you talented correctly. If anything should be removed it's rewind


Yep. Cocoon is alright, but easily broken. Rewind is insane.
Hey all,

Just wanted to give you a heads up that we do have a few changes to Anub'arak coming in with our next patch that didn't make it to PTR, including some tweaks to Cocoon:
  • Range reduced from 9 to 6
  • Missile Speed reduced by 33%

Keep an eye on the patch notes for the full changelog!
07/07/2017 01:07 PMPosted by AlexK
Hey all,

Just wanted to give you a heads up that we do have a few changes to Anub'arak coming in with our next patch that didn't make it to PTR, including some tweaks to Cocoon:
  • Range reduced from 9 to 6
  • Missile Speed reduced by 33%

Keep an eye on the patch notes for the full changelog!


Great changes, thanks. Do you guys agree that rewind is a little OP on him too?
07/07/2017 01:07 PMPosted by AlexK
Hey all,

Just wanted to give you a heads up that we do have a few changes to Anub'arak coming in with our next patch that didn't make it to PTR, including some tweaks to Cocoon:
  • Range reduced from 9 to 6
  • Missile Speed reduced by 33%

Keep an eye on the patch notes for the full changelog!


I think the range reduction is huge. It's ridiculous rn how far away you can be and still web someone (and I'm an anub main!)
Bummer. More nerfs to a cool hero when the source of the problem is easily rewind.

Rewind and bolt are two of the biggest design problems left in old hero design in this game.

Its the reason zeratul kinda sucks overall except with one build.

Its the reason Anub is nerfed through the floor, buffed, and then nerfed through the floor again.

Its one of the reasons Sylv is a little too good at doing what she does.

Just get rid of rewind (and bolt).
07/07/2017 01:13 PMPosted by dmonk
Bummer. More nerfs to a cool hero when the source of the problem is easily rewind.

Rewind and bolt are two of the biggest design problems left in old hero design in this game.

Its the reason zeratul kinda sucks overall except with one build.

Its the reason Anub is nerfed through the floor, buffed, and then nerfed through the floor again.

Its one of the reasons Sylv is a little too good at doing what she does.

Just get rid of rewind (and bolt).


More often then not cocoon has already won the game before anub gets rewind.

Don't get me wrong, Rewind should be removed from the game and only a tiny few should have bolt.

Cocoon was doing too much in it's current form. When anub can be fighting the warrior and cocoon the support or DPS from half a screen away it's too far.
07/07/2017 01:20 PMPosted by Werbs

Cocoon was doing too much in it's current form. When anub can be fighting the warrior and cocoon the support or DPS from half a screen away it's too far.


I have to tentatively agree with this. As much as I like Anub in his current state, if he were to be nerfed in any way, it would have to be the cocoon. Any nerfs to his base kit could make him horrible outside of his heroic, so the logical solution is just to tweak the heroic and let his base power stay the same.

There was a time when Anub's cocoon was perfectly fine, but that was before they made Anub's base setup actually decent. Since Anub was made stronger awhile back, Cocoon's power has been made much more obvious.

I would have expected a cooldown reduction, but a 33% range reduction will be just as severe, if not more - you can't cocoon then go in, you have to go in then cocoon.
07/07/2017 01:13 PMPosted by dmonk

Just get rid of rewind (and bolt).


Signed. It doesnt fit at all in some kits except to make one shot combos or free escapes.
And the characters who get it, it's not even relevant in their lore. The ones who lost it, it actually makes sense for, and they need it.
07/07/2017 01:07 PMPosted by AlexK
Hey all,

Just wanted to give you a heads up that we do have a few changes to Anub'arak coming in with our next patch that didn't make it to PTR, including some tweaks to Cocoon:
  • Range reduced from 9 to 6
  • Missile Speed reduced by 33%

Keep an eye on the patch notes for the full changelog!


I think it needs to not get a 10 second cooldown if you out play it with Iceblock. Using a 60 second cooldown to cancel web and it being 10 seconded is not a good trade in certain situations.
07/07/2017 01:33 PMPosted by HaoNguyen
07/07/2017 01:07 PMPosted by AlexK
Hey all,

Just wanted to give you a heads up that we do have a few changes to Anub'arak coming in with our next patch that didn't make it to PTR, including some tweaks to Cocoon:
  • Range reduced from 9 to 6
  • Missile Speed reduced by 33%

Keep an eye on the patch notes for the full changelog!


I think it needs to not get a 10 second cooldown if you out play it with Iceblock. Using a 60 second cooldown to cancel web and it being 10 seconded is not a good trade in certain situations.


Agreed. This isn't an intended interaction but it's a bit of a special snowflake so it's going to be a bit longer until it's fixed.

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