I dislike the Chromie Changes

General Discussion
Can you actually rework a hero that needs it? I'm still waiting for a viable and competitive Nova, my dream...

Chromie was fine... lots of build diversity. I hate change for the sake of change.
08/22/2017 06:04 AMPosted by Espurr
Chromie, a perfectly balanced character.


wtf
08/22/2017 12:11 PMPosted by mynd
Can you actually rework a hero that needs it? I'm still waiting for a viable and competitive Nova, my dream...

Chromie was fine... lots of build diversity. I hate change for the sake of change.
Nova needs just 4 minor changes.. nothing too big :P
Raynor on the other hand is quite out-dated..
Assuming she lost that roughly 60% in base damage of Q you will still have the same damage in the end after you complete the 80 hits with each giving you +5 damage. If you are good at hitting you can get even way more damage than before since the bonus damage goes up a lot with consecutive shots. So it's buff for those who take their time to aim for more likely shots and nerf to those who just spray and pray to land a hit every once in a while.
Why would you even rework Chromie? balanced hero on all leagues, multiple viable builds...
08/22/2017 12:31 PMPosted by KingFeeder
Assuming she lost that roughly 60% in base damage of Q you will still have the same damage in the end after you complete the 80 hits with each giving you +5 damage. If you are good at hitting you can get even way more damage than before since the bonus damage goes up a lot with consecutive shots. So it's buff for those who take their time to aim for more likely shots and nerf to those who just spray and pray to land a hit every once in a while.

Oh dear, I hadn't noticed the 60% dmg reduction x_x
But it's so easy to dodge Chromie's skillshots when you see her casting.... She can only reliably land them if enemies are CCed or too busy to pay attention to her.
This may be a nerf after all :P
All these trait quests is a lot of busy work. I don't know why Blizzard has gone completely overboard with it. When every hero rework has 3-4 quests it's way too much and power spikes are much harder to balance the game around because you don't know when the hero will get it.

End result, the mess that is the current Butcher.
08/22/2017 11:44 AMPosted by uGeeGee
08/22/2017 10:45 AMPosted by LordLumpy
I think the only good change is the Time Trap resetting Q and W. Time Trap is pretty useless most times, unless you have Q and W off CD. Enemy teams rarely try to target and remove it, just run into it and wait. There is no threat to getting caught in it most times unless your team is there and ready to capitalize on it.

With the CD reset, Chromie can now stop, line up her shots and do some more serious damage to any enemy who stumbles upon it. Question is whether it will work or is it just good on paper?


It's her Temporal Loop heroic on a basic ability with no windup time for counterplay, how could that only 'be good on paper'? It makes Chromie even more cancerous to play against.


Hardly. If you are in range, you can see her drop the Time Trap and destroy it. Many people don't as they don't see it as a threat.; often its not a threat. In addition, the hero trapped can't be damaged while in it. It gives the hero a few seconds to evaluate the situation and plan an appropriate counter or escape.

Temporal Loop lets you continue to damage the hero before they snap back to original location they were trapped. It also allows Chromie to specifically target a player/hero whereas Time Trap you have to set and hope someone walks into it.
08/22/2017 12:39 PMPosted by RavenFire
Oh dear, I hadn't noticed the 60% dmg reduction x_x
But it's so easy to dodge Chromie's skillshots when you see her casting.... She can only reliably land them if enemies are CCed or too busy to pay attention to her.
This may be a nerf after all :P


It does make her skill-floor a lot higher. If you were methodical with the Qs, using them in chokepoints and places enemy was forced to go, on CC follow-up she will be even stronger. If you were one of those who didn't place a single time trap during game, yeah it will be big nerf. I've seen that Q quest completed in couple minutes in current version, seen half of it done in just first skirmish at middle many many times. The 80 shot requirement isn't that high if you compare it to that as you will get storm tier talent level powerspike from it as reward. Not to mention there is no timer when you gotta make the next shot to still get that bigger bonus for consecutive hits unlike the current level 14 Q talent. Hopefully this will hold people from just randomly spamming the Q as many Chromies do currently.
08/22/2017 10:45 AMPosted by LordLumpy
I think the only good change is the Time Trap resetting Q and W. Time Trap is pretty useless most times, unless you have Q and W off CD. Enemy teams rarely try to target and remove it, just run into it and wait. There is no threat to getting caught in it most times unless your team is there and ready to capitalize on it.

With the CD reset, Chromie can now stop, line up her shots and do some more serious damage to any enemy who stumbles upon it. Question is whether it will work or is it just good on paper?


It's a terrible change to replace Piercing Sands.

It should work, just like her Temporal Loop if timed properly. So, if you get trapped in it with less than full health, there is a good chance of her Q and W taking you out. (Which people will complain is OP. A free Temproal Loop.) And if you don't die, Chromie can use Temporal Loop or drop Slowing Sands to finish you off. Chromie can already do this now, but at the moment her Q and W may not be up once the trap is triggered, whereas with the reset, it's guaranteed she will have a Q and W for anyone who gets trapped in it. Hence a free Temporal Loop every 18sec, or better yet, three charges of it with the Andorhal Anomaly talent which has no penalty on the 18sec CD.

^Do you not see this being OP in the right hands? You think she's annoying now with her skill shots, just wait for this...

Time traps own Butcher's charge, stealthies, or if you're being chased, saving teammates, setting up at objectives, etc... not useless at all.

But, removing the pierce talent for anything is terrible. It is a must have for the Sandblast build. Fire the POS who even suggested it, because they are not doing their JOB. Don't just change things because that's all you could come up with. It is not good enough.
Chromie changes? Hmm...I kind of like how she is now. I'll have to look into these.
She was ok before but kind of boring, I hope the changes liven her up a bit.
Not that bad.

Imagine if the 80 stacks quest was related to a 18 sec cooldown skill shot.

Like tyrande owl, a quest completed once every 100 games.

And you still, at 80 stacks, cant kill !@#$ combined with OWL Lv1 quest at max range... while doing about 500 damages in a very very late game situation.

That's what you can call a real, Quest.
I don't understand the percing sand talent percing through all heroes and moved to 20. it's already pretty rare to touch 2 heroes (still a 100% increase for a powerful ability so it sounds fair that it's rare), so more heroes? What's the point?
08/22/2017 06:04 AMPosted by Espurr
Baseline Q quest, per hit, permanent +5 damage. On 80 hits, Past and Future Me becomes active. (where you shoot a lower damage Q from past position)

Has a stack counter (how many Qs hit in a row), which adds a bonus stack to the damage stack. (so the 2nd one gives +10 instead of +5, the third one gives +15 instead of +5).

Level 1 talents: Q quest removed; Hitting 3 Q in a row, they give triple bonus damage increase.

Level 4 talents: Q pierce removed. New E talent: When Time Trap is activated, reset Q and W cooldowns.

Level 13: Reaching Through Time (Range) Removed. 30s CD activated: Swap location with Sand Clone (Q baseline quest). Steph mentions that you can B back to base and get full health/mana, and instant teleport back to the battlefield

Level 20: Piercing Sands (Infinite through heroes, but no quest procs for pierces)

I am a level 32 Chromie main and I do not like these changes. Yes, they might be good but it feels incredibly alien to me. I'm afraid that Blizzard will tear her through the Change-Train while she was completely balanced before.

I do not feel well with change to Chromie, a perfectly balanced character.


I'm curious as to why you dislike those changes. Realisticly speaking the only nerf she will recieve is Reaching Through Time being removed, however across the board (going by your post, I'm too lazy to google this) she's getting hard buffed. As far as "alien" is concerned well that's the nature of change, which is needed for all characters at some point.

Chromie's actual damage power lies in her W and Bronze Talons, not her Q. Making pretty much every single Q talent baseline (except Past and Future Me being a quest reward) will buff her tremendously. Not a single W talent was touched from your post, so you'd effectively be recieving both Q and W benefits from the current version (or E talents if you'd opt into that for more control). Not to mention that at level 1 and 2 you should always be running Timewalker's Pursuit and Bronze Talons. These 2 talents are completely mandatory and not up for debate. Being gifted the Q talents into her baseline kit is huge, given both how spammy Q is and how strong Bronze Talons are.

So with the changed level 13 talent you'd just have to manage your positioning a bit better, as well as the "ghetto" blink with finished Q quest. As someone who usually takes Bye-Bye just because I think it's hilarious I'm very used to her normal range, and positioning is key my friends. Chromie should never really die unless enemy drafted minimum 2 divers or a Genji. At least, that's how it should be. (Not speaking directly to you about that OP, just to people in general).

Past and Future Me was never really a "strong" level 20 talent to begin with. The only reasons we ever take it is because it's the only damage amplifying ability at 20 so we settle for it, or because it's more fun to use. Making it baseline will promote players to not only land her Q's more carefully during the game, but also increase her skillcap by utilizing Andorhal Anomaly or either of the talented heroics. Out of the two, I would say that Temporal Loop is definitly the weaker of the two talented heroics. The new piercing Q at 20 sounds much better compared to Past and Future Me in the live version for raw damage output.

Overall this sounds like some great buffs to Chromie, would absolutely try the changes out myself if it hits live.
08/22/2017 11:24 AMPosted by MattVi
Hopefully I'll have more time to comment on this later, but wanted to quickly confirm that Chrono Sickness (time trap slowing talent) is not being removed in the rework =)


Thank god ;-;
08/22/2017 03:23 PMPosted by Laparo
08/22/2017 06:04 AMPosted by Espurr
Baseline Q quest, per hit, permanent +5 damage. On 80 hits, Past and Future Me becomes active. (where you shoot a lower damage Q from past position)

Has a stack counter (how many Qs hit in a row), which adds a bonus stack to the damage stack. (so the 2nd one gives +10 instead of +5, the third one gives +15 instead of +5).

Level 1 talents: Q quest removed; Hitting 3 Q in a row, they give triple bonus damage increase.

Level 4 talents: Q pierce removed. New E talent: When Time Trap is activated, reset Q and W cooldowns.

Level 13: Reaching Through Time (Range) Removed. 30s CD activated: Swap location with Sand Clone (Q baseline quest). Steph mentions that you can B back to base and get full health/mana, and instant teleport back to the battlefield

Level 20: Piercing Sands (Infinite through heroes, but no quest procs for pierces)

I am a level 32 Chromie main and I do not like these changes. Yes, they might be good but it feels incredibly alien to me. I'm afraid that Blizzard will tear her through the Change-Train while she was completely balanced before.

I do not feel well with change to Chromie, a perfectly balanced character.


I'm curious as to why you dislike those changes. Realisticly speaking the only nerf she will recieve is Reaching Through Time being removed, however across the board (going by your post, I'm too lazy to google this) she's getting hard buffed. As far as "alien" is concerned well that's the nature of change, which is needed for all characters at some point.

Chromie's actual damage power lies in her W and Bronze Talons, not her Q. Making pretty much every single Q talent baseline (except Past and Future Me being a quest reward) will buff her tremendously. Not a single W talent was touched from your post, so you'd effectively be recieving both Q and W benefits from the current version (or E talents if you'd opt into that for more control). Not to mention that at level 1 and 2 you should always be running Timewalker's Pursuit and Bronze Talons. These 2 talents are completely mandatory and not up for debate. Being gifted the Q talents into her baseline kit is huge, given both how spammy Q is and how strong Bronze Talons are.

So with the changed level 13 talent you'd just have to manage your positioning a bit better, as well as the "ghetto" blink with finished Q quest. As someone who usually takes Bye-Bye just because I think it's hilarious I'm very used to her normal range, and positioning is key my friends. Chromie should never really die unless enemy drafted minimum 2 divers or a Genji. At least, that's how it should be. (Not speaking directly to you about that OP, just to people in general).

Past and Future Me was never really a "strong" level 20 talent to begin with. The only reasons we ever take it is because it's the only damage amplifying ability at 20 so we settle for it, or because it's more fun to use. Making it baseline will promote players to not only land her Q's more carefully during the game, but also increase her skillcap by utilizing Andorhal Anomaly or either of the talented heroics. Out of the two, I would say that Temporal Loop is definitly the weaker of the two talented heroics. The new piercing Q at 20 sounds much better compared to Past and Future Me in the live version for raw damage output.

Overall this sounds like some great buffs to Chromie, would absolutely try the changes out myself if it hits live.


I dislike them because I was perfectly fine with Chromie before and change scares me when it seems kinda... unnecessary? but I'll see
08/22/2017 03:23 PMPosted by Laparo
08/22/2017 06:04 AMPosted by Espurr
Baseline Q quest, per hit, permanent +5 damage. On 80 hits, Past and Future Me becomes active. (where you shoot a lower damage Q from past position)

Has a stack counter (how many Qs hit in a row), which adds a bonus stack to the damage stack. (so the 2nd one gives +10 instead of +5, the third one gives +15 instead of +5).

Level 1 talents: Q quest removed; Hitting 3 Q in a row, they give triple bonus damage increase.

Level 4 talents: Q pierce removed. New E talent: When Time Trap is activated, reset Q and W cooldowns.

Level 13: Reaching Through Time (Range) Removed. 30s CD activated: Swap location with Sand Clone (Q baseline quest). Steph mentions that you can B back to base and get full health/mana, and instant teleport back to the battlefield

Level 20: Piercing Sands (Infinite through heroes, but no quest procs for pierces)

I am a level 32 Chromie main and I do not like these changes. Yes, they might be good but it feels incredibly alien to me. I'm afraid that Blizzard will tear her through the Change-Train while she was completely balanced before.

I do not feel well with change to Chromie, a perfectly balanced character.


I'm curious as to why you dislike those changes. Realisticly speaking the only nerf she will recieve is Reaching Through Time being removed, however across the board (going by your post, I'm too lazy to google this) she's getting hard buffed. As far as "alien" is concerned well that's the nature of change, which is needed for all characters at some point.

Chromie's actual damage power lies in her W and Bronze Talons, not her Q. Making pretty much every single Q talent baseline (except Past and Future Me being a quest reward) will buff her tremendously. Not a single W talent was touched from your post, so you'd effectively be recieving both Q and W benefits from the current version (or E talents if you'd opt into that for more control). Not to mention that at level 1 and 2 you should always be running Timewalker's Pursuit and Bronze Talons. These 2 talents are completely mandatory and not up for debate. Being gifted the Q talents into her baseline kit is huge, given both how spammy Q is and how strong Bronze Talons are.

So with the changed level 13 talent you'd just have to manage your positioning a bit better, as well as the "ghetto" blink with finished Q quest. As someone who usually takes Bye-Bye just because I think it's hilarious I'm very used to her normal range, and positioning is key my friends. Chromie should never really die unless enemy drafted minimum 2 divers or a Genji. At least, that's how it should be. (Not speaking directly to you about that OP, just to people in general).

Past and Future Me was never really a "strong" level 20 talent to begin with. The only reasons we ever take it is because it's the only damage amplifying ability at 20 so we settle for it, or because it's more fun to use. Making it baseline will promote players to not only land her Q's more carefully during the game, but also increase her skillcap by utilizing Andorhal Anomaly or either of the talented heroics. Out of the two, I would say that Temporal Loop is definitly the weaker of the two talented heroics. The new piercing Q at 20 sounds much better compared to Past and Future Me in the live version for raw damage output.

Overall this sounds like some great buffs to Chromie, would absolutely try the changes out myself if it hits live.


We play Chromie differently I guess, because I completely disagree about Bronze Talons. End game, you shouldn't be in range to even use that.

The big problem is taking away of piercing sands. Chromie is at her best with her poke and zoning the enemy away. For example, her best map IMO is Infernal Shrines, where she can put down her sands in the chokepoint and smash anyone who comes through it. She can also guard the other entrances as well from a nice, safe distance. But now, without piercing sands, the tank will be able to absorb that damage and it will be much easier to counter her. This also affects another of her strengths, which is when destroying a tower accompanied by her team. It was easy to hit multiple enemies with the Q in those situations, which (along with her sands) made her very powerful in situations like that.
Not to mention that at level 1 and 2 you should always be running Timewalker's Pursuit and Bronze Talons. These 2 talents are completely mandatory and not up for debate


Timewalker's Poursuit is extremely situational to stealth heroes. I consider it to be the beginer's talent, only players who begin with Chromie always pick this talent because it doesn't require aim, you should never pick it outside a stealth situation because you are nerfing your damage so much, especially if you go Bronze talons (which is the one I always pick, but that's because I don't pick Chromie if a Q build will be the best option, so it's not mandatory despite being !@#$ing amazing), because that means you're on a temporal loop build and god you need your W quest for late game one shot.
I was afraid for a moment. Chrono sickness is the most fundamental chromie talent. Reaching through time will be missed, a lot, but for my liking, losing chrono sickness would be a show stopper.

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