Fix Kel' Thuzad

General Discussion
I'm not a top level played so I'm not going to pretend to be by throwing up fancy numbers and facts. But in my games vs a KT team it seems that once they reach about level 13 they start to just own the non KT team. To me this does not seem fair at all and make the game super fun fun to play. Could something please be done with him to make his effect of the game somehow less meaningful.
He is meaningful while alive. Instead of complaining that he is super strong, why don't you try to kill him next time, eH? He is really fragile so it's not difficult as much as you think, hell it's not difficult at all, even a Valeera forces him to make a run for his money. If you can't do it alone, than make it priority for the team. Stop whining for nerfs on balanced heroes. Can't you understand that he sacrifices Mobility, Survivability and HP for strong burst damage on demand, and CC ?
It's his chains of ice talent at 13. Makes it effortless to one shot people just for landing a chain.

Should just be removed like Ess of Johan was when Li-Ming released.
Oh my, complaining about 48% win rate hero in HL, and 54% in Master, below midtier and below Kharazim and Brightwing :)

This is how we ended with nerfs to Chromie.
09/11/2017 10:00 AMPosted by Ianarian
It's his chains of ice talent at 13. Makes it effortless to one shot people just for landing a chain.

Should just be removed like Ess of Johan was when Li-Ming released.

Besides maybe Murky and similar, he can't one-shot anyone.
Not sure anyone can.
If he had to hit the enemy with the chain and kill them with another attack, it's a two-shot.
But do keep blowing things out of proportions because you can't make a valid point.

- Edit:
Morons downvoting, as usual. :)
09/11/2017 09:59 AMPosted by KronKrian
He is meaningful while alive. Instead of complaining that he is super strong, why don't you try to kill him next time, eH? He is really fragile so it's not difficult as much as you think, hell it's not difficult at all, even a Valeera forces him to make a run for his money. If you can't do it alone, than make it priority for the team. Stop whining for nerfs on balanced heroes. Can't you understand that he sacrifices Mobility, Survivability and HP for strong burst damage on demand, and CC ?
Yeah kill him! So he can just return with his phylactery. scrub.
09/11/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Persephone
Oh my, complaining about 48% win rate hero in HL, and 54% in Master, below midtier and below Kharazim and Brightwing :)

This is how we ended with nerfs to Chromie.


Win rates really can't tell the full story.
09/11/2017 11:57 AMPosted by MoonUnit
09/11/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Persephone
Oh my, complaining about 48% win rate hero in HL, and 54% in Master, below midtier and below Kharazim and Brightwing :)

This is how we ended with nerfs to Chromie.


Win rates really can't tell the full story.

Really?

Win rates are math, statistics, numbers.

What else is a better way to tell the REAL story? Your feelings that you had after KTZ finally completed the quest, and finally landed 25% of their chains and finally scored a kill on you at 50% HP?

That is the better measure? How?
09/11/2017 12:23 PMPosted by Persephone
09/11/2017 11:57 AMPosted by MoonUnit
...

Win rates really can't tell the full story.

Really?

Win rates are math, statistics, numbers.

What else is a better way to tell the REAL story? Your feelings that you had after KTZ finally completed the quest, and finally landed 25% of their chains and finally scored a kill on you at 50% HP?

That is the better measure? How?


I'm not proposing an alternative measure, but win rates cannot tell the whole story. Medivh is a great example. Win rate being near 50% is not a good reason to shut down discussion on a character.
09/11/2017 11:07 AMPosted by Lithary
09/11/2017 10:00 AMPosted by Ianarian
It's his chains of ice talent at 13. Makes it effortless to one shot people just for landing a chain.

Should just be removed like Ess of Johan was when Li-Ming released.

Besides maybe Murky and similar, he can't one-shot anyone.
Not sure anyone can.
If he had to hit the enemy with the chain and kill them with another attack, it's a two-shot.
But do keep blowing things out of proportions because you can't make a valid point.

Been seeing this one a lot recently, so I'm just clarifying it when I see it= "One-shot" implies a single combo, not just one single hit. If say Kel'Thuzad were to hit you with chains+root+d&d+shadow fissure, and that took you from 100%->0% hp in one second, that's a one-shot (because it's literally impossible to have reacted fast enough and done anything to live).

Now back to the OP: KTZ is perfectly fine. He's by far the hardest of the mages to play; the easiest to kill and the lowest damage until he completes his quest. I'll say Chains of Ice might need a slight nerf, but that's it.
He hit like a truck yes, but atleast you can see him and avoid his attack, unlike stealth hero.
I've seen a lot of complaints around this, and want to address something.

Kel'Thuzad cannot one shot you.

He might be able to get you with his entire combo. But he can't one shot you. He has to land all 4 abilities at the same time with his quest finished pretty much if he wants to get anywhere remotely close to "one-shotting" someone. And doing so takes a lot of skill, and a bit of luck since your enemy typically needs to be fairly out of position to land said wombo-combo.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Really?

Win rates are math, statistics, numbers.

What else is a better way to tell the REAL story? Your feelings that you had after KTZ finally completed the quest, and finally landed 25% of their chains and finally scored a kill on you at 50% HP?

That is the better measure? How?


I'm not proposing an alternative measure, but win rates cannot tell the whole story. Medivh is a great example. Win rate being near 50% is not a good reason to shut down discussion on a character.


You're one of those people constantly calling for nerfs to Varian, aren't you?
I like KT right where he is. Not too strong, needs to finish up his quest to have a large impact, and easily killable. Seems balanced quite well, actually.
09/11/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Persephone
Oh my, complaining about 48% win rate hero in HL, and 54% in Master, below midtier and below Kharazim and Brightwing :)

This is how we ended with nerfs to Chromie.
Good thing winrate doesn't matter for how OP a champ can be.

A dota 2 champ called IO has received multiple nerfs despite her winrate being 35% same with another one i cant remeber.

You can be broken and have a low winrate.
09/12/2017 09:14 AMPosted by mindhammer
I've seen a lot of complaints around this, and want to address something.

Kel'Thuzad cannot one shot you.

He might be able to get you with his entire combo. But he can't one shot you. He has to land all 4 abilities at the same time with his quest finished pretty much if he wants to get anywhere remotely close to "one-shotting" someone. And doing so takes a lot of skill, and a bit of luck since your enemy typically needs to be fairly out of position to land said wombo-combo.
One shotting is considered killing someone in less than 1.5 seconds in almost any moba. No one actually expects one hit to do it.
funny thing is i love how new heroes that are overtuned bet mass defended BUT LOOK AT THE WIN RATE!!! its not like hes new and ppl are ruining his win rate at all...

also wtf didnt we all agree globals are op and bad for qol?
09/12/2017 09:14 AMPosted by mindhammer
I've seen a lot of complaints around this, and want to address something.

Kel'Thuzad cannot one shot you.

He might be able to get you with his entire combo. But he can't one shot you. He has to land all 4 abilities at the same time with his quest finished pretty much if he wants to get anywhere remotely close to "one-shotting" someone. And doing so takes a lot of skill, and a bit of luck since your enemy typically needs to be fairly out of position to land said wombo-combo.


Even then, the combo murder potential is generally tied to the early midgame while assuming that you've finished your trait quest before you hit level 10. Then you can capitalize on doing some mean damage towards supports and assassins.

Eventually that falls off and most heroes wont die to you lategame.

Fun and deadly nevertheless, but people are shouting a lot of hyperbole.
Actually I am quite surprised how well of a balance Kel'thuzad has. He is powerful for sure but in order for him to combo you down he needs a specific set of circumstances to occur. This on top of the fact that any distance closer can punish you if you are even remotely out of place makes him more of a high risk high reward character.
09/11/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Persephone
Oh my, complaining about 48% win rate hero in HL, and 54% in Master, below midtier and below Kharazim and Brightwing :)

This is how we ended with nerfs to Chromie.


Because OMG yes win rates are everything so clearly he needs buffs. Clearly! *sarcasm intended*

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum