Tracer is the antithesis of fun.

General Discussion
When playing against her anyways. Most of the OW cast is. I play this game for fun. I play all games for fun, could care less about competitive and ranks and whatnot. So Blizzard, I don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to put her in this game. Must've thought, "Let's take the most annoying and infuriating hero to play against in OW and put her in HoTS! Brilliant!"

She isn't op, she isn't "broken," but she is simply not fun to play against. She doesn't really have a counter (AA heroes die just as fast to her than she does to them.) She is virtually impossible to hit/lock down majority of the time. Her dash charges and cds make her unkillable when used properly. Her mobility is insane. I just don't get how you guys thought this was a good idea.

Same problem with Dva and Genji, but at least they're somewhat manageable. That said, it is not fun having to kill the same hero 3-4 times before they're actually dead. It's also not fun to not be able to kill a hero because they deflect all your team's damage or they literally dash a screen-length's away every fight.

I'm found it harder and harder to enjoy the game with each new OW hero release. So please, for the love of penguin juice pancake chicken salads, really step back and take a look at these heroes before you release them. Think, "Well, this works in an fps, but is it really good for a MOBA in it's current state? Will everyone enjoy this? Is that amount of mobility really healthy? Is having 3 lives on a hero really fun for everyone? Or is it more frustrating than fun?"

For the record, all the other recent hero releases are pretty sweet imo. Like Kel and Garrosh. Haven't played them but they add a fun challenge to the game. I play Stukov a bit, he can be quite strong. Cassia is one of my favs. Haven't tried Mal. But the thing is, these heroes all provide an enjoyable experience for both sides (imo anyways). Tracer, Genji and DVA do not.

Thanks.
TRACER IS THE ANTITHESIS OF FUN
cracking open the thesaurus doesn't make your point more valid
2 words. Colossal Smash.

Let her hit you, hold down W while counting to 3. Hit E. Force her recall. She's now used it and is pretty close. Press R. Delete her, move on.

For ranged auto attackers it's easier - just right click her.

For anyone else - why are you solo and letting a Tracer chase u?

If you're not solo, your team should be assisting you and you should be positioned in a way that her diving you will lead to punishment for her.
"Fun" is a subjective term, my friend.

Some men find pleasure in getting kicked between the legs.

Tracer frustrates you. That's fine. Nonetheless, she doesn't frustrate everyone, so you have to ask yourself if this game overall is something you can enjoy or if perhaps another experience is more fitting for you.
09/16/2017 07:15 PMPosted by Valeera
TRACER IS THE ANTITHESIS OF FUN
cracking open the thesaurus doesn't make your point more valid

Snark doesn't make your response any more fact-based or convincing.

It's obvious what the OP is saying and it's far from the first time it's been said. HOTS was developed around a basic set of parameters like movement speed and the requirement to stop and turn in order to attack or cast an ability. Those things require split seconds of time, but in key moments, those split seconds can mean life or death. The game was balanced around these concepts which is why Raynor, while being boring to play, was balanced because he could dish out damage from range, but couldn't run if caught.

Then Blizz decided to embrace OW, which is their right to do, since it is their IP. But in order to build buzz for these heroes, they decided to make them unique by allowing them to move and fire at the same time (exception: Zarya). The choice was intended to give those characters the "feel" they have in OW. We were told that this would be balanced by their reduced damage output and reduced lethality. Of course, this didn't happen because characters that can't kill aren't fun to play.

So, we ended up with a situation where we have a group of hyper-mobile heroes that can hit you while you run or while you chase them and can't hit them back. They're often given additional mobility skills like Tracer and Genji that allow them to bounce around the screen like pinballs making hitting them with skill shots a nightmare. Since so many characters rely on skill shots, this functions as a soft counter for most players. They're annoying. They feel like they're "cheating" because they break rules that other characters must obey. And it's perfectly rational to get annoyed and frustrated with this. We also get annoyed when other rules are broken like the ability to see your enemy's character (stealth). It's frustrating to play against and for the same reason.
09/16/2017 07:25 PMPosted by TheArsonist
"Fun" is a subjective term, my friend.

Some men find pleasure in getting kicked between the legs.

Tracer frustrates you. That's fine. Nonetheless, she doesn't frustrate everyone, so you have to ask yourself if this game overall is something you can enjoy or if perhaps another experience is more fitting for you.
Wow, you are on an another level of stupid.
09/16/2017 07:36 PMPosted by tallgeese
09/16/2017 07:25 PMPosted by TheArsonist
"Fun" is a subjective term, my friend.

Some men find pleasure in getting kicked between the legs.

Tracer frustrates you. That's fine. Nonetheless, she doesn't frustrate everyone, so you have to ask yourself if this game overall is something you can enjoy or if perhaps another experience is more fitting for you.
Wow, you are on an another level of stupid.


If you can provide a reasonable counterargument to anything I've said, I'd be more than willing to consider it.

I'm not sure a general insult counts as that, unfortunately.
09/16/2017 07:36 PMPosted by tallgeese
09/16/2017 07:25 PMPosted by TheArsonist
"Fun" is a subjective term, my friend.

Some men find pleasure in getting kicked between the legs.

Tracer frustrates you. That's fine. Nonetheless, she doesn't frustrate everyone, so you have to ask yourself if this game overall is something you can enjoy or if perhaps another experience is more fitting for you.
Wow, you are on an another level of stupid.

Why? I personally agree, (un)fun and annoying are subjective and different for everyone. Nothing's really fun unless you're the one winning, anyways.
09/16/2017 07:36 PMPosted by tallgeese
Wow, you are on an another level of stupid

No, it's a valid point. It's just dismissive of the argument being made.

He's saying that Tracer can be countered therefore our experience with her is irrelevant. We should simply accept the system as it is, use the solution we're intended to use to counter her and be done with it. That's his viewpoint. He probably enjoys playing Tracer or enjoys the fantasy of the hyper-fast time traveler zipping around the map shooting people. That's ok.

As you've seen from my above argument though, there's also a rational reason for getting frustrated with her. I dislike playing against her, personally. She's annoying because I frequently play characters with a lot of skill shots and Tracer soft-counters them with her mobility. If there was one character I absolutely hate, it would be Genji, and for the same reason, except they also gave him deflect and stupid high damage.
What's wrong? Don't like Genji diving under your tower to kill you, hit W, take zero damage, and jump out? C'mon now.
09/16/2017 07:43 PMPosted by Joat
09/16/2017 07:36 PMPosted by tallgeese
Wow, you are on an another level of stupid

No, it's a valid point. It's just dismissive of the argument being made.

He's saying that Tracer can be countered therefore our experience with her is irrelevant. We should simply accept the system as it is, use the solution we're intended to use to counter her and be done with it. That's his viewpoint. He probably enjoys playing Tracer or enjoys the fantasy of the hyper-fast time traveler zipping around the map shooting people. That's ok.

As you've seen from my above argument though, there's also a rational reason for getting frustrated with her. I dislike playing against her, personally. She's annoying because I frequently play characters with a lot of skill shots and Tracer soft-counters them with her mobility. If there was one character I absolutely hate, it would be Genji, and for the same reason, except they also gave him deflect and stupid high damage.


That's not at all what I'm saying.

I do not dismiss that many people find facing Tracer a miserable experience. Genji can be a big frustration for me, considering his "Deflect" and how quickly Tracer shoots. He can sap over half of my health if I'm not careful.

That's a big part of the game, though -- adjusting your overall style of play to compensate for the enemy team. This is going to sound incredibly pretentious, but at least half of "The Art of War" consists of adapting to the enemy's actions. It's basic strategy.

Tracer can be a nightmare to fight. What choices do you have?

Adapt or retreat.
She's an awful MOBA design, like most other OW characters brought in thus far. The core issue is that her and Genji in particular are low risk and high reward. You don't have to worry about having decent fundamentals since you can just dash in, get kills, and dash right back out without a care in the world.

The solution to Tracer/Genji is a common one such as "lock her down and kill" but really that rings true for every character. The issue is that these two in particular have so many escapes that it's a wonder how you can die at all most of the time.

Their mobility is too much and it's particularly bad since things like slows don't even make much difference to them since they can dash around or teleport about. Even if they misplay, their punishment is to essentially walk off and try again in a few seconds.

It's surprising they are this way since an assassin like Kel'Thuzad is actually fairly well balanced. He has awful mobility but a truckload of damage, this gives him perceptible strengths to play on and weaknesses to exploit, that's a good design. Even a hero like Zeratul which has a lot of mobility to them has to use their teleports wisely. The OW assassins don't care about that.
Yeah vsing Tracer isn't fun but generally, you can just ignore her unless she's attacking your backline, then you can easily shoo her away. The only times I get really annoyed since I expect to never kill her all game is when she starts placing bombs on my allied squishies and deleting them, even if it gets her killed.
The problem as i see it is that people blame "the overwatch cast" when i think it is more a problem with which heroes from the overwatch cast blizzard chose to bring in (so far).

Overall, Tracer, Genji and Lucio are obnoxiously fast characters. They bring a brand of mobility to HOTS that is frankly very frustrating. Zarya can be left out of this equation.

Tracer (just like in Overwatch) can be INCREDIBLY frustrating to go against if the Tracer player is very good. You think you can hit her, but she blinks away. You do hit her and suddenly you think you have her locked down, then she recalls. If you're a low mobility squish assassin, she's your worst freaking nightmare.

Genji is similar. You get him down to like 10% health and the next thing you know he deflects and swooshes to the other side of the damn map. I don't view him as being quite as frustrating as Tracer when it comes to getting killed by him though. He's largely a clean-up assassin. If Genji kills you, you were already pretty beat up and he swooped in to finish the job.

Lucio makes everyone faster. He's a much better late-game healer than he is early in the match. And he boops you just as you think you've got a kill secured.

Those three are pretty frustrating.

But fear not. There are many overwatch heroes to come that don't have this insane emphasis on escapability and movement speed.

Tracer is Overwatch's centerpiece mascot (along with Winston). It just makes sense that they picked her to join this game first. They should have waited on Genji IMO and went with someone that didn't mirror Tracer's amazing escape and engage ability.

Ana and Junkrat will not be like the above three. They are not fast and (outside of bomb jumping with Junkrat) do not have amazing movement abilities.

Don't ask me why they picked the heroes they picked. But i know for sure the choices they made prejudiced a good bit of the HOTS community against Overwatch heroes.

This is a misplaced prejudice. Overwatch has great heroes and i think people are going to enjoy the ones that are sure to come in the future more than Mr. I need healing and the bumble-bee from hell.
09/16/2017 07:40 PMPosted by TheArsonist
09/16/2017 07:36 PMPosted by tallgeese
... Wow, you are on an another level of stupid.


If you can provide a reasonable counterargument to anything I've said, I'd be more than willing to consider it.

I'm not sure a general insult counts as that, unfortunately.
There's no need to provide reasonable counterarguments when the argument is "people like getting kicked in the nuts."
i've said since her release that tracer is hands down the most op hero in the game. anyone who thinks otherwise has no knowlege of hots or is completely delusional.
09/16/2017 07:25 PMPosted by TheArsonist
"Fun" is a subjective term, my friend.

Some men find pleasure in getting kicked between the legs.


You been looking through my window? >.> <.<
Exactly who do you enjoy being killed by?
09/16/2017 07:57 PMPosted by MacFierce
The problem as i see it is that people blame "the overwatch cast" when i think it is more a problem with which heroes from the overwatch cast blizzard chose to bring in (so far).


This is a good point. I know Tracer is pretty much the 'mascot' or 'face' of OW so her coming in would be expected but I think Reinhardt would actually make a decent design in this game since his OW kit seems suited for it.

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