Tracer is the antithesis of fun.

General Discussion
I honestly feel the same way. I love Tracer the character, but Tracer the "Hero of the Storm" was honestly an unhealthy addition to the game, in my opinion. Her addition seemed to mark the beginning of a large shift in the game. Suddenly we ended up with a "mobility creep".

The idea of a character being significantly more agile than others existed before with Illidan, who was infamously horrid to play against because he was really the only of his kind then. It wasn't fun to fight a guy who dealt plenty of damage, had decent durability, and could ALWAYS outrun you.

But Tracer came along, and this went to being a normal part of the game. Now we have to take such things into consideration while balancing, which is still taking a long time. That's why we've seen older character who were just fine before suddenly become obsolete because of a lack of any mobility. It may have been fine before that Raynor didn't have a dash or a heavy speed boost, but in today's game he suffers for it. Characters are having to be built either to be heavily mobile, or to be able to survive/fight against heavy mobility.

It may not be overpowered or broken (well, Tracer certainly was on her release), but it's just a pain. Especially if you like playing the way you did before you had to worry about characters who could move an entire screen towards or away from you in one click.
09/16/2017 07:53 PMPosted by GateKeeper
She's an awful MOBA design, like most other OW characters brought in thus far. The core issue is that her and Genji in particular are low risk and high reward. You don't have to worry about having decent fundamentals since you can just dash in, get kills, and dash right back out without a care in the world.
Nailed it with the risk/reward.

Another annoying facet - Tracer's teleport just being able to get rid of channeled spells (example, Nova's ult) - especially ridiculous since it resets cooldowns 100%. Even some direct interrupts don't do that.
If you watch HGC, the answer to Genji is to chainCC and focus him while Cleanse or Divine Shield are unavailable or the support is in a coccoon or something. Great counter.

Same with Tracer, but you also have to start with a point-and-click stun into chainstuns or silence - roots won't do.
09/16/2017 07:02 PMPosted by JarekDefiler
She doesn't really have a counter


Stopped here.

Let's be clear:

Tracer has the lowest HP pool of all assassins.
She can easily die in the span of a single Taunt from Varian or any other disable.
Her burst potential is only decent and her sustained damage is weak.
She cannot effectively clear lanes or solo merc camps.
Her only strong function is to flank and kill players who position poorly with low HP.

If Tracer had no counter, she would be enormously popular in Ranked and have a very high win-rate. But she isn't and she doesn't.

Tracer's Counters:

Genji, Cassia, Valeera, Zul'jin, Raynor, Varian, Zarya, Gul'dan, Thrall, Lili, Brightwing, Gazlowe.

Much like Nova, Tracer is great at stomping in QM because there's no draft, and if your team doesn't have a counter or know how to bait and switch, you'll get eaten alive.
09/16/2017 07:25 PMPosted by TheArsonist
"Fun" is a subjective term, my friend.

Some men find pleasure in getting kicked between the legs.

Tracer frustrates you. That's fine. Nonetheless, she doesn't frustrate everyone, so you have to ask yourself if this game overall is something you can enjoy or if perhaps another experience is more fitting for you.


With that analogy, playing Tracer is the equivalent of going around and kicking everyone in the nuts. A select few will enjoy it, but most will hate your guts.
The influx of OW heroes signalled the end for the vast majority of heroes since they are susceptible to high mobility heroes and are simply unable to fight back.

Genji, Tracer and to an extent D-Va are pure cancer for a game like this and are the reason for many re-works of heroes that have simply been dead since the introduction of Genji.

For example, even after her re-work, Jaina is completely pointless as she has zero mobility and her spells have the same range as a melees auto attack. They also have long cooldowns and require your enemies to be standing completely still and let every blizzard wave hit them.
If you ever played against a good Tracer in OW itself then you'd be pretty thankful for the HOTS version of her.
09/16/2017 07:44 PMPosted by Extinguisher
What's wrong? Don't like Genji diving under your tower to kill you, hit W, take zero damage, and jump out? C'mon now.


even if assassins are broken, they always have high skill cap. It's better than watching a bunch of tanks stunlock someone to death or chromie getting lucky off screen and bursting someone down.
In before another hero is ruined/nerf not for the sake of balance, but for the sake of low-tier casual player fun.
Tracer doesn't have any hard cc. Nowadays you got a bunch of assassins with hard cc and high burst potential in their kit... but nobody be complaining about that! Tracer's given high mobility and self-cleanse instead. Not to mention her health pool reflects directly onto her stick figure.
09/17/2017 03:12 AMPosted by Vekkul
09/16/2017 07:02 PMPosted by JarekDefiler
She doesn't really have a counter


Stopped here.

Let's be clear:

Tracer has the lowest HP pool of all assassins.
She can easily die in the span of a single Taunt from Varian or any other disable.
Her burst potential is only decent and her sustained damage is weak.
She cannot effectively clear lanes or solo merc camps.
Her only strong function is to flank and kill players who position poorly with low HP.

If Tracer had no counter, she would be enormously popular in Ranked and have a very high win-rate. But she isn't and she doesn't.

Tracer's Counters:

Genji, Cassia, Valeera, Zul'jin, Raynor, Varian, Zarya, Gul'dan, Thrall, Lili, Brightwing, Gazlowe.

Much like Nova, Tracer is great at stomping in QM because there's no draft, and if your team doesn't have a counter or know how to bait and switch, you'll get eaten alive.


Disagree with most of these picks,Thrall and Gazlowe can't reliably hit a good tracer with cc, valeera be spotted and out manuvered easily, raynor gets dived easily, gul'dan would waste his ultimate to kill her, and zuljin might not be capable of killing her before he dies, depending on how low he lowered his health beforehand.

I think Uther, Malfurion, Johana and Stukov would have been better choices for you're counter list, possibly Xul as well, i dont remember done prisons max cast distance, and talking about her inability to clear doesn't mean anything when a team would take a hero who can clear extremely well, like xul.
09/17/2017 04:31 AMPosted by MrEcchi
09/16/2017 07:25 PMPosted by TheArsonist
"Fun" is a subjective term, my friend.

Some men find pleasure in getting kicked between the legs.

Tracer frustrates you. That's fine. Nonetheless, she doesn't frustrate everyone, so you have to ask yourself if this game overall is something you can enjoy or if perhaps another experience is more fitting for you.


With that analogy, playing Tracer is the equivalent of going around and kicking everyone in the nuts. A select few will enjoy it, but most will hate your guts.

Most will learn how to !@#$ing block a kick to the nuts and then drop you to the ground, instead of complaining about it while letting it happen repeatedly.

09/17/2017 10:25 AMPosted by Penguinbowl
Thrall and Gazlowe can't reliably hit a good tracer with cc

Let's start with Gazlowe.
Tracer can't really go into a turret nest. Her health is really low and she has no sustain. All Gazlowe has to do is focus her with trait and she backs off.
Gazlowe also has a lazer she basically can't dodge, and it does a decent chunk of her health especially if you build for lazor.
You will almost never hit with Xplodium unless she dashes to a location she can't see and it happens to be there.
If she ever tries to get close to use her melee, mecha Gaz will do more damage with his auto and the previously mentioned turrets. She drops her ultimate, and mecha Gaz just has to activate mecha trait for armor to reduce damage. Her ultimate is by far her best weapon in team fights, and her melee is easily her best source of ultimate charge.
If you pick Grav Bomb against Tracer, it's because you're confident there will be big team fights where your turrets and other allies will make her useless, so you're going to basically ignore her like she's just an annoying gnat and blow up her team instead.
Does he make her unplayable? No. But he can definitely make her have a bad day.

As for Thrall, he has sustain. He can poke with lighting. It isn't about the wolves, though if she goes for a melee you might be able to.

09/17/2017 10:25 AMPosted by Penguinbowl
possibly Xul as well, i dont remember done prisons max cast distance

Bone Prison cast distance is basically her melee range, but she'll be far gone by the time it triggers. The delay gives her too much time.

Does anyone actually have trouble with Tracer, or are they just complaining because she gets away/ gets a kill when less mobile heroes wouldn't have? Are you not looking at the times where she can't do anything useful when other heroes would have been able to? Each hero is different, with different strengths and weaknesses, I thought that was apparent.
If your idea of countering Tracer (or Genji, but espeically Tracer) is any kind of CC attached to a skill shot then please just stop talking.
09/17/2017 07:08 PMPosted by Fawxkitteh
09/17/2017 04:31 AMPosted by MrEcchi
...

With that analogy, playing Tracer is the equivalent of going around and kicking everyone in the nuts. A select few will enjoy it, but most will hate your guts.

Most will learn how to !@#$ing block a kick to the nuts and then drop you to the ground, instead of complaining about it while letting it happen repeatedly.

09/17/2017 10:25 AMPosted by Penguinbowl
Thrall and Gazlowe can't reliably hit a good tracer with cc

Let's start with Gazlowe.
Tracer can't really go into a turret nest. Her health is really low and she has no sustain. All Gazlowe has to do is focus her with trait and she backs off.
Gazlowe also has a lazer she basically can't dodge, and it does a decent chunk of her health especially if you build for lazor.
You will almost never hit with Xplodium unless she dashes to a location she can't see and it happens to be there.
If she ever tries to get close to use her melee, mecha Gaz will do more damage with his auto and the previously mentioned turrets. She drops her ultimate, and mecha Gaz just has to activate mecha trait for armor to reduce damage. Her ultimate is by far her best weapon in team fights, and her melee is easily her best source of ultimate charge.
If you pick Grav Bomb against Tracer, it's because you're confident there will be big team fights where your turrets and other allies will make her useless, so you're going to basically ignore her like she's just an annoying gnat and blow up her team instead.
Does he make her unplayable? No. But he can definitely make her have a bad day.

As for Thrall, he has sustain. He can poke with lighting. It isn't about the wolves, though if she goes for a melee you might be able to.

09/17/2017 10:25 AMPosted by Penguinbowl
possibly Xul as well, i dont remember done prisons max cast distance

Bone Prison cast distance is basically her melee range, but she'll be far gone by the time it triggers. The delay gives her too much time.

Does anyone actually have trouble with Tracer, or are they just complaining because she gets away/ gets a kill when less mobile heroes wouldn't have? Are you not looking at the times where she can't do anything useful when other heroes would have been able to? Each hero is different, with different strengths and weaknesses, I thought that was apparent.


Still gotta disagree on Gazlowe, or rather what you said about his lazer, turrets are a good point i didn't really think of, but lazer is to, inconsistent, and you sitting back waiting for her, what if they engage with another hero? thats not a good use of time, and it takes to long to charge to be used in the middle of combat, thrall and robo-goblin are good in 1v1 situations but not quite sure if they would be that good in teamfights. Lightning poke is good, but if we do that then i feel alarak would be better, as tracer won't be in a position to trigger many frostwolf stacks and his lightning is more consistent.

Most of the problems people have with tracer are they don''t have a comp that can counter her, letting her run wild, which i feel is just bad design.
09/16/2017 07:02 PMPosted by JarekDefiler
She isn't op, she isn't "broken," but she is simply not fun to play against.
Boo. Hoo. Hoo.
09/16/2017 07:02 PMPosted by JarekDefiler
When playing against her anyways. Most of the OW cast is. I play this game for fun. I play all games for fun, could care less about competitive and ranks and whatnot. So Blizzard, I don't understand why you thought it was a good idea to put her in this game. Must've thought, "Let's take the most annoying and infuriating hero to play against in OW and put her in HoTS! Brilliant!"

She isn't op, she isn't "broken," but she is simply not fun to play against. She doesn't really have a counter (AA heroes die just as fast to her than she does to them.) She is virtually impossible to hit/lock down majority of the time. Her dash charges and cds make her unkillable when used properly. Her mobility is insane. I just don't get how you guys thought this was a good idea.

Same problem with Dva and Genji, but at least they're somewhat manageable. That said, it is not fun having to kill the same hero 3-4 times before they're actually dead. It's also not fun to not be able to kill a hero because they deflect all your team's damage or they literally dash a screen-length's away every fight.

I'm found it harder and harder to enjoy the game with each new OW hero release. So please, for the love of penguin juice pancake chicken salads, really step back and take a look at these heroes before you release them. Think, "Well, this works in an fps, but is it really good for a MOBA in it's current state? Will everyone enjoy this? Is that amount of mobility really healthy? Is having 3 lives on a hero really fun for everyone? Or is it more frustrating than fun?"

For the record, all the other recent hero releases are pretty sweet imo. Like Kel and Garrosh. Haven't played them but they add a fun challenge to the game. I play Stukov a bit, he can be quite strong. Cassia is one of my favs. Haven't tried Mal. But the thing is, these heroes all provide an enjoyable experience for both sides (imo anyways). Tracer, Genji and DVA do not.

Thanks.
tracers don't scare me, its your fault for not watching your position, you can easily fix this and take away her mobility on catching you and the most important fact is you can see tracer coming by better positioning, i would be more worried about genii who can suprise attack you with a swift stirke through terrain it even catches pro's of guard, not tracers who have to waste 3to 4 blinks just to get up to you and takes away her surviablity and ins't instant like swift strike.
Sorry dudes but I love pwning noobs with Tracer
she is so damn fun to play.

And its really easy to counter, just pick 2 or more ranged heroes with fast attack like Tychus, Raynor, valla, etc
09/17/2017 10:29 PMPosted by Razor
Sorry dudes but I love pwning noobs with Tracer
she is so damn fun to play.

And its really easy to counter, just pick 2 or more ranged heroes with fast attack like Tychus, Raynor, valla, etc

Dude, you're evil. Telling the noobs to pick food for Tracer. Kek.

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