Tanks can take a lot of damage. But taking damage is not tanking

General Discussion
Highly Rated
Tanking is

  • Running interference for your squishies (dps/healers) by foiling enemy attempts to kill them (includes body blocking).
  • CC. (Picking overextenders, interrupting channel spells, repositioning enemies)
  • Zoning heroes away from your soft targets or a location you want to defend (boss/obj/fort). Key point sometimes just having vision is a form of zoning. Also other classes can zone as well (i.e.: long range poke heroes, specialists, Tass force wall) so it is not a tank specific action but the tank should definitely be zoning.
  • And being the initiator for engagements (since tanks have the least risk due to their tankiness)
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    Naturally you will take damage doing the above but it's a key distinction that you should not tank for the sake of purely soaking damage (unless you are preventing a critical/killing blow to an ally, against a PVE boss, buying time for your team to close in on an obj/defend a key location or disrupting the enemies ability to close in on a soft target)
    Sometimes that doesnt work though. Ive had games where I have litterally done everything I could and my squishy still dies... mostly because smart players ignore us tanks. Now, some tanks have an easier time than other. Dehaka (i think is a tank) has that drag, Garrosh with his taunt and throw. However, Anub has cocoon (if taken) and his slowing spikes. Sometimes though... the squishy just... doesnt run. It makes me a sad Nerubian when that happens.
    Yeah sometimes there's only so much you can do.... if the people you are supposed to tank lack map awareness and just run around face checking bushes or overextend with no escape option not much you can do there....
    Sometimes the best defense is a strong offense. If I see my squishies running all the hell over the place, I do my best to isolate a good kill target, and hope they collapse as they should.
    tanking is best defined as taking damage when your team mates can deal damage.

    if your team mates arnt dealing damage,then y our not tanking,your just over extending.
    10/04/2017 06:40 AMPosted by tyranidlunch
    tanking is best defined as taking damage when your team mates can deal damage.

    if your team mates arnt dealing damage,then y our not tanking,your just over extending.


    I think it's more that you are putting yourself in a forward position where you are more likely to take damage... but the point is not to take unnecessary damage, if at any point you can dodge or juke you should be doing so.

    The only three instances I can think as a tank where you should intentionally take damage are:

    1. you are blocking a skill shot from landing a critical hit or killing blow on an ally.

    2. You are tanking a PVE boss

    3. You are using massive healing/damage reduction abilities to disrupt or bait the enemy dps while healing through it (parry, adaptation, hardened shield) so your dps can target an enemy or your team can escape or your team can grab a critical objective/boss or to stall for time so they can do so
    I thought tanking meant picking Sgt. Hammer
    Tanking is protecting your team to increase your team's damage output
    Bruising is harassing the enemy team to reduce their damage output
    Neither role is about going full retard and dying

    IMO
    Tanking is

    Running interference for your squishes by foiling enemy attempts to kill them.


    Actually this is what my squishy teammates do in QM so far.
    More generally, tanking is all about controlling a fight. Choosing where and when to start a rumpus, making sure that people stay where they need to be, and not where you do not want them, identifying and isolating high value kill targets, and calling for and successfully implementing a disengage before deaths start racking up are all part of a tank's responsibilities.
    Actually, two things make tank:
    1 - Being able to attract enemy's attention to themself.
    2 - Being able to endure the said attention.

    Everything else is just execution of those two (ie. peeling, zoning, CC, protecting, sustain, ton of HP, armor, engage, disengage, and so on).
    Tank you.
    More generally, tanking is all about controlling a fight. Choosing where and when to start a rumpus, making sure that people stay where they need to be, and not where you do not want them, identifying and isolating high value kill targets, and calling for and successfully implementing a disengage before deaths start racking up are all part of a tank's responsibilities.


    This looks more like a support job since there are tanks and bruisers who don't even have peeling or really poor CC (Varian, Stitches without Bile, Chen, Sonya, Leoric) but are really good at bodyblock while almost all supports can prevent death and/or have tools to disengage.
    10/04/2017 10:09 AMPosted by AkemiSen
    This looks more like a support job since there are tanks and bruisers who don't even have peeling or really poor CC (Varian, Stitches without Bile, Chen, Sonya, Leoric) but are really good at bodyblock while almost all supports can prevent death and/or have tools to disengage.

    I meant more as in enabling a mass retreat, rather than the tank disengaging personally. Bodyblocking while your allies run for cover, taunting a pursuer to open gaps, and zoning out a choke point are all valid team fight disengagement strategies that can be accomplished by almost any tank.

    And for the record, I consider Chen and Sonya as bruisers more than true tanks. Leoric is fairly borderline with his rework.
    You shouldnt take dmg unless your team is dealing it, hopefully more than the enemy team.
    Playing a tank isn't that much different than playing a support. It's mostly about controlling the team fights. Both roles are better served pooling their resources and saving high impact abilities for critical moments.

    Is it better to immediately charge in and pressure the backline, or is it better to absorb a bit of poke waiting for that Valla to step ever so slightly out of position to nail a power slide or a charge/taunt? Or is it better to allow the enemy Valla to be out of position because you *need* that peel when Sonya inevitably dives your backline when you yourself give up your positioning? Maybe if you're playing Garrosh, you want to combo that Valla into your group, and then save your Taunt for when Sonya dives in to save her and starts spinning.

    It's a lot of watching and waiting, hoping the enemy makes a big mistake before you do, then capitalizing on that mistake. A bit "meta" to that, you want to bait the enemies into making a mistake.
    From a Hero Design perspective, this is something we've talked about a lot on the team. In years past the conventional wisdom was that a "tank" had to be hard to kill, and do things that are sufficiently disruptive (damage/CC) that you can't simply ignore them - which in turn allows them to soak damage for their team.

    However, around the time frame between D.Va and Garrosh, we sought to establish a more clear definition of what's required to "tank" for your team and what tools a Warrior needs to do that effectively.

    This isn't a comprehensive list, but I believe we landed on something like the following:
    • Durability/Mitigation (so they're not easy to blow up)
    • Self-sustain (so they can stay in a fight)
    • Peel (so they can protect vulnerable allies)
    • Interrupt (so they can disrupt cast/channeled abilities)


    We've found that Warriors who don't have enough of one or more of these qualities end up being used as bruisers to harass the enemy backline. Most of the time it's "peel" that's lacking, as this is the aspect that wasn't as clearly defined in the past. Even now I'd say it's hard to say precisely where that line is, and that it's subjective based on what other heroes are capable of.

    If you look at someone like Sonya with 2 stuns, you'd think she could be a tank - and indeed to some extent she can, but other aspects of her kit push her to be more aggressive and limit how effective she can be at protecting a squishy backline (compared to someone like Muradin or Arthas). I think this is something we're trying to be much more aware of earlier on in the development and playtesting process for new Warriors. Do we want them to be able to tank? If so, do they have all the necessary tools? Are there aspects of their kit that make it unintentionally more difficult for them to do so?

    This is something I'd encourage all of you to think about (and feel free to disagree with us on!) when discussing whether a Hero can tank for their team, and what they need to be doing to tank effectively.
    I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to leave games because I can't get one person to peel for me as a certain support, like morales or ana or someone vulnerable to divers. Also, you don't have to be a tank to peel.. ppl need to realize just their hero presence or a quick body block can deter a death or wipe.
    Highly Rated
    10/04/2017 11:55 AMPosted by MattVi
    From a Hero Design perspective, this is something we've talked about a lot on the team. In years past the conventional wisdom was that a "tank" had to be hard to kill, and do things that are sufficiently disruptive (damage/CC) that you can't simply ignore them - which in turn allows them to soak damage for their team.

    However, around the time frame between D.Va and Garrosh, we sought to establish a more clear definition of what's required to "tank" for your team and what tools a Warrior needs to do that effectively.

    This isn't a comprehensive list, but I believe we landed on something like the following:
    • Durability/Mitigation (so they're not easy to blow up)
    • Self-sustain (so they can stay in a fight)
    • Peel (so they can protect vulnerable allies)
    • Interrupt (so they can disrupt cast/channeled abilities)


    We've found that Warriors who don't have enough of one or more of these qualities end up being used as bruisers to harass the enemy backline. Most of the time it's "peel" that's lacking, as this is the aspect that wasn't as clearly defined in the past. Even now I'd say it's hard to say precisely where that line is, and that it's subjective based on what other heroes are capable of.

    If you look at someone like Sonya with 2 stuns, you'd think she could be a tank - and indeed to some extent she can, but other aspects of her kit push her to be more aggressive and limit how effective she can be at protecting a squishy backline (compared to someone like Muradin or Arthas). I think this is something we're trying to be much more aware of earlier on in the development and playtesting process for new Warriors. Do we want them to be able to tank? If so, do they have all the necessary tools? Are there aspects of their kit that make it unintentionally more difficult for them to do so?

    This is something I'd encourage all of you to think about (and feel free to disagree with us on!) when discussing whether a Hero can tank for their team, and what they need to be doing to tank effectively.


    An upvote here is an upvote for MattVi.

    Come on Blizz, let us upvote your posts! :)

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