Stronger action on toxic players

General Discussion
Just put in an "thick-skin chat mode" and let players select if they want it or not. Those who do can either be paired with others in that mode, or have their chat only be read by others with that mode. The mode can be toggled.

Trolling, abusive chat and differing opinions are all viewed as the same by the rather inadequate automatic silence system, despite them being vastly different (not to mention all the other things players tend to report under "abusive chat").

I know I #%$@ on others sometimes for being idiotic, as they sometimes #%$@ on me for my moronic plays. I don't mind it and would prefer to be paired with players who aren't thin-skinned.
I don't understand why silenced people can talk on the mic. That's all.
I will again point out the one thing I don't like about the report system that blizz needs to fix before the implement harsher punishments (and is by far a pandemic in the grand master bracket)
THE ENEMY TEAM SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO REPORT YOU FOR ABUSIVE CHAT WHY IS THIS STILL NOT BLOCKED OUT
There does need to be some review of reports. I've seen people abuse the report system in all chat, like folks trying to report people for ridiculous reasons. I saw one guy try to report someone just because a dude said hey guys how it's going lol

Although one report probably doesn't do much, that's one report the receiver didn't need.
04/13/2018 01:32 PMPosted by Adreno
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes-of-the-storm/21701411/heroes-of-the-storm-development-updates-april-12-2018

What does toxic mean?

It you're going to ban a player over toxic behavior he is entitled to understand exactly what you mean by toxic. If you hint at tougher penalties on toxic behavior you are going to get reports about exactly that. And then some about conflicting opinions. Are you going to ban players over an opinion now?

Blizzard has a documented habit of not investigating before applying silence to the reported players and then not considering the appeal procedure at all. A lot of harm can come from a blurry definition of toxic.


It's not rocket science. Be NICE!!
Abusive Chat
Insults, cruelty, or ongoing harassment directed at one or more players.
Hate speech
Real life threats


Okay, that's how Blizzard defines abusive chat? Well I've been called "toxic" many times in draft for saying something like "the enemy team has a lot of dive, we may need a bruiser". Only to be told by my teammates "expletive you, you're a toxic expletive, reported!".

Because people in my ELO (Gold/Plat) usually only want to play ranged damage or if they must a ranged healer, they consider it "toxic" to suggest your draft might not be optimal vs the enemy team. These kind of people want to brawl mid lane and to them anything that requires cooperation is "toxic". I've not been silenced but as people consider discussion regarding drafts "toxic" and will take selfish first picks like Illidan/Nova/Butcher and never consider filling heals or tank, my game has improved by muting all chat to avoid hearing the schoolyard fights that break out between players when a selfish and bad draft inevitably goes wrong.

Aside from the broad definition of what is considered "toxic" behavior, I find it alarming to read here that people are really putting their faith in "machine learning" to make such moral judgment calls. I have friends who have been silenced when they only played with their chat turned off, so I have deep doubts about this new system.

Meanwhile, for seasons after season there have been the same people who say in chat "I'm going to lose this game on purpose", have three wins in their match history, and feed an average of 12 deaths by dying on purpose to enemy towers, they are still in the game.

Also, I have reported a few very obviously offensive user names such as: "Big9enis" and "Ih8ateJews" over a year ago and these people are still using these battletags till this day.

If a "machine learning" automated system can't even catch names like that (even after reports), I very much doubt they will be able to correctly assess toxic behavior in more complex human interactions.
According to what I have experienced first hand it varies between pointing out someone's mistake and calling them stupid for it once all the way up to people starting to trash talk others and "kk reported" you when you talk back to them for their crap.

Consider me a bit skeptical on how Blizzard will handle this with machines...

I dare say i'd take the LoL tribunal over that anyday and hooo boy, was the tribunal a mess.
Depending on the reporting player, "GLHF" is a toxic, cancerous and downright reportable statement.

Solo queuing into QM and being matched with a 4-man premade is sometimes enough to get silenced, in a worst-case scenario.
04/13/2018 05:52 PMPosted by KurtAngle
There does need to be some review of reports. I've seen people abuse the report system in all chat, like folks trying to report people for ridiculous reasons. I saw one guy try to report someone just because a dude said hey guys how it's going lol

Although one report probably doesn't do much, that's one report the receiver didn't need.

Use your brain a little. There are easily 500k report in a day. Who would pay the few hundred workers that it would take to review them? you?

Also it takes like ~50report to get punished, so there are a pretty big room for false reports...
we need stronger action against toxic developement
pathetic people getting butthurt over things that happen during an online video game are the real issue here
just remember, if someone reports you for being toxic, and you werent, the people investigateing will look at your entire chat log.

If you said " you are a terrible player uninstall" 3 weeks before you got the silence,then they will use that against you to justify the ban.

So unless you are an angel,you are going to get the ban.
04/13/2018 01:35 PMPosted by DigitaLegacy
If you have to ask, you're probably toxic.

Not exactly. While some things are very obviously toxic, others aren't and a lot of harmless comments are now considered toxic.

For example, I was given a 24 hour forum suspension because I said I didn't want to play with new accounts. The justification was "harassment" for addressing new players as a group which was completely bogus moderation.

While I agree with most, maybe to some extent all of Blizzard's policies, they tend to move the goalposts a lot and your punishment is largely up to the GM reviewing it.

I'm with the OP, if they're going to issue harsher actions, we deserve a clearer picture on what constitutes toxicity.
There are three types of gamers when they face changes to a reporting system:

1) A large majority of players that are aware of the changes, and they aren't affected because they genuinely have themselves under control... keeping salt (if any) out of voice/text chat and between that player and their monitor.

2) A small group of players that will be upset that these changes don't go far enough to combat toxicity, or get upset when the environment doesn't change.

-and-

3) A small group of players who are going to be upset that they will get punished under the new system for playing the way they always have been.

If you go into these games with a measure of self-control and awareness, you won't have a problem. Things like this are based on a HISTORY of behavior over a period of time. One report alone won't get you thrown into the doghouse, but instead a steady stream of toxic behavior reports will... Blizzard understands that once is an anomaly, twice is a coincidence, and beyond that starts showing a pattern.

So don't give them a pattern obvious enough for a computer program to recognize.
04/13/2018 01:32 PMPosted by Adreno
It you're going to ban a player over toxic behavior he is entitled to understand exactly what you mean by toxic. If you hint at tougher penalties on toxic behavior you are going to get reports about exactly that. And then some about conflicting opinions. Are you going to ban players over an opinion now?

Blizzard has a documented habit of not investigating before applying silence to the reported players and then not considering the appeal procedure at all. A lot of harm can come from a blurry definition of toxic.


OP has a point; HotS players are very sensitive.

Ping someone once and say "you're about to get ganked". They tell you to "!@#$ off, I'll play how I want" then proceed to get ganked and use their death timer to mute and report you.

I don't want to be banned because someone threw a hissy fit over nothing.
04/13/2018 05:52 PMPosted by KurtAngle
There does need to be some review of reports. I've seen people abuse the report system in all chat, like folks trying to report people for ridiculous reasons. I saw one guy try to report someone just because a dude said hey guys how it's going lol

Although one report probably doesn't do much, that's one report the receiver didn't need.

Use your brain a little. There are easily 500k report in a day. Who would pay the few hundred workers that it would take to review them? you?

Also it takes like ~50report to get punished, so there are a pretty big room for false reports...

Perhaps you should take your own advice. It doesn't matter how many it takes, getting falsely reported at all is still one too many.
Also it takes like ~50report to get punished, so there are a pretty big room for false reports...


Some say it's 50 reports, others say it's 25, the fact is Blizzard for obvious reasons does not tell us the exact number. As I said, I have friends who were silenced even though they had all chat disabled.

People often report something they don't like, rather than actual abuse. I had one person in a game lobby the team to report someone because that person was an AFK/Feeder, but they said "report them for abuse, as reporting them for AFK doesn't get them punished". I said we should report them for AFK/Intentionally Dying as the person hadn't been abusive, the reply to this was "report this expletive for abuse too". There is a lot of irresponsible use of the report system which is just as toxic and negative as people who abuse folks in games.

04/14/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Wraithdagger
OP has a point; HotS players are very sensitive.

Ping someone once and say "you're about to get ganked". They tell you to "!@#$ off, I'll play how I want" then proceed to get ganked and use their death timer to mute and report you.


The definition of what is offensive and toxic to people is quite nebulous as you point out. Someone said they had reported me just for asking them to swap lanes as I preferred not to solo soak as the healer. For those who really think machine learning is going to be a more precise judge of toxic behavior for players, I will point out again that just today I have encountered four battletags that are so offensive I can't print them here as they are against forum codes of conduct.

If they are incapable of picking up something so obvious as battletags that are expletives, I will continue to doubt an algorithm will be able to pass accurate judgment on human behaviors.
Blizzard should learn to educate the low skilled playerbase of this game and fix the matchmaking because I believe those are 2 main factors why people are toxic, so many high level and even pro players are toxic u have no idea but of course blizzard caters to the casuals because they bring in more $$$, just another way to hurt the games playerbase.
I feel that ignoring advice and refusing to join voice chat is toxic behavior. will there be harsher punishment for these activities that purposefully ruin my game experience as well?

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