I SURRENDER! WE ARE CLEARLY GONNA LOSE!

General Discussion
Surrender vote button when?
Never gonna happen

07/11/2017 04:33 PMPosted by Alan Dabiri
With a constantly evolving game like Heroes, I've learned to rarely say things like "we'll never do that".

Having said that, a straight up surrender option is one of the things that we probably will never add to this game.

The games are short enough, and there is just too much potential for comebacks. Adding a straight surrender voting system would create more toxicity and it sends the wrong message.

However, I totally agree that leavers can create a poor game experience. So there are a bunch of things we are considering to improve the experience here. "Loss forgiveness" seems like a good addition to the game, and it's one we are actively discussing. There are also other ideas on the table in that same vein.
yea the comeback thing only matters if it is still the case. no longer is it a factor. in the past 50 games i had ONE game where we almost came back. We were behind, our core is almost dead (40%) we then gain the level lead, bring their core down to 5%. they team kill us and finish us off.
(I even tried to get in there as Li ming to just Kamehameha the core (as 5% is nothing) but we still lost.

If games were like that more often, then yes the surrender would be worthless, but many people have been complaining about the game being very snowbally. No longer is comeback as potent as it once was. In most cases, when a team gets a lead, they will retain the lead.
Don't think OP appreciates the irony of demonstrating exactly why a surrender button is such a bad idea.
04/10/2018 11:25 PMPosted by Gashnaw
yea the comeback thing only matters if it is still the case. no longer is it a factor. in the past 50 games i had ONE game where we almost came back. We were behind, our core is almost dead (40%) we then gain the level lead, bring their core down to 5%. they team kill us and finish us off.
(I even tried to get in there as Li ming to just Kamehameha the core (as 5% is nothing) but we still lost.

If games were like that more often, then yes the surrender would be worthless, but many people have been complaining about the game being very snowbally. No longer is comeback as potent as it once was. In most cases, when a team gets a lead, they will retain the lead.
1. I had a lot of comebacks lately.
2. You just kinda described a comeback (a double one).
3. Li-ming can't kamehameha 5% alone.
Never give up, never surrender! ~Galaxy Quest
04/11/2018 01:14 AMPosted by HashtagOrion
Never give up, never surrender! ~Galaxy Quest


References keep me awake at 430 in the morning. Thumbs up!

On topic: Surrender is pointless when the comeback mechanics exist. It sounds more to me that your problem isn't with the inability to surrender but that games feel more snowbally now - which is an entirely different discussion.

Anecdotally, I only recently came back and level leads are a lot more exotic than I ever saw a year ago. I don't have any hard and fast stats on that, though.
04/10/2018 11:26 PMPosted by KOL
Don't think OP appreciates the irony of demonstrating exactly why a surrender button is such a bad idea.
Yeah, his title pretty much answers his own question :)
04/11/2018 12:42 AMPosted by Karabars
04/10/2018 11:25 PMPosted by Gashnaw
yea the comeback thing only matters if it is still the case. no longer is it a factor. in the past 50 games i had ONE game where we almost came back. We were behind, our core is almost dead (40%) we then gain the level lead, bring their core down to 5%. they team kill us and finish us off.
(I even tried to get in there as Li ming to just Kamehameha the core (as 5% is nothing) but we still lost.

If games were like that more often, then yes the surrender would be worthless, but many people have been complaining about the game being very snowbally. No longer is comeback as potent as it once was. In most cases, when a team gets a lead, they will retain the lead.
1. I had a lot of comebacks lately.
2. You just kinda described a comeback (a double one).
3. Li-ming can't kamehameha 5% alone.

In avatar form she can.
Hopefully never.

I just had an epic match. By epic, I mean horror-inducing. I would have won the game 6 times over if our Artanis had crossed the center line of the map at least once.

I doubled every stat of the nearest player, ally and enemy. Half the deaths of the next nearest (except for old 30k hero damage Artanis after 40 minute match.)

I am sure the QM gods were setting me up for a loss. I clenched my ring, turned on hard mode and said "not this time."

15 minutes in, down 2 keeps and watching Artanis split push the only lane with a keep still on it. Meanwhile the enemy winning Protector was marching down the lane. A solid Flamestrike hit brings 2 enemies down to 30%. Pyroblast the Gul'dan, walk away. Ally Nova Triple taps the same Gul'dan (ffs, even you Nooba? Just run over and snipe the other enemy, jaysus...)

Get the Protector down at our keep rubble, a neat living bomb gets mega value. We wipe them.

Ping fort, then keep. The enemy still has all their structures (top fort was at about 25%. Artanis was driving the first protector we won and just walked away for no reason.) Artanis slow walks to the turret camp, kills it, leaves the turret. Turns around, goes back to get it. Walks back over to top mercs, but recalls halfway through for mana.

By this point my ring is very firmly clenched and the fury of the Sunwell is overflowing. 1 come-back win position lost.

We find the enemy split, trying to take healing camp in the center. Pyroblast Gul'dan dead again, Nova gets the Li Ming. We are level 22 now. I ping the core. Artanis is at home, hitting minions. Second win solution lost.

Objective time again. Bot. We catch enemy healer, I do everything in my power to be driving this time. Blast fort, burn down bot keep. Enemy finally musters a defense. I move between mid fort and keep, catch 3 enemies and kill them when they didn't realise protector hurts at 36 minutes in. Take fort, then 85% of keep before it times out.

Artanis? Top lane, clearing minions near our keep. He was pinging retreat for the entire team fight. I ignore him, finish the keep with flamestrikes.

We can't end, because we are 4, enemy is respawning. 3rd win solution gone.

We fart around for the next couple minutes, catching the enemy and staggering their deaths. Can't finish, Artanis is bot now clearing minions. 4th, 5th, 6th win solutions lost.

Next objective - nano-boosted pyroblast for the win. I take the objective and drive it home at the 40 minute mark.

Comeback from 5 structures down with 4v5 every fight.

No to surrender button.
04/11/2018 02:53 AMPosted by Gashnaw
In avatar form she can.
Next to the enemy team who just wiped out your teammates? I think not. But if she can, maybe @Gashnaw messed it up or something.
04/11/2018 01:14 AMPosted by HashtagOrion
Never give up, never surrender! ~Galaxy Quest


great movie
Please describe the comeback mechanic and please please dont say win a team fight or objective.

guy1:"how do you comeback?"
guy2:"win."

Me: o_o
OP got fenixed.
04/10/2018 11:11 PMPosted by Faellin
Never gonna happen

07/11/2017 04:33 PMPosted by Alan Dabiri
With a constantly evolving game like Heroes, I've learned to rarely say things like "we'll never do that".

Having said that, a straight up surrender option is one of the things that we probably will never add to this game.

The games are short enough, and there is just too much potential for comebacks. Adding a straight surrender voting system would create more toxicity and it sends the wrong message.

However, I totally agree that leavers can create a poor game experience. So there are a bunch of things we are considering to improve the experience here. "Loss forgiveness" seems like a good addition to the game, and it's one we are actively discussing. There are also other ideas on the table in that same vein.


How is this response just not a sticky on the top of the page, Titled Surrender Vote when? ......
If there's one thing I miss from LoL it's the surrender button. 5 minutes in when we've lost two team fights are down 3 levels and refuse to play smart, hug towers, avoid the enemy team, and try to out-farm them? Yeah, surrender out of that waste of time, please.

It wouldn't be so bad if the enemy team would go ahead and win in 5 more minutes, but almost every game is 20-30 minutes long.
i had a game where enemy butcher got stacked at 3:30 min into the game.... we played defensive all game, let zuljin stack up some, and managed to catch up at level 21 and then win when butcher was 450 stacks.
Comeback mechanics are real.

04/11/2018 05:22 AMPosted by Dahak
Please describe the comeback mechanic and please please dont say win a team fight or objective.


the comback mechanic is that the loosing team get more exp per kill the further the level difference between them is such that a 1 for 1 trade is worth more to the loosing team then the winning one. its why late game heroes are a thing because they can closer the distance via a late game power spike.
04/11/2018 05:22 AMPosted by Dahak
Please describe the comeback mechanic and please please dont say win a team fight or objective.

guy1:"how do you comeback?"
guy2:"win."

Me: o_o


Just to add to what a previous poster stated about gaining an xp boost for being behind - its usually a good idea to soak like your life depends on it as safely as possible to catch up and avoid evenly numbered fights if you can help it.
04/11/2018 05:46 AMPosted by Petersen
It wouldn't be so bad if the enemy team would go ahead and win in 5 more minutes, but almost every game is 20-30 minutes long.


If your game goes to 20+ minutes, it's a close enough game that comebacks are possible. A real stomp is usually well over by the 15 minute mark (if that).
04/11/2018 05:52 AMPosted by Yukie
i had a game where enemy butcher got stacked at 3:30 min into the game.... we played defensive all game, let zuljin stack up some, and managed to catch up at level 21 and then win when butcher was 450 stacks.
Comeback mechanics are real.

04/11/2018 05:22 AMPosted by Dahak
Please describe the comeback mechanic and please please dont say win a team fight or objective.


the comback mechanic is that the loosing team get more exp per kill the further the level difference between them is such that a 1 for 1 trade is worth more to the loosing team then the winning one. its why late game heroes are a thing because they can closer the distance via a late game power spike.
You basically said"win"
Had games where the enemy was such a tight unit we could not kill them. Not a one. It happens.

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