Chromie has so many safeties.

General Discussion
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Huge attack range
Time Stop
Stasis/Quick Heartstone
Temporal Loop/Slowing Sands

I think this situation is overwhelming.

Edit: I forgot the "Vision Range/Detecting stealth and revealing an area" advantage of her. Thats a safety too.
I agree fully and yet she is perfectly balanced.

Chromie has no targeted skills, making her damage 100% avoidable.
And without hitting anything, she gets no resets, making her even more helpless.
the only thing i cant stand is the quick heartstone
you are going for her? Ok nearly instant teleport in the face haha
05/21/2018 07:20 AMPosted by Tauri
Time Stop


Only happens if you step into the trap, of which she has only one.

05/21/2018 07:20 AMPosted by Tauri
Stasis/Quick Heartstone


Can only have one, not both. Neither are THAT strong.

05/21/2018 07:20 AMPosted by Tauri
Temporal Loop/Slowing Sands


Can only have one...

On such a basis, I'd like to call a bunch of other heroes overpowered. Zeratul has both a Void Prison and a damage-ability of Might of the Nathrezim? OP!

Azmodan has both a huge damage boost and a summon a bunch of minions? OP!

Hanzo has both a long range stun and a short range massive AoE? OP! And he can choose between different escape upgrades at 13?! Overpowered!!!

And so on.
To be fair, Blizzard has said they're taking a look at Chromie -- particularly at lowering her range a little bit and maybe making her W target location visible.
05/21/2018 08:12 AMPosted by Vekkul
To be fair, Blizzard has said they're taking a look at Chromie -- particularly at lowering her range a little bit and maybe making her W target location visible.


She needs some number tweaks I would say (level 50+ Chromie) but I don't think that showing her W location is good for the game. She already has trouble chunking high mobility heroes. Imagine on Valla or Genji or Tracer how easy it would be to eliminate a massive amount of Chromie's dmg by seeing her W and just vaulting or blinking to the side.

A lot of what makes me a good Chromie player is that I use predictive shooting. I think of "if that were me, and I heard Chromie's attack, where would I dodge to" and that's where I "lead" my shot.

That's going to become dead content if the person knows I am leading my shot.
05/21/2018 07:20 AMPosted by Tauri
Huge attack range
Time Stop
Stasis/Quick Heartstone
Temporal Loop/Slowing Sands

I think this situation is overwhelming.


It's overwhelming at lower levels of play but at higher level's it's fine.

Good players are able to predict where chromie will target, leading her to do ZERO damage.

Time stop requires you to have no real awareness of the map and lack of chromie knowledge (it isn't difficult to guess where she might be placing the traps).

quick hearth can be interrupted last second easily and stasis won't save her from a !@#$%^-*.

slowing sands constantly drains her mana and only affects a specific area. temporal loop can be made useless with tons of abilities as well as just bullying chromie away.
Neither are THAT strong.

Her stasis is literally the strongest in the game at 7 seconds. It makes her completely invincible against most divers because they can't afford to stay in the backline of the enemy team for 7 seconds.

Only happens if you step into the trap, of which she has only one.

Chromie gets 3 traps if she takes Andorhal, the traps are invisible, and there's basically no counterplay. Chromie simply stands over a trap then blasts you for 3000 damage.

In my opinion, Chromie should have the same ice block as everyone else and her time traps should be visible like Junkrat traps are.

There should be counterplay to Dragon's Breath other than "walk randomly and hope Chromie misses" and counterplay to Temporal Loop other than "pray my healer has cleanse".

I'm sure it's very fun for the Chromie to play shooting gallery from across the screen. It's extremely unfun for everyone else dodging invisible nukes and invisible time traps.
Supported by Gillyweed.
05/21/2018 07:29 AMPosted by Floppy
I agree fully and yet she is perfectly balanced.

Chromie has no targeted skills, making her damage 100% avoidable.
And without hitting anything, she gets no resets, making her even more helpless.


"Just dodge skillshots". Typical HotS forum idiotcrafting - because HotS is played in an entirely terrain-free open field with no cc, where you don't have to control certain points on many maps, and Chromie herself doesn't have a near-permanent slowing field and stasis traps.
05/21/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Crimson
Her stasis is literally the strongest in the game at 7 seconds. It makes her completely invincible against most divers because they can't afford to stay in the backline of the enemy team for 7 seconds.


In this case changing it from 7 seconds to 3 seconds wouldn't make a difference at all. The divers can't survive being there 3 seconds either.
To begin with the Stasis talent is quite weak for chromie as unlike the other heroes that has the weaker versions of it, Jaina and Nazeebo, so does Chromie have literally 0 short range abilities that she could use defensively/offensive when she gets out. At best she can throw out a W and a time trap, neither of which will help force someone away or kill them, lest they're very low health and the W randomly hits.
The problem is that for Chromie's stasis she needs her team to be able to push away the enemy or it'll be completely pointless. And since Chromie is literally out of play for 7 seconds, it means the team will have to win a sudden 4vs5 without losing ground, while protecting the area Chromie is in.
The only times I take this talent is when I need to survive a nuke or inevitable damage like a Nova nuking me or Pyroblast.

05/21/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Crimson
Chromie gets 3 traps if she takes Andorhal, the traps are invisible, and there's basically no counterplay. Chromie simply stands over a trap then blasts you for 3000 damage.


Yes, she has that at level 18, it's a storm talent, meant to be stronger than the rest. And no counterplay? That is utter nonsense.
Is Tassadar's huge AoE reveal not a counterplay? Hanzo's sonic arrow? Murky's Fish Eye reveal? Or murky in general who can go in and eat up time traps and just go invulnerable? What about heroes who can go into a time trap without danger like Li Ming, who can teleport before a combo has a chance to hit her when she steps into a time trap? What about heroes with strong anti magic abilities/movement like Genji who can disjoint ulti, deflect traps and use his jump twice for 50% magic armor? What about pure AoE, like a cho'gall firing off dozens of spells that will randomly kill time traps (not to mention he has a Reveal Eye as a base ability)? Or Raynor, who also still has reveal drone.
Or what about plain long range damage? Azmodan doesn't care about time traps. He just throws Q's out from way farther than Chromie's range that'll take away 1/3 of Chromie's health and destroy any time traps it happened to hit. Or what about level 20 Stage Dive from ETC which has a massive radius which damage will destroy time traps?

05/21/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Crimson
There should be counterplay to Dragon's Breath other than "walk randomly and hope Chromie misses" and counterplay to Temporal Loop other than "pray my healer has cleanse".


There is plenty of counterplay to it. Get out of bronze league.
05/21/2018 08:12 AMPosted by Vekkul
To be fair, Blizzard has said they're taking a look at Chromie -- particularly at lowering her range a little bit and maybe making her W target location visible.

W'd need a massive buff for that to work. Either AoE or speed. It's already difficult to hit a competent player if they're not surprised.
Since her winrate seems to be quite balanced and you are talking nerfs here, what are the supposed buffs to offset the negative impact on her balance? If you lower her survivability, range and make it harder for her to hit we either need to greatly reduce the wind up and/or cooldown of her abilities or have to increase her damage. Other than that their is only a full rework.
05/21/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Brot
Since her winrate seems to be quite balanced and you are talking nerfs here, what are the supposed buffs to offset the negative impact on her balance? If you lower her survivability, range and make it harder for her to hit we either need to greatly reduce the wind up and/or cooldown of her abilities or have to increase her damage. Other than that their is only a full rework.


They didn't think that far. people simply want chromie nerfed so she becomes another bargain bin hero a la raynor who almost nobody plays because they are barely more than glorified minions.

They don't care about her potentially being made unviable, they would rather that happen then be faced with the idea that they just aren't skilled enough at the game.
05/21/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Brot
Since her winrate seems to be quite balanced and you are talking nerfs here, what are the supposed buffs to offset the negative impact on her balance? If you lower her survivability, range and make it harder for her to hit we either need to greatly reduce the wind up and/or cooldown of her abilities or have to increase her damage. Other than that their is only a full rework.

Considering the average "hero OP" thread on this forum boils down to "x hero killed me. therefore, they're a problem" there's not a lot of point taking most of them seriously.
05/21/2018 12:10 PMPosted by uGeeGee
05/21/2018 07:29 AMPosted by Floppy
I agree fully and yet she is perfectly balanced.

Chromie has no targeted skills, making her damage 100% avoidable.
And without hitting anything, she gets no resets, making her even more helpless.


"Just dodge skillshots". Typical HotS forum idiotcrafting - because HotS is played in an entirely terrain-free open field with no cc, where you don't have to control certain points on many maps, and Chromie herself doesn't have a near-permanent slowing field and stasis traps.

Dodging skillshots is more about being unpredictable yourself, than truly knowing what she is going to do next. Don't run in a straight line with a constant speed, Don't just stand in minion waves, in the middle of an objective, or in an obvious location to hearth. Do use displacement abilities to disrupt her and assist allies.

In addition, just as Chromie has people on her team assisting her, you have people on your team who can help you. Some of the healers can Cleanse the Temporal Loop, and if I am tanking and see someone vulnerable get Looped, I will go and eat the Sand Blast for them. Godswapping a Chromie into my team is typically a death sentence for her. And even though people dislike Genji and Tracer, they can do a fantastic job of harassing her, or just killing her outright.
Chromie is a tricky one because there's no single element of her kit that pushes her over the line in terms of feeling frustrating to play against. She's also pretty balanced overall, so simply making her weaker isn't a great option.

Put simply, the challenge for us here is-
  • Change her enough that she feels noticeably more interactive for opponents.
  • Don't change her so much that she loses her identity - she should still feel like Chromie.
  • Figure out how to compensate loss of power from the removal of frustrating elements, without pushing her right back over the line in a different way.

There are many ways we could address the first and third items on that list, but the second one is where things get a bit more difficult. So with that I'd pose the question to you Chromie players out there:

Which parts of Chromie do you feel are core to her identity and which would you feel comfortable seeing changed (assuming she got something else in return)? Is it her long range that defines her? Her burst damage? Her ability to scale hard if she does well on her Quest? Her disruption via Time Traps and Slowing Sands? Some combination of these or something else entirely?
05/21/2018 10:03 AMPosted by TheDutchMan
05/21/2018 08:12 AMPosted by Vekkul
To be fair, Blizzard has said they're taking a look at Chromie -- particularly at lowering her range a little bit and maybe making her W target location visible.


She needs some number tweaks I would say (level 50+ Chromie) but I don't think that showing her W location is good for the game. She already has trouble chunking high mobility heroes. Imagine on Valla or Genji or Tracer how easy it would be to eliminate a massive amount of Chromie's dmg by seeing her W and just vaulting or blinking to the side.

A lot of what makes me a good Chromie player is that I use predictive shooting. I think of "if that were me, and I heard Chromie's attack, where would I dodge to" and that's where I "lead" my shot.

That's going to become dead content if the person knows I am leading my shot.


If it had an indicator with current delay, you wouldn't have to be Genji or Valla to dodge it. You could be literally anyone aside from D.Va with boosters on CD and easily walk out of the obvious circle during the generous 2 seconds Chromie's W takes to land.

Of course, they could reduce the delay to prevent that from happening - in which case HOTS would give a not-so-warm welcome to yet another ability which royally screws over immobile heroes while being useless against mobile ones. Because that's what we need - even more incentive to pick mobile heroes over immobile ones.
05/21/2018 06:50 PMPosted by MattVi
Chromie is a tricky one because there's no single element of her kit that pushes her over the line in terms of feeling frustrating to play against. She's also pretty balanced overall, so simply making her weaker isn't a great option.

Put simply, the challenge for us here is-
  • Change her enough that she feels noticeably more interactive for opponents.
  • Don't change her so much that she loses her identity - she should still feel like Chromie.
  • Figure out how to compensate loss of power from the removal of frustrating elements, without pushing her right back over the line in a different way.

There are many ways we could address the first and third items on that list, but the second one is where things get a bit more difficult. So with that I'd pose the question to you Chromie players out there:

Which parts of Chromie do you feel are core to her identity and which would you feel comfortable seeing changed (assuming she got something else in return)? Is it her long range that defines her? Her burst damage? Her ability to scale hard if she does well on her Quest? Her disruption via Time Traps and Slowing Sands? Some combination of these or something else entirely?


The one thing for me that sets her apart from the rest of the Mages is her infinite scaling for hitting skillshots. I think her reliance (and reward) for consistently hitting her skillshots is what defines her the most. After all, a good Chromie player can seemingly peer into the future to see where you're going to be for her skillshots :) Whatever you decide to change, keep that aspect intact and I think most Chromie players will be happy.

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