to the people that say Chromie takes skill

General Discussion
07/22/2018 07:26 AMPosted by ilkbailk
if kel'thuzad combo's were consistently easy to hit he wouldn't have a 37% win rate in silver league, and 54.5% in masters???


I play all the mages (Chromie (40), Jaina (27), Li Ming (17), Kel`thuzad (17) and Kael´thas (16)), and out of all of them Chromie is by far the hardest to hit consistently even though i have the most games/experience with her.

Just accept the fact that winrates say pretty much nothing without taking a hell of additional factors in.
Yep there are definitely heroes that are noob stompers chromie nova valeera butcher and so on. Sorry to hear you are a frustrated noob.
07/22/2018 07:39 AMPosted by TheCeltic
07/22/2018 07:23 AMPosted by ilkbailk
to the people down voting, please explain to me why Chromie gets a lower win rate in masters than silver unlike most other heroes, and certainly all heroes with a higher skill cap.


You do realize that some of the more difficult heroes like Alarak, Tyrande, and Probius have higher winrates in Bronze than in Masters, right? Chromie is not the only one.

And it does not say anything about how difficult a hero is, because the rules that apply to Bronze are not the same as the rules that apply to Masters.


i have no idea what is up with the bronze league stats to be honest it actually applies with a lot of heroes. i mean if you look silver vs masters, alarak does have higher win % in masters. although not sure he's the most viable hero. i know as soon as alarak get's any stacks i prioritize his death far more. doubt low levels players que onto that.

as for bronze a lot of heroes have some really wonky unexpected win rates, and i don't classify probius as high skill. to be honest my actual guess at the reason why is that bronze league players tend not to be invested in the game enough to install hotslogs. as such there is a pretty small sample size. 8 games played with cho'gall is pretty hard to draw a win rate from. i would guess the players recording in bronze league would be a higher proportion of smurf accounts, than bronze league as a whole. this might explain some of it. i imagine smurfs are more likely to play a hero like alarak, as i imagine getting 200% + sadism and 1 shotting bronze league players is what smurfs are really into..
Chromie is tough to use. Why don't you try using her and seeing how it feels?
07/22/2018 06:11 AMPosted by ilkbailk
if you look at Chromies stats on hots logs you'll find her peak win % is in fact in silver league. this is pretty uncommon, as win rates tend to rise very slightly as you go up the leagues.


I agree with the OP.

Chromie is a weirdly designed hero. Silver players playing against silver players get a lot more mileage from Chromie than silver players playing KT against silver players.

It should be obvious to anyone looking at their designs that it would be the case. It all deals with the notification of skill shots. Even a silver player can learn to walk out of a circle before it xplodes. w/o that indication for chromie its all about being unpredictable, which silvers will struggle with.
07/22/2018 07:49 AMPosted by rcw
07/22/2018 07:26 AMPosted by ilkbailk
if kel'thuzad combo's were consistently easy to hit he wouldn't have a 37% win rate in silver league, and 54.5% in masters???


I play all the mages (Chromie (40), Jaina (27), Li Ming (17), Kel`thuzad (17) and Kael´thas (16)), and out of all of them Chromie is by far the hardest to hit consistently even though i have the most games/experience with her.

Just accept the fact that winrates say pretty much nothing without taking a hell of additional factors in.


and i would have to guess you are not a silver league player?? i would guess you almost never see 200 stack chromies, which people like to complain about 1 shotting them on this forum. then you hear the people reply getting 200 stacks takes serious skill, when it almost NEVER happens outside of low leagues. which is my argument.
07/22/2018 07:52 AMPosted by Zukka
Chromie is tough to use. Why don't you try using her and seeing how it feels?


search my profile please. Chromie is my highest level hero.
07/22/2018 06:11 AMPosted by ilkbailk
personally i think a quest that relies more on your opponents making mistakes than you being skillful should just be removed from the game.

I disagree. I believe that quests or abilities that punish poor play or positioning are healthier for lower rank players as it gives them strong incentive to improve. If they are forced to rethink where they stand, whether or not they should learn to stutter-step, and when they should back off, they might actually improve and move up the ranks. Changing the game to cater to their lack of skill will simply ensure they will always lack skill.

Not everything in life or video games is fair, nor should it be. Learning to deal with difficult situations (not that I think playing against Chromie is truly difficult) is how one gets better. Having both positive incentives to improve one's play, and punishment when one fails to do so, isn't always a bad thing.
07/22/2018 07:54 AMPosted by ilkbailk
and i would have to guess you are not a silver league player??


No idea, don´t play ranked.

07/22/2018 07:54 AMPosted by ilkbailk
i would guess you almost never see 200 stack chromies


No, because even in the oh so terrible QM 80%+ of players actually try to evade those shots.
07/22/2018 08:14 AMPosted by rcw
07/22/2018 07:54 AMPosted by ilkbailk
and i would have to guess you are not a silver league player??


No idea, dont play ranked.

07/22/2018 07:54 AMPosted by ilkbailk
i would guess you almost never see 200 stack chromies


No, because even in the oh so terrible QM 80%+ of players actually try to evade those shots.


yes, but people often complain about the Chromie quest on here. the most common reply is the Chromie is really good, she's a really high skill cap hero. what i'm saying is she's not, and she relies on people making mistakes which is bad design. I want to be the main deciding factor in how fast i complete my quests. i want it to be that if i'm having a really good game i finish my quest fast, not if i'm vsing a really bad team i finish my quest fast.

the former happens far more often for Kel'thuzad/Hanzo with well designed quests
I think what the OP is trying to say is not that Chromie doesn't require any skill. He's trying to say that the people getting extremely high Chromie stacks are not extremely skilled. They are often just versing bad players.

https://i.imgur.com/uTBtbQl.jpg

This for example is a screenshot from a game i played. You can see that i quickly finished my quest by level 4. The reason for this was more so exceptional stupidity on the part of my opponents, than wicked skills on my part.
07/22/2018 08:24 AMPosted by warden
I think what the OP is trying to say is not that Chromie doesn't require any skill. He's trying to say that the people getting extremely high Chromie stacks are not extremely skilled. They are often just versing bad players.

https://i.imgur.com/uTBtbQl.jpg

This for example is a screenshot from a game i played. You can see that i quickly finished my quest by level 4. The reason for this was more so exceptional stupidity on the part of my opponents, than wicked skills on my part.


yes, what i'm trying to say is that to do what you did was much more on your opponents not moving or dodging, than you being a god tier Chromie. i'm assuming by the comps that is quick match game, but my point stands. if completing your quest is far more about your opponents screw ups, than your success that is bad design.
@rcw does it not bother you as a Chromie player that when you get a load of stacks it's more on your opponents than you?
07/22/2018 08:39 AMPosted by ilkbailk
@rcw does it not bother you as a Chromie player that when you get a load of stacks it's more on your opponents than you?


No, because the people i play against are evading and fighting back; so getting a lot of stacks is a sign of skill.

Easy quest completion is also always with the healp of the enemy, people that just stand around get you Jaina´s and Kel´s quest even faster than Chromies.

EDIT: To be more clear, there is not a single hero in the game that does not profit from enemies behaving dumb; and Chromie isn´t even the biggest beneficiary of dumb behaviour.
Because Chromie punishes poor positioning and awareness, I.E. Silver and Bronze players. Better players make it harder to land because they actually look around their hero. It's like saying snipers in FPS take no skill because they can easily headshot targets that stand still.
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No idea, dont play ranked.

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No, because even in the oh so terrible QM 80%+ of players actually try to evade those shots.


yes, but people often complain about the Chromie quest on here. the most common reply is the Chromie is really good, she's a really high skill cap hero. what i'm saying is she's not, and she relies on people making mistakes which is bad design. I want to be the main deciding factor in how fast i complete my quests. i want it to be that if i'm having a really good game i finish my quest fast, not if i'm vsing a really bad team i finish my quest fast.

the former happens far more often for Kel'thuzad/Hanzo with well designed quests


If you want to know how good you are, try to reach máster and then you will know if it takes skills or not, i can reach 180 stacks in some games (mostly in games like garden, dragón shire, volskaya, because when people rides the objective they tend to tank a lot and even if they try to avoid you can anticipate how to hit something that big that tries to destroy your base) in others is harder to complete, once you reach máster league you will notice that you need to predict really well to hit your sand blasts, and that heroes composition in the other team matter a lot (its more harder to gain stacks if they have few melee héroes, range héroes tends to move more unpredictable at first lvl soaking phase because they know that a chromie with no stacks is not that big threath).

So for you saying that chromie only needs opponents to be dumb to have good play no, it doesnt need only that, it benefits both of your opponent and your skills, if you don't have good prediction, then when you reach higher leagues you will notice, in lower leagues is far more easy (just like with butcher and he isnt such a complicated hero to use, just because in lower leagues people die all the time while in máster getting your stacks gets dificult).

A silver chromie can do a good job in his league, but when he rises he will need to improve her game, otherwise she is not going to have a lot of chances
I feel like playing chromie takes more of a lack of skill on the opposing team than anything.

in silver, where people run in straight lines and act predictable and do things like draft alex against chromie, sure her win rate goes up.
as players get more skilled, there is less you can do with a chromie as it becomes a guessing game until your R is off cooldown.
this lines up with:

A. chromie taking a lot of skill
B. chromie being pretty well balanced since she takes more effort to do decently at higher ranks.

if you look at pro play, her winrate is even lower than silver league simply because top players know how to avoid her abilities consistently.
07/22/2018 07:15 AMPosted by ilkbailk
yes at higher levels it obviously takes more skill to land, but what i'm talking about is what's more important. it's harder to land Kelthuzad hits, scatter arrows and any skill shot on high level players.
not really. Those shots are much faster. Chromie has a whole second delay for her Q. It is insanely predictable to anyone with the slightest modicum of experience playing against her. And more importantly, they are such slow shots that the 'higher level' players have time to dodge. KTZ and Hanzo are fast fast shots. You put a KTZ next to a chromie, and he can cast four spells and kill two people in the time it takes for chromie's W to land.

See, at higher levels, people tend to take chromie as a zoning hero. She doesn't even have to cast a single spell - it's the threat that counts to keep opponents from being too aggressive. And the reason why they won't be too aggressive is because they know the moment they stop paying attention to chromie to focus on someone else, chromie will blow them up. That's what I call "not taking pointless fights". Mages in general, but especially an infinitely-stacking mage like chromie, thrives on pointless fights. All those ridiculous things they do in silver like fight 5-man mid-lane for two minutes, or fight over watch towers, or fight over nothing at all - those are just more stacks for chromie.

But if you don't fight when you don't have to, then when you do have to fight, chromie is going to be far behind on stacks, her damage will be less impressive, and on top of all that, she's chromie which means the team that picked her sacrificed PvE for PvP. Put mercs in two lanes and her team will struggle to clear them before a wall starts taking damage. Keep that up and they may even be forced to skip objectives because their lanes are so far behind.

I know "not fighting" seems boring, but it works. Try it. You'll probably be frustrated that your allies won't participate in your "not fighting" idea, thus granting chromie ample stacks anyway. But keep at it and you'll eventually get to the level where your allies already know not to fight pointlessly.

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