Was the stealth rework a failure?

General Discussion
[quote="207659980053"]As someone who played a lot of stealth, they ruined it. I'm not talking about it from a balance perspective (though I could write a whole essay on how it messed that up), I'm talking about from a gameplay/fun perspective.

Anybody who was any good with stealth pre-rework knows that while you should never rely entirely on your stealth, it makes for an excellent tool/toy in many situations, and the backbone of its effect was being hard to keep track of. Unfortunately, that advantage was outright removed with the rework.

Valeera was my favorite stealth hero after I picked her up, and I played her heavily. I always enjoyed baiting enemy heroes into traps or leading them on wild goose chases through the map while my team captured an objective or ganked someone in a different lane. My book of tricks was long and fun to use. Cloak and double back as you pass through a bush or around a corner. Decloak if they lose track of you to help them reacquire you. Separate them and get the jump on the lowest health ones. Pick them off one by one. I've occasionally soloed entire teams like this before because they let me bait them too far and pick them off. Far more common was for me to lead them into ambushes and ganks. Less than the high burst damage, the subterfuge was the best/most fun part of playing a stealth character for me.

Unfortunately, the clear-as-day visibility of stealth now makes that all but impossible against anyone but the least skilled players in the game. And at that point there's no challenge in it anyway, so even when I occasionally run into them it wouldn't be any fun anyway.

So there you have it, the reason I won't touch stealth heroes anymore even if they eventually manage to properly balance them. Really hoping they fix it, but then again when the devs "fix" something like that they usually end up breaking it worse...


This, I used to do this as Nova when I was a Nova main. Didn't have ghost protocol so positioning was super important. Why is positioning important as old stealth? Well! I'll tell you why! Before popping out of stealth, you had to note where everyone was, where your exits were, and what the risk of attacking your target would look like.

For instance, Butcher is rotating down to my target? Need to note that, otherwise, I'd be caught with my pants down trying to burst a target while I'm vulnerable to someone who will slaughter me in 2 hits.

Racking up kills meant opponents were tilted. While I didn't have stuns as Nova, people hated me enough that they'd stop chasing an ally just to attack a decoy because they thought it was me. I could peel without stuns and it was great.

I also used the double back tactic as well. Run into a bush, run back out the way I came and the enemies would be blindly running toward my base because that's where they thought I was going lol.

The element of surprise is gone now. Nova is just a subpar single target mage with an unreliable escape. I think that's what I loved about it most before, the element of surprise. You don't really get that now. Sure, I can shoot from a bush but so can every other hero. What does Nova have now that every other hero doesn't? Nova is my highest leveled hero and I haven't touched her in a year, despite leveling other heroes.

I feel that they removed what makes stealth unique and now it's "at least you can't be targeted by point and click abilities or be seen on the mini-map".

cooooooolllll....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
08/06/2018 12:37 AMPosted by CheakyTurtle
08/06/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Leadblast
Her stealth isn't even a tool for escape. Any fat tank like Johanna or Garrosh (or basically anyone, tbh) has ways to deal with Nova and render "stealth as an escape" completely pointless.

She became worse than pre-rework Raynor in quite a few ways. By itself, stealth only works if you stand still for a few seconds, and no one in the enemy team saw you sitting there, and then you hope they pass by so you can ambush them. Of course, the chances of this working 100%, on anything past bronze tiers, are slim as hair.

"Not relying on stealth" for a weak ranged assassin who has basically no perks whatsoever (unlike Zeratul who has a crapload of mobility, waveclear and other utility value), and who requires tankier teammates for her to work properly makes about as much sense as Tyrael's trait. I guess stealth still makes you fully invisible on the enemy's minimaps, but honestly, not the biggest strategic advantage off it, so who gives a crap about that.

Mada mada dane; you still have lots to work on.


If you are playing as Nova and you let johanna and garrosh get close to you it's your decision making that is the problem.


You don't understand, do you? Nova has no way to protect herself from a tank, and obviously doesn't have the power to kill them on her own either. How do you intend to stop Johanna from walking all the way to you and beating you up? Nova can't do that. Her hardest cc move is Pinning Shot, which even for a slow is pathetic. Even old Raynor, weak as he was, was better at pushing troublemakers out of his way.

You're the true problem.
08/06/2018 12:52 AMPosted by Leadblast
08/06/2018 12:37 AMPosted by CheakyTurtle
...

If you are playing as Nova and you let johanna and garrosh get close to you it's your decision making that is the problem.


You don't understand, do you? Nova has no way to protect herself from a tank, and obviously doesn't have the power to kill them on her own either. How do you intend to stop Johanna from walking all the way to you and beating you up? Nova can't do that. Her hardest cc move is Pinning Shot, which even for a slow is pathetic.

You're the true problem.


Nova honestly since her release has had just a really bad kit and mechanics.
She is a poorly designed hero
She would be better off deleted, and re-released as a new hero.
Her design is total garbage.
Stealth should not be the blame for her being one of the worst heros Blizz has ever created.

The only thing she was ever good at was killing Silver level players in QM in 5 v 5 assassin games.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

If you are playing as Nova and you let johanna and garrosh get close to you it's your decision making that is the problem.


You don't understand, do you? Nova has no way to protect herself from a tank, and obviously doesn't have the power to kill them on her own either. How do you intend to stop Johanna from walking all the way to you and beating you up? Nova can't do that. Her hardest cc move is Pinning Shot, which even for a slow is pathetic.

You're the true problem.


Lol are you serious? I simply walk in the opposite direction.

Heroes that can kill Johanna on their own among the 60 ish heroes on HOTS can be counted on one hand.

Obiously it's you way of thinking that is at fault, because you are making up a problem out of scenarios that would only be possible after poor decisions.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

You don't understand, do you? Nova has no way to protect herself from a tank, and obviously doesn't have the power to kill them on her own either. How do you intend to stop Johanna from walking all the way to you and beating you up? Nova can't do that. Her hardest cc move is Pinning Shot, which even for a slow is pathetic.

You're the true problem.


Lol are you serious? I simply walk in the opposite direction.


Walk in the opposite direction? Yeah, you can do that with every hero. How about walking your way out of Leoric's tomb? Walking towards more enemies? Uh huh. So much for your seriousness, Mr. WOOD LEAGUE. Yes, I mean your current HL rank must be wood or paper, cus the bronzies I played with back in the day were better than you.

It's like you never felt the love of a mother, you shot your own dignity down this much.
08/06/2018 12:56 AMPosted by richieb
...

You don't understand, do you? Nova has no way to protect herself from a tank, and obviously doesn't have the power to kill them on her own either. How do you intend to stop Johanna from walking all the way to you and beating you up? Nova can't do that. Her hardest cc move is Pinning Shot, which even for a slow is pathetic.

You're the true problem.


Nova honestly since her release has had just a really bad kit and mechanics.
She is a poorly designed hero
She would be better off deleted, and re-released as a new hero.
Her design is total garbage.
Stealth should not be the blame for her being one of the worst heros Blizz has ever created.

The only thing she was ever good at was killing Silver level players in QM in 5 v 5 assassin games.


I can see your point as she is very limited to maps like Towers of Doom, Volskaya and Cursed hollow (ranked) and should not be played in anything else besides these, she is also very dependent on what your team and enemy composition is, she is not a all around hero, very limited (escpecially limited to your ability to hit Q).

But on these maps that are decided more by team fights than wave and preventing the enemy from capturing the objective she can be extremly strong, but very situational.
Roflmao who would ever pick Nova over the likes of Genji or Hanzo in Towers of Doom or whatever other map.
08/06/2018 01:10 AMPosted by Leadblast
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Lol are you serious? I simply walk in the opposite direction.


Walk in the opposite direction? Yeah, you can do that with every hero. How about walking your way out of Leoric's tomb? Walking towards more enemies? Uh huh. So much for your seriousness, Mr. WOOD LEAGUE. Yes, I mean your current HL rank must be wood or paper, cus the bronzies I played with back in the day were better than you.

It's like you never felt the love of a mother, you shot your own dignity down this much.


Actually im somewhere between diamond/master and if you really insist on how i would get out of that tomb it would be with the help of medivh.

The only heroes that could get out of that tomb are the ones with teleport och some kind of jump (without silence)

No offense but you sound like an angry kid who just looks at something to blaim or maybe you are just a troll.
08/06/2018 01:19 AMPosted by Leadblast
Roflmao who would ever pick Nova over the likes of Genji or Hanzo in Towers of Doom or whatever other map.


In the higher ranks Genji and Hanzo are usually first bans.
...

Walk in the opposite direction? Yeah, you can do that with every hero. How about walking your way out of Leoric's tomb? Walking towards more enemies? Uh huh. So much for your seriousness, Mr. WOOD LEAGUE. Yes, I mean your current HL rank must be wood or paper, cus the bronzies I played with back in the day were better than you.

It's like you never felt the love of a mother, you shot your own dignity down this much.


Actually im somewhere between diamond/master


Your trolling in this thread so far is too bad even for a fresh zero experience bronze player.

Sorry, you destroyed your own credibility with your last wave of posts. It's a fact you're not better than bronze.
08/06/2018 01:28 AMPosted by Leadblast
...

Actually im somewhere between diamond/master


Your trolling in this thread so far is too bad even for a fresh zero experience bronze player.

Sorry, you destroyed your own credibility with your last wave of posts. It's a fact you're not better than bronze.


You are welcome to try my out CheakyTurtle#2677 :)
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Your trolling in this thread so far is too bad even for a fresh zero experience bronze player.

Sorry, you destroyed your own credibility with your last wave of posts. It's a fact you're not better than bronze.


You are welcome to try my out CheakyTurtle#2677 :)


Oh I'm sure I have about a million things better to do than wasting my time with a troll as bad as you are, dear. Also, like I said before a million times, I'm retired from HotS, but you're still stuck trying to read those posts, I see.
only successful for zeratul, the new ult is actually pretty awesome.

the other stealth characters....not so much...
08/06/2018 01:32 AMPosted by Leadblast
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You are welcome to try my out CheakyTurtle#2677 :)


Oh I'm sure I have about a million things better to do than wasting my time with a troll as bad as you are, dear.


Dont call me troll, I'm a turtle you rude turd.
...

Oh I'm sure I have about a million things better to do than wasting my time with a troll as bad as you are, dear.


Dont call me troll, I'm a turtle you rude turd.


Oh please, why would I offend the turtles by calling you like that? Git gud, troll.
08/06/2018 01:32 AMPosted by Berries
only successful for zeratul, the new ult is actually pretty awesome.

the other stealth characters....not so much...


Zeratul's kit is so good, he never even needed the stealth from his trait in the first place.
I like my stealth characters to be stealthy. The current stealth is not stealthy at all.
08/04/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Ephraim
Nova was pretty good after her rework.
Then she got nerfed.
And again
And again
And again
And again
And again
.
.
.
.
.
.
And now here we are.


So was Valeera.

Both Nova and Valeera can't be viable, but they leave Zeratul in this broken Fing state of being unstoppable.
The bigger question you should ask now is.....is HotS a failure?

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