Tyrande changes, her new support breakdown.

General Discussion
(Q) Healing increased from 270 to 275. Now it has 2 charges, that recharge at the same time. Cooldown increased from 11 to 15 sec. Basic attack cooldown reduction reduced from 2 sec to 1,5 sec, but now abilities also reduce the cooldown by 1,5 sec.
(W) Damage reduced from 165 to 120. I don't know if they removed the quest all together or did they just make it only reduce its mana cost.
(E) Damage reduced from 195 to 150
(D) Armor reduction reduced from 25 to 15, cooldown reduced from 20 sec to 15 sec.

Her basic kit:
healing is increased and the charges are doubled. That means every 15 seconds she gets 550 to heal. 36.67 heals per second. Previously 24.55hp/s. With cd reduction she could get 4 shots in meaning it would reduce the CD to 3 seconds. her original heal with AA's now being 90/s. Her new heal with AA would be ~7 shots for 10.5s of CD reduction bringing her cd to 4.5ish seconds. 550/4.5 = 122.2/s but with abilities factored in (landing her owl) changes that to a 3 second cd meaning 183.33/s.

She is able to use a heal ever 3 seconds currently. Or a 2 heals every 4.5 seconds

Her armor reduction goes from 25 per 20 seconds to 15 per 15 seconds. she gets 1.25 armor/s down to 1.00 armor/s reduced.

Her talents:

Level 1
Blizzard has recognized that to increase her healing they must nerf her damage. So i will ignore damage and focus on the healing and mitigation aspects.

Moonlight arrows (moved from 4) - cooldown reduction reduced from 0.75 sec to 0.25 sec.
-Turns her original CD in to 2.5 second cd (turns out it doesnt help a ton because she is in between shots without shadowstalk). Which brings her healing to 108/s. Which is already less than her untalented rework. With her new talent she goes to ~12 seconds of cd reduction. Meaning 2 heals every 3 seconds.

Kaldorei Resistance (moved from 4) - Max stacks reduced to 2 from 3
-This is not seen as a nerf because tyrande now gets to use 2 heals right off of the bat. That means she can apply this buff more often. Currently tyrande rarely heals the same person 3 times in a row, especially in a teamfight. So that 3 stack was somewhat rare. Now it can be applied to a 2 stack almost instantly to the same person (someone who just took a lot of damage or is about to) for a 30% spell reduction instantaneously. Instead of having to wait 3 more seconds to get another on them. So every 4.5 seconds you get to hit them with 30% instead of every 9 seconds 45% resistance. Her new talent gives 6.67%/s while her old did only 5%/s. So a considerable buff here to her mitigation. Especially with its utility of being able to apply 30% instantly.

Level 4
Ranger (moved from 1) - baseline bonus damage increased from 75% to 150%, but is no longer a quest and activated manually to make sentinel pierce.
-This will increase her healing by giving her an additional cd reduction. if it is allowed to pierce everyone it can get up to 7.5 seconds of reduction on just the owl. If it only hits 2 thats 3 additional seconds of reduction. Buffing her healing considerably.

Lunar Blaze (moved from 1) - the range increase in now provided baseline and the quest caps at 20 stacks.
-This gives increased utility from level 4 because now you can target their backline from level 4. This was the talent always taken before her current rework because the range is insanely good. This increases her utility from a much earlier stage.

Level 7
Everlasting Light (new) - If the second charge of Light of Elune is not used on the same target as first, increase its heal amount by 40%.
-this will be an insane increase in healing. Its a huge buff. Especially coupled with level 1's resistance you will be basically able to heal a stunlocked or CC'd hero from almost dead to full, giving them a hit of spell resistance too.

level 10
Shadowstalk (reworked) - All allies gain Stealth and heal for 400 Health over 10 seconds. Remaining stationary for at least 1.5 seconds while Stealthed grants Invisible.
-while she loses the attack speed, the utility of an entire invisible team is absurd. This was always the talent taken before her current build and games were won singlehandedly on this ability. Giving it the heal back also adds a HUGE buff to saving heroes who are in danger.

Starfall (the same). However her descriptions say that ability damage also reduces the CDs of her Q. So starfall can make the CD on her heal almost nonexistent

level 13
Harsh Moonlight - Slow and Damage reduction increased from 25% to 40%.
-more utility. She is an insane mitigation hero now. she can save ~70% of spell damage on a hero now instantaneously. Insanely good buff here.

Ranger's Mark (moved from 1) - No longer a quest. Instead each basic attack increases mark's duration by 0,5 sec.
-a fair buff here. it will increase the duration of hunters mark by 2.67 seconds up the 6.67 seconds. Marking a tank at the start of the battle and just AAing him will keep that buff going. Already nobody took ranger's mark at level 1. So this actually is slightly alluring. However this wont be picked over harsh moonlight.

level 16
Empower (moved from 13, but reworked) - Reduce Sentinel's cooldown by 3 seconds. The first Hero hit takes an additional 7% of their maximum Health as damage.
-This will ultimately increase her healing/second because now she can send more owls for more cd reduction. it will also go nicely with harsh moonlight giving her more mitigation.

level 20
Eyes of the Huntress (updated) - After casting Shadowstalk, reveal all enemy Heroes for 2 seconds. Increase its heal by 50% to all allies below 50% maximum Health.
-this will be a HUGE buff to saving low hp heroes. Giving her the utility of initiating with it or using it mid-fight to save lives.

Shooting Star - bonus range reduced from 1,1 to 1. Basic attacks required reduced from 10 to 8, and they no longer need to be against heroes. (buff)
-added utility which will help her against hugely melee teams.

So there you have it. When looking at it in this light i think that her skill-floor will go up (no more mindless owls) but her impact will be GREATLY increased. Her healing per second skyrockets for the duration of the game. Her shadowstalk gets a huge improvement, huge utility, and a huge heal.

Her mitigation talents get a MEGA buff as well. She will be the go-to hero for mitigating hero damage. Being able to save multiple people simultaneously while being able to really reduce her enemy's damage.

I think we're going to see a great new playstyle from tyrande. If you can land her skillshots and are quick on the heals, she is going to be a force to be reckoned with.

https://i.imgur.com/OD6BWcm.png

https://i.imgur.com/D2uVE3R.png

here is confirmation that tyrande is anything but ruined.

p.s. its still early so I may have got some numbers wrong. If pointed out I will correct them. Special thanks to WereElf for the list of changes.
08/24/2018 09:58 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
I think we're going to see a great new playstyle from tyrande. If you can land her skillshots and are quick on the heals, she is going to be a force to be reckoned with.


Healbot playstyle, so amazing. Get rid of this already.
08/24/2018 10:00 AMPosted by rcw
Healbot playstyle, so amazing. Get rid of this already.


im sorry. How is being a mitigation MONSTER a "healbot"

if you think youre just going to stand there AAing and healing and expect to get good results youre going to lose a LOT of games with her.

her new playstyle is going to be mitigating damage on your high-priority teammates and reducing the damage output of their high-dps heroes. That is anything but mindless and is going to demand you be QUICK with your ability application and even quicker with your threat assessment/ability predictions.
after watching mfpally play her i think she will be a great solo healer
08/24/2018 10:05 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
her new playstyle is going to be mitigating damage on your high-priority teammates


She can already do this, and better as her owl can affect all targets hit and not only the first target hit as the new Harsh Moonlight. Her spelldamage reduction will be down to 30 instead of 45%, and last 3s instead of 6. Her lvl 20 talent already exists as such.

Her damage reduction is heavily nerfed.
08/24/2018 10:05 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
her new playstyle is going to be mitigating damage on your high-priority teammates


She can already do this, and better as her owl can affect all targets hit.
Her spelldamage reduction will be down to 30 instead of 45%.
Her lvl 20 talent already exists as such.

Her damage reduction is heavily nerfed.


you clearly did not take time to read the breakdown because these points are addressed.
...

She can already do this, and better as her owl can affect all targets hit.
Her spelldamage reduction will be down to 30 instead of 45%.
Her lvl 20 talent already exists as such.

Her damage reduction is heavily nerfed.


you clearly did not take time to read the breakdown because these points are addressed.


They are not, especially as you leave out a lot of the changes. Your breakdown does not even mention that the 7% damage and the debuff are limited to the first target hit.

Your rationalizations are also wrong.
08/24/2018 10:24 AMPosted by rcw
7% damage

08/24/2018 09:58 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
Blizzard has recognized that to increase her healing they must nerf her damage. So i will ignore damage and focus on the healing and mitigation aspects.

08/24/2018 09:58 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
Slow and Damage reduction increased from 25% to 40%.

no where does it say "only the first hero hit"
that is
08/24/2018 09:58 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
level 16
Empower (moved from 13, but reworked) - Reduce Sentinel's cooldown by 3 seconds. The first Hero hit takes an additional 7% of their maximum Health as damage.

08/24/2018 10:24 AMPosted by rcw
Your rationalizations are also wrong

it would help if you actually presented an argument with this. but you didnt. so it can be entirely ignored
no where does it say "only the first hero hit"


It does say so on the tooltip for Harsh Moonlight in the Gamescom version.; your transcription is wrong. I went through chu8´s stream 3 times on 0.25 speed to get that right in my own transcript, so i know all the changes from the back of my head.

Even if you take the active pierce talent, nothing will happen to anything but the first target for both the % damage and the debuff.


08/24/2018 10:24 AMPosted by rcw
Your rationalizations are also wrong

it would help if you actually presented an argument with this. but you didnt. so it can be entirely ignored


Fine. You can already reach the 45% for 6s pretty fast, which beats out 30% instant for 3s. The problem with the owl debuff is illustrated above. Her debuff talent (even tough it now stacks faster), already exists, so the difference is barely relevant.

Celestial Attunement had the slow removal added, but i think the free cast is mor eimportant as you get more value out of the enemy CC.

This so far for her damage mitigation, which i count as a form of utility, whereas i said they gutted it.

Further they moved her only (which is bad enough) E talent further up, so that stacking will probably not even reach the cap as many games end within 16-20.

They also destroyed her hybrid nature as they gutted her basic attack damage and gated all possible damage behind (high level) talents.

So even if she was a good healer, her playstyle would be destroyed and the rework therefore being undesireable.

08/24/2018 10:05 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
if you think youre just going to stand there AAing and healing and expect to get good results youre going to lose a LOT of games with her.


Btw i played Tyrande v1 for nearly 200 games, v2 for a good 150 games so far; all as a agressive supp. She sure wasn´t perfect in either iteration; but this is not a solution.
08/24/2018 10:40 AMPosted by rcw
Fine. You can already reach the 45% for 6s pretty fast

do you consider 9 seconds "pretty fast" ?
08/24/2018 10:40 AMPosted by rcw
beats out 30% instant for 3s.

Do you know the concept of "burst mitigation" ?
08/24/2018 10:40 AMPosted by rcw
whereas i said they gutted it.

Target their top dps with it. simple.
08/24/2018 10:40 AMPosted by rcw
They also destroyed her hybrid nature as they gutted her basic attack damage and gated all possible damage behind (high level) talents.

thats kinda the point when you create a solo healer.
08/24/2018 10:40 AMPosted by rcw
Btw i played Tyrande v1 for nearly 200 games, v2 for a good 150 games so far; all as a agressive supp. She sure wasn´t perfect in either iteration; but this is not a solution.

a quick search on your profile shows that you have a 48% winrate on tyrande. In what world would I consider you any sort of authority when you lose most of the games you play with her?
Ive played both versions as well and my winrate is 66%. over 200 games.
08/24/2018 10:55 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
a quick search on your profile shows that you have a 48% winrate on tyrande. In what world would I consider you any sort of authority when you lose most of the games you play with her?


YOu might not want to trust Hotslogs, its 51%, in QM only. So in difference to you i can even play her out of your little happy HL land where there is always a tank.

You might also refrain from logical falacies like that, even if i was a lvl 1 player that never eben played Tyrande at all, my arguments would be exactly as valid as if i was GM#1 Tyrande main.
The source is irrellevant, only the argument counts.
08/24/2018 10:07 AMPosted by DigitaLegacy
after watching mfpally play her i think she will be a great solo healer

I would caution against using Gamescom footage to base opinions on. The people he's playing against are just randoms sitting down at the convention, some of them do not even know how to play. He talked about how he saw someone was trying to use WASD to move.
08/24/2018 11:07 AMPosted by Shmorrior
08/24/2018 10:07 AMPosted by DigitaLegacy
after watching mfpally play her i think she will be a great solo healer

I would caution against using Gamescom footage to base opinions on. The people he's playing against are just randoms sitting down at the convention, some of them do not even know how to play. He talked about how he saw someone was trying to use WASD to move.


True, but I can still tell how a hero plays regardless of the quality of the people that hero is facing.
08/24/2018 11:06 AMPosted by rcw
08/24/2018 10:55 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
a quick search on your profile shows that you have a 48% winrate on tyrande. In what world would I consider you any sort of authority when you lose most of the games you play with her?


YOu might not want to trust Hotslogs, its 51%, in QM only. So in difference to you i can even play her out of your little happy HL land where there is always a tank.

You might also refrain from logical falacies like that, even if i was a lvl 1 player that never eben played Tyrande at all, my arguments would be exactly as valid as if i was GM#1 Tyrande main.
The source is irrellevant, only the argument counts.


and 134 of my games with her are QM where my winrate is 59%

I dont see what youre getting at

and the source is exactly relevant. You were the one who started the logical fallacies trying to use an "appeal to authority" which is why you stated how many games you played on her. however you failed to realize that people can look you up and recognize that a player of your caliber is NOT an authority.

So no, your argument doesn't hold water because you're arguing from a point of biased information tainted by your own playstyle, one that is mediocre at best.

youre arguing from the point of someone who doesn't know how to use tyrande to her maximum capacity and who doesnt actually know what will improve her. Youre like a guy who drives in the slow lane to work every day trying to give advice on formula 1 racing lines.
08/24/2018 11:10 AMPosted by Flinx
08/24/2018 11:07 AMPosted by Shmorrior
...
I would caution against using Gamescom footage to base opinions on. The people he's playing against are just randoms sitting down at the convention, some of them do not even know how to play. He talked about how he saw someone was trying to use WASD to move.


True, but I can still tell how a hero plays regardless of the quality of the people that hero is facing.

You can tell how good a hero is based off the first impressions of a player playing against completely random and probably below average skilled opponents whose comp has no support?

Ok then.
I'm sorry, why are we downvoting rcw's rational and well presented posts? Even if you disagree with their general position; they're presenting good information. Have some intellectual integrity people.
08/24/2018 11:33 AMPosted by Urza
I'm sorry, why are we downvoting rcw's rational and well presented posts? Even if you disagree with their general position; they're presenting good information. Have some intellectual integrity people.


because they amount to no more than "NEW TYRANDE SUCKS. UNPLAYABLE"

when its actually not based in rationality, numbers, experience, or logic.

completely ignoring the insane increase in healing, utility, and mitigation.
This thread is crap, like the ""rework"" why are you even trying to defend this shat.

AND I SHOULD MAKE A THREAD JUST WITH THIS

This is the new design for tyrande... the Truth.

Q is now QQ
W for more QQ
E for more QQ
R for more QQ

Tyrande is QQ.

You can't argue with this statement, simple and perfect.

You trying to make others believe that this ""rework"" is pertinent or fine or even acceptable, is miserable.... this is childish mythomania.
Can Xenterex come into this thread and shut down Belorsin please? I honestly don't know how the discourse can be derailed so much by a post so inane and meaningless.

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