Why is the game getting more and more limitations every patch ?

General Discussion
Belive it or not, in diamond I pick LiLi as a solo laner for Braxis Holdout vs enemy Artanis solo laner whenever team comps allow and the game resulsts were mostly in my favor so far. How long before your next limitation to make that impossible ? (Oh no, a support as solo laner).

As you might be aware, there is a hot topic going on about Malfurion having lost PVE damage on his Entangling Roots ability. This is so unjustified and boring. It was insanely fun to heal the footmen minions with regrowth, not to mention mercs. They could easily be killed with the heal on them if an enemy hero was clearing the lane, but if they were left alone, the heal was of gold value. So he both lost the ability to PVE heal and had his PVE dmg capabilties cut in half ...

You are destroying any kind of freedom with these limitations and indirectly affecting heroes like Nova as well. By making Malfurion a trash laner, there is just more hate for a Nova because team might lack lane xp with her ganking (god forbid somebody else with her).

What is next, removing LiMing's lv4 missiles so she cant deal good dmg vs Immortals on Batlefield of Eternity ? Are you also gonna remove Rehgar's PVE damage from thunder shield ? (It was also fun to have the untalented Thunder Shield from lv1 talent for situations like Immortal damage, but nerfed ofc ...)

GG Blizzard, balance and design on point, as always.
To be fair they already removed most of the pve shield damage.

Blizzard seems to be listening to the players that complain about any hero that is not strictly for the 5v5. Heaven forbid anyone have fun while trying to win.
08/27/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Werbs713
To be fair they already removed most of the pve shield damage.

Blizzard seems to be listening to the players that complain about any hero that is not strictly for the 5v5. Heaven forbid anyone have fun while trying to win.


Not only that, it seems there's now a certain minimum range for participating in a 5v5.
I've been relegated to Kosher meats.
Recently Blizzard has been targeting random heroes and nerfing them. I don't know where they keep getting these ideas from, there are other bigger problems that need to be addressed.
malf pve change was a while back.. they made him quite boring overall too.
Because the way to have 'fun' is not their way of having 'fun', therefore you are not having 'fun' correctly....therefore they must change the game so that you can have their way of 'fun'
I've been relegated to Kosher meats.
Yeah it seems there are fewer and fewer opportunities for emergent uses and strategies on abilities. DoTA does this real well since many abilities can be used on friends and foes to various effect, but they have items which can allow players to correct for specific deficiencies in a draft.

I think the drive to create talent tiers that focus only on improving specific roles and abilities is creating staleness (e.g. Tassadar lv 4 is all shield talents)
08/27/2018 10:57 AMPosted by drkbef
Yeah it seems there are fewer and fewer opportunities for emergent uses and strategies on abilities. DoTA does this real well since many abilities can be used on friends and foes to various effect, but they have items which can allow players to correct for specific deficiencies in a draft.

I think the drive to create talent tiers that focus only on improving specific roles and abilities is creating staleness (e.g. Tassadar lv 4 is all shield talents)


In dota, anything that is 'discovered' by the players that the developers did not expect is encouraged and even buffed. In heroes its a 'deviation' from the set philosophy and has to be changed/eliminated
Blizzard doesn’t like healers doing anything besides healing.

Hell lucio has had only one R for over a year now. Sure that’s a bit of sarcasm, I know he has 2 but being a bit realistic, if you even think about picking reverse amp your account is going to get ban before your match ends.
Li Li is a hero that has trouble laning against a Abathur hat. Artanis should crush that as long as he focuses on the minion waves and grinding her towers to dust instead of dueling the panda.
There was a time in the beta were Lili was easily the best solo lane in game by sheer value of being impossible to remove from lane. She actually outright won a decent number of match ups. Even back then most people wouldn't have understood it for it's values, and seen only the break from the norm that they were accustomed to.

08/27/2018 11:00 AMPosted by Degaris
08/27/2018 10:57 AMPosted by drkbef
Yeah it seems there are fewer and fewer opportunities for emergent uses and strategies on abilities. DoTA does this real well since many abilities can be used on friends and foes to various effect, but they have items which can allow players to correct for specific deficiencies in a draft.

I think the drive to create talent tiers that focus only on improving specific roles and abilities is creating staleness (e.g. Tassadar lv 4 is all shield talents)


In dota, anything that is 'discovered' by the players that the developers did not expect is encouraged and even buffed. In heroes its a 'deviation' from the set philosophy and has to be changed/eliminated


Meta gaming, and I mean actual meta gaming, is typically good for a game's long term health. It might not have been foreseen by developer intent but is more often than not good for variety if it doesn't somehow outright break the game. Deviant approaches by the players working out the mechanics of a game should define the upper level metas, not hamfisted developers saying "You must play the game exactly this way!". Yet many developers have taken to beating their outliers back into submission of a specific defined "meta" patch after patch. They have no interest in the product a living game actually generates.

Then you see complaints talking about how the game is "stale" and in the same breath those people complain about those few that deviate from the defined optimal way to play. It's baffling to me.

I've personally been ahead of the curve on meta breaking a few times in my gaming lifetime. You will be mocked, downvoted, and argued against. It doesn't matter. When it beats what's popular and wins you games... just prove your argument through action and take those wins. The general player base will keep feeding them to you because some pro hasn't adopted your answer to the status quo for them to copy and praise. They're largely incapable of original thought. So the reinforced sameness of the meta they hate actually favors them.

One example I have was Morgana as a support in LoL circa 2014. She had been used there before but had long fallen out of favor, however she was a critical answer to a then common pick but oppressive jungle Vi. I got mad downvotes for the suggestion to people crying about Vi, even though I'd been taking advantage of it for weeks and had the stats to show as my proof. That is until some pro either through coming to the same realization or by trickle down of the information through savvy players proved my point for me on the LCS stage like 2 months later. The turn around was hilarious. Vi became obsolete, since support Morg was not entirely worth a ban. Then the Vi nerfs came down the pipe long after they were needed, when metagaming players had already solved the problem for themselves. Not much longer after that I started getting flamed for taking Morgana back to the midlane, despite my consistent success with her there, and despite the fact that the reason for her to be in the support slot had been nerfed out of the meta, all because "she's a support bro". Yeah thanks for the tip...
08/27/2018 01:13 PMPosted by Digitality
I've personally been ahead of the curve on meta breaking a few times in my gaming lifetime. You will be mocked, downvoted, and argued against.


You know, I've been thinking about TLV's place in the meta, and with how "WE MUST TEAMFIGHT" everyone in this game's becoming, maybe having everyone on one lane while TLV soak is a good plan.

Someone better argue against me.
esports is bad for basic gameplay
Entangling Roots: 14 cd/75 mana/117 damage
Moonfire: 3 cd/10 mana/90 damage
"cut in half" rofl
I always hated games / developers that are removing unintended mechanics or in general narrowing the options in how a game can be played. They do it in the name of balance but they forget the fun in the diversity. This is why I am not fond of this forced competitive gaming.
They forgot their most iconic game - Starcraft. During the course of the game people discovered multitude of tricks that were surely not initially thought of from developers but than later defined the game itself and the competitive scene and the meta. For example it took a long time for people to find out that you can wall off stuff with buildings which now everyone takes for granted.
Another example are Quake games. Strafe jumping and similar movement mechanics (cycle jumps,...) were a bug that later became the staple of quake games and added completely new mechanics that increased the skill floor to the moon and beyond. It went even further and completely new disciplines like defrag came from it which are basically community driven racing competitions on community maps. In Quake live they went and coded the mechanics but they also made more streamlined and easier to perform which actually made it worse (suddenly everyone knew how to do it so it was less interesting).
08/27/2018 01:36 PMPosted by cuks
I always hated games / developers that are removing unintended mechanics or in general narrowing the options in how a game can be played. They do it in the name of balance but they forget the fun in the diversity. This is why I am not fond of this forced competitive gaming.
They forgot their most iconic game - Starcraft. During the course of the game people discovered multitude of tricks that were surely not initially thought of from developers but than later defined the game itself and the competitive scene and the meta. For example it took a long time for people to find out that you can wall off stuff with buildings which now everyone takes for granted.
Another example are Quake games. Strafe jumping and similar movement mechanics (cycle jumps,...) were a bug that later became the staple of quake games and added completely new mechanics that increased the skill floor to the moon and beyond. It went even further and completely new disciplines like defrag came from it which are basically community driven racing competitions on community maps. In Quake live they went and coded the mechanics but they also made more streamlined and easier to perform which actually made it worse (suddenly everyone knew how to do it so it was less interesting).


SFA2 has a great story about these sorts of things in the Valle CC that completely shifted the way the game was played. In the B3 tourney finals in '96 Alex Valle busted out the CC against John Choi and caught him completely off-guard. Yet in the same match Choi worked out what was happening and returned the favor to Valle, I think to win the set. Though Valle ultimately won the best of 5 series 3-2 the meta of the game completely changed in the aftermath.
08/27/2018 01:25 PMPosted by MortalWombat
Entangling Roots: 14 cd/75 mana/117 damage
Moonfire: 3 cd/10 mana/90 damage
"cut in half" rofl
Ye, ironically funny when you quote it like that, meant to write you lost 1 of 2 abilities to deal PVE damage. Its not the end of the world, but it starts out like that. Little by little and nothing is left.

First Regrowth went away for PVE, then Roots. Eventually Moonfire will get the same treatment.
08/27/2018 10:34 AMPosted by TheButcher
I've been relegated to Kosher meats.


I gefilte your pain.

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