Roots: Decard vs Malf

General Discussion
Is there a specific reason on why Decard's root can root minions and Malf's root cannot?
The power of magical walking sticks. Give the old man a break. Yeah I have no idea, it's inconsistent, which is consistent with Blizzard hero design philosophy.
08/26/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Zeldo
Is there a specific reason on why Decard's root can root minions and Malf's root cannot?
Simply because since few months Entangling Roots do not work on non-heroics, at all.
They literally changed it because they didn't want Malf spending 75 mana for that big 117 damage waveclear.
Stupid illogical design.

Same question why doesnt Jaina have the lv7 Icefury Wand talent work for non-heroic targets to allow her to DPS immortals faster for example ?

I hate this selective exclusion of heroes' perks.
Next thing Rehgar will have his Thunder Shield do dmg to heroes only ....
Blizzard hates some supports having wave clear. There is really no more to it than that.
Because Cain is imo the most busted support in hots. I don't usually complain about balance but man he is disruptive.
Probably because Deckard even with minion-roots have terrible waveclear while Malf would have no real problems with it.
I also dislike the fact that they removed minion healing.
I know it's usually not a good idea to do that but with mercs and stuff it's pretty good.
08/27/2018 01:35 AMPosted by Moonshadow
Blizzard hates some supports having wave clear. There is really no more to it than that.


i never understand the grudge here.

if your support can waveclear very efficiently then whats the point of having a specialist or waveclear hero?

I mean already the support is going to be top of one category and thats healing.

why would you want to make them efficient and competitive in 2 categories? objectively thats unfair because then you'd get a double support meta again simply because more waveclear = more damage = more aoe = better teamfighting for the supports. then you have 2 supports that can dish it out to minion waves AND teamfights while they also top the healing charts. And thats nonsensical.

or if you'd like talents where they increase their non-hero damage now youre wasting talents on PvE where they would be better spend on talents that support your team because at least 2-3 of your other teammates should be able to clear lanes. you'd then be building a mediocre support just to clear waves if you took those talents.

doesnt that make sense to you? you already have a hero adept at one category and to make them adept in multiple categories is to create OP heroes.
08/27/2018 06:52 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
08/27/2018 01:35 AMPosted by Moonshadow
Blizzard hates some supports having wave clear. There is really no more to it than that.


i never understand the grudge here.

if your support can waveclear very efficiently then whats the point of having a specialist or waveclear hero?

I mean already the support is going to be top of one category and thats healing.

why would you want to make them efficient and competitive in 2 categories? objectively thats unfair because then you'd get a double support meta again simply because more waveclear = more damage = more aoe = better teamfighting for the supports. then you have 2 supports that can dish it out to minion waves AND teamfights while they also top the healing charts. And thats nonsensical.

or if you'd like talents where they increase their non-hero damage now youre wasting talents on PvE where they would be better spend on talents that support your team because at least 2-3 of your other teammates should be able to clear lanes. you'd then be building a mediocre support just to clear waves if you took those talents.

doesnt that make sense to you? you already have a hero adept at one category and to make them adept in multiple categories is to create OP heroes.


Lol so you compare malfurion roots to zagara or sylvanas wave clear? There is a balance between a support being a heal bot and actually being able to do something on its own. Malf was nerfed so hard he cant even heal efficiently without other people around him. His entire kit was reworked around being a heal bot. No danage to minioms from roots, neglect able damage from moonfire, but hey, he is a really good heal bot.

And then there is dickhard, the absolute most OPsupport ever released. Hell, there is no high level game without him either banned or part of some busted combo with 100 years of CC.
Supports being efficient weave cleaners is especially important for heroes like Nova to be able to roam without being hated on for lack of lane xp.

I am not saying everyone has to have everything. I just dont see the logic in nerfing perfectly fine working stuff. LiMing's teleport dmg nerf to PVE was justified, but the same nerf to Malfurion's Entangling Roots makes no sense ...
They've nerfed Malfurion quite a bit recently, now he's just not very popular anymore.
08/27/2018 10:05 AMPosted by Spyro
Supports being efficient weave cleaners is especially important for heroes like Nova to be able to roam without being hated on for lack of lane xp.

I am not saying everyone has to have everything. I just dont see the logic in nerfing perfectly fine working stuff. LiMing's teleport dmg nerf to PVE was justified, but the same nerf to Malfurion's Entangling Roots makes no sense ...

So what you're saying is that there needs to be a healer with better waveclear to enable assassins with bad waveclear. Obviously to be balanced, this support should be worse at straight-up healing and make up for that with utility.

I actually really like that. Draft variety strives on weighing weaknesses and strengths to create unique strategies. Blizzard has been focusing too hard on making every support do the same thing - heal. It's making the support roster not so varied. If they start introducing supports with different focuses, it can really shake up the meta.

Should Malfurion have solid waveclear? Probably not. He's a top tier healer already, and throwing waveclear into his kit is too much. But a new hero who has that could be incredible.
08/27/2018 12:50 AMPosted by Spyro
Next thing Rehgar will have his Thunder Shield do dmg to heroes only ....


Gosh, please don't give the devs any ideas!
nerf to Malfurion's Entangling Roots makes no sense ...
Using roots to waveclear made no sense
08/27/2018 06:52 AMPosted by BFGOMFG
i never understand the grudge here.

if your support can waveclear very efficiently then whats the point of having a specialist or waveclear hero?

I mean already the support is going to be top of one category and thats healing.

why would you want to make them efficient and competitive in 2 categories? objectively thats unfair because then you'd get a double support meta again simply because more waveclear = more damage = more aoe = better teamfighting for the supports. then you have 2 supports that can dish it out to minion waves AND teamfights while they also top the healing charts. And thats nonsensical.

or if you'd like talents where they increase their non-hero damage now youre wasting talents on PvE where they would be better spend on talents that support your team because at least 2-3 of your other teammates should be able to clear lanes. you'd then be building a mediocre support just to clear waves if you took those talents.

doesnt that make sense to you? you already have a hero adept at one category and to make them adept in multiple categories is to create OP heroes.


By that logic anyone who gets to top damage taken must be nerfed in the wave clear aspect too. You can't have tanks being useful for anything else. And then assassins top hero damage, let's nerf their siege damage and let only specs with good wave clear.
08/26/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Zeldo
Is there a specific reason on why Decard's root can root minions and Malf's root cannot?


Malf deals more damage.
08/27/2018 04:07 AMPosted by Karabars
Probably because Deckard even with minion-roots have terrible waveclear while Malf would have no real problems with it.


Malf's wave clear even with roots was awful.

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