KTZ can no longer use chain on structures

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08/22/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Catalyst
why do you keep making unnecessary changes to heroes who have great mechanics.

KTZ is a risk/reward hero. Know his combo and play him well and be rewarded, miss those crucial shots and get severely punished. You are now taking away a very large portion of our ability to proc that combo.


lower skill players, complainers that cry for no valid reasons and snowflake players and their precious feelings. blizzard is obviously listening to them and those players are destroying the game one hero and one patch at a time...

i hate being negative on this forum but the game simply keep going down hill, IF the hots team stop to cave in to those player then the damage could start being fixed because those special player would learn a simple rule of gaming... git gud or get out lol

i have no problem with skill differences , that will happen in anything, but instead of blaming their own lack of skill or learning of their mistake they blame the game and i simply have no respect for people with that mentality.
08/22/2018 12:48 PMPosted by Baluba
Hardly a skillshot when youre aiming for a stationary target like a wall. Changes are fine. Good ktz players will still prosper.


2nd part still needs to be aimed
And BTW, if you chain the structure FIRST, which you have to do most of the time in these situations, then it is indeed a HIGH skill shot.
08/22/2018 04:26 PMPosted by Rakanadyo
08/22/2018 01:50 PMPosted by Shadow
As a player who sucks with KTZ and hates playing against a good one, I believe the changes are absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary.

Blizzard, you took away what made him unique because you proven over and over that you cater to crybabies who complain about every single hero because they aren't having fun.

At this point Blizzard may as well port this game to the Nintendo switch and simplify the game so much that a 5 year old can play it.


Hey hey, woah, how is the Switch the "crybaby" console? Have ye not played on a PS4 or XB1 yet?


It's not. I just used the switch as an example because it is viewed as the family friendly console that most young kids would play.

Clearly Blizzard wants to water down all their games to the point that 5 year old children can play and everyone can have "fun".
To be honest as a KTZ main the biggest nerf was that to hungering cold. That nerf alone has the potential to drop over 1k dmg in 4 seconds off of my combos based on my previous builds. I never built glacial spike but using glacial spike as a structure seems like an appropriate substitute. In fact this will make it safer for KTZ to roam outside of structure zones mid to late game if he can use his spike as a chain to escape with.
08/22/2018 05:46 PMPosted by Pepperjack
I never built glacial spike but using glacial spike as a structure seems like an appropriate substitute.


He didn't lose structure chaining and gain glacial spike though. He already had glacial spike. Maybe you didn't use it. And I didn't take it either since I found I was pretty bad with it. But the vast majority took it.
Another example of Blizzard being absolutely clueless in hero balancing.

Always making changes where changes weren't needed and ignoring things that actually require changes
Imagine his winrate now goes up because we can chain 2 heroes behind buildings
They need to reverse both hungering cold and SF nerfs or increase his scaling to 3% to make him good again.

New Blighted Frost talent makes FN damage almost the same with pre-patch so I have no issue with that. But damn, hungerin cold hurts too much along with SF. 3% scaling may give him more damage (still less than pre-patch but better than current version). Also, it makes his late game dmg better to compete with other 4% scaling mages.

I don't mind chaining into structures since good KT players shouldn't rely on structures too much. New Chain Link CDR is very good to compensate this loss.

So, overall. Q buffs and Chain CDR are good. Increased shield can synergize well with Chain Link and free spike. But he needs dmg. If they want his damage to be less than pre-patch, so be it but make it higher than current dmg like:
Bring back old hungering cold with 2.5-3 sec, and make SF dmg 380.
Or
Increase scaling to 3%.

Also, give this mage some defensive talents for the sake of god. Kael has shields, Jaina has tons of slow, shield, statis, and Gul'dan has every healing abilities.
Buff armor with passive slow and make life-steal perma.
08/22/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Raze
And I didn't take it either since I found I was pretty bad with it.
I hate this reasoning...

Honestly yeah some mechanics in the game take practice. Spike takes practice, but I would say it takes a lot less practice than stutter stepping. Also takes a lot less practice than landing a good Cleanse. I would say all of these are really rewarding skills to learn in HotS, but by far the easiest to learn is Spike. All you need to do is go to Try mode, turn off your cooldowns, and just spam spikes everywhere, spam chains on spikes, spam chains at spikes while they're coming up, practice chaining Arthas and instantly spawning spike... All of a sudden, 5 minutes later, you're a master of spike. It is not challenging. The hardest part of using it is having patience for when people are trying to juke behind walls to have the terrain block your chain from pulling them, to counterplay it you need to just read their movement and place either the spike around the corner or place the root and Fissure on the other side of the terrain. It takes some practice, that last part, but general usage of Spike is BRAINDEAD and not picking Glacial Spike at 7, I wonder why anyone would even pick Kel'Thuzad unless they were so good, or so confident that they would ever be able to even step near enemy structures at some point in the game, that they didn't think they would need an easy, reliable, braindead single-target pickoff tool. Everyone should have always taken spike. The only argument I've ever heard for any other level 7 talent was the Q talent versus Hammer to counter her counter to your combo with her level4 unstoppable. Everything else pales so hard in comparison to spike I don't even know why KTZ would be played.
08/22/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Raze
And I didn't take it either since I found I was pretty bad with it.
I hate this reasoning...
It takes some practice, that last part, but general usage of Spike is BRAINDEAD and not picking Glacial Spike at 7, I wonder why anyone would even pick Kel'Thuzad unless they were so good, or so confident that they would ever be able to even step near enemy structures at some point in the game, that they didn't think they would need an easy, reliable, braindead single-target pickoff tool. Everyone should have always taken spike. The only argument I've ever heard for any other level 7 talent was the Q talent versus Hammer to counter her counter to your combo with her level4 unstoppable. Everything else pales so hard in comparison to spike I don't even know why KTZ would be played.


Honestly its because in late game a competent KTZ knows when to engage and doesn't need spike to take a single target. Spike enabled KTZ to burst down 1 player consistently through the midgame, whereas other builds made him truly incredible in the ultra late game.

Previously when KTZ built all Q talents, with Hungering Cold at 16, and picked The Damned Return shade that casts his Q when he casts he was unmatched by any character in damage potential. In the ultra late game the double Q with the shade allowed KTZ to literally wipe entire teams if executed correctly. This is because at level 7 accelerated decay increases damage while enemies remained in the area, the level 1 talent increases that area, the trait increases the baseline spellpower, the shade can double the area or double the damage, oftentimes with a more lethal crossover zone. Hungering cold caused nearly 50dmg EVERY TIME AN ENEMY WAS DAMAGED BY KTZ. This means that a player who was rooted by nova took nearly 800 damage from Hungering Cold ALONE when the death an decay would proc every .5 (x2 from shade). Not to mention the increase as from both Q pools from the level 7 talent. Not to mention the fact that chains of KTZ could bring people from the edge of the pool, back into the pool when used correctly during a teamfight. Using this build KTZ could shade 1 cast most brusier and siege camps, he could quickly place shade near a keep, retreat to a safe location, and siege the keep uncontested with shade casts. When playing with my brother we have Nano Boosted KTZ in these conditions in certain areas like hallways or camps and his Q build can literally drop 3-4 players in less than 1.5 seconds. Even without nano boost I have seen my Hero Damage from one ultra late game teamfight climb 20-25k in less than 5 seconds. His Q build consistently puts my siege damage over 200-250k if the game goes beyond level 20. In a Master Team League game on Spider Queen at level 27 I have put out over 700k SIEGE and 250k HERO.

TL:DR: Never play KTZ. KTZ is dead hero.[u][/u]
I can kind-of see what they mean, though. It's almost impossible to defend a wall against a team with KTZ without losing at least one ally. Even if he doesn't have vision, chaining to the gate then comboing in a random direction snags someone about half the time.

Definitely cuts down on his fun factor, tho..
yep, tried the new ktz. he suuuuuucks. i lost in dps to a tyrande. bummer cos I used to enjoy playing him.
To all the crybabies out there saying he was oppressive when pushing with the objective. How about you win said objective and force him to defend?

Problem solved. N00bs
I think blizzard is focused so hard on players not getting angry at the game that they have forgotten what it means to have fun.
Chiming in here too, chaining to buildings has never felt like a problem to me no matter how many KTs I've played against. I'd have thought something like Chilling Touch would have been a better candidate for being made baseline since it doesn't make people change how they play, but these changes were clearly twofold.

One, to make him more consistent at the expense of losing the most fun thing about him.

Two, changes to help disguise the fact that he can't do that anymore and make it look less like a flat out nerf. Like oh boy, yay, the cdr is native now and you get the spike for free. Except now you NEED to use that spike. I personally got by chaining people to buildings and never took the dang spike, but now I have to because apparently people being stronger in certain situations compared to others is a bad thing.

I always thought Shadow Fissure was a bigger problem really, given how stupidly powerful it was compared to Frost Blast. Like you can use it to capitalize on CC no matter where you are, you can interrupt channels, you can just empty it onto your combo for a big fffffffat stack of free damage like a button-mashing chimp, there was almost no situation where Frost Blast was a better choice. Maybe this has changed with the increased projectile speed, but most likely not.

The spike being baseline? Okay sure. Woulda preferred chilling touch, but fine I guess, it was so prevalent in being picked. Losing building-chaining? Miss me with that garbage, if you please.
You can clearly see that people who are working in the balance team are not capable of doing their job.(looks at tyrande - flare nerf ,AA nerf , owl nerf , additional heal stack , kelthuzad , tassadar and other company)
They seem to ruin everything they touch these days. From uninspired new heroes skills to bad reworks. Blizzard step your game up.
08/22/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Shadow
How about you win said objective and force him to defend?

Problem solved.
Duh! -.- /s
xD This is pure gold! Like when you are sad/depressed and ppl say stuff like: don't be sad/depressed. :O :poggers: I didn't think about that! Any suggestion how to improve my wr? "Win more matches." :O mind = blown
What are u doing Blizzard? Seriously, wtf are u doing?!

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