Cursing out a player who plays "poorly" is not helpful

General Discussion
08/26/2018 07:23 AMPosted by Kilometer
Neither praising a "bad" player is helpful.


I never said that. I definitely do not subscribe to the "everyone gets a trophy" mindset. Indeed, praise for poor play enhances poor play. I agree, nobody should be rewarded for poor performance.

However, encouragement is not praise. Tell them what they need to work on and to keep it up. Practice...practice...practice. Everybody was a noob once.
Teaching in the middle of a match is just not feasible. Tips can easily be given for simple things like which talent may be a good counter pick, especially a heroic, but explaining what a few years of experience has given me insight into reading the map, the comp, and how the other team is behaving cannot easily be done.

Also, players of all levels of experience have wildly differing opinions on what to do at any given moment. The fact is a lot of them can't even fathom that someone else might know something they don't and if they see something they don't agree with, they begin frothing at the mouth.

So, mute, or report, and watch videos or read guides to improve your skills. There was an Imgur gallery called "All the places you'll go and all the ways you'll throw." I don't know if that's helpful for you, but the resources are out there.
If you’re looking for help and trying to improve your gameplay I’d suggest watching some Hgc and learning when people take camps and why and try to understand it from watching. Sure playing will help but watch some pro games. Read up on the hero you’re gonna play. I usually go to icy viens to simply read what every ability does and then read what every talent does. I look to see what they’re recommended build is then try it out a few times in quick play then deviate from it the more comfortable I get. Or look at hotslogs so see what people are popularly picking. I use that when I’ve played a few games and wanna see if I’m building the right way.
Overall if you can find some people who understand the game and are willing to help you that’s a big plus too. That might be obvious but that don’t mean it isn’t true.
I’d recommend taking a hero into quick match as chaotic as that is and worry about fine tuning the hero your playing. In fact I’d say maybe two tanks two healers and two assassins and figure out the way they play and get s good feel for them. AI reacts completely different then humans. As big of a mess as quickmatch is sometimes it’s also a really good test to see how far you can push the hero. It’s limits and where it can succeed. I’d recommend staying away from ranked for awhile honestly.
But just read up on a hero you wanna play and learn it’s build paths and talent synergies and what heroes it plays well with and which ones negate you completely and pay attention to the battlefield those heroes have a better time at then others.
If ya want I may not be a master level player but I feel I got a good grasp to where I could help ya out in game and be a little bit of help. I make mistakes and still learn but I’d be willing to help you out
I agree, players in rank should not have to teach you or babysit you. If you’re mostly an AI player you should not be playing rank until you have more knowledge of the game, maybe try quick match for a while and Unrank to learn how to draft better and learn there. Watch YouTubers such as grubby, notparadox, nubkeks and even mfpallytime to get a better grasp on the game and rank
08/25/2018 06:37 PMPosted by GhostDragon
I did not know you could turn off chat. Thank you, I will look into that as that does solve half the problem.

But truthfully, if I really did do something wrong in a game I do want to know what it was, but constructively, so I can both know what exactly I did wrong and what I can work on to improve it. Perhaps I am asking for too much.


Buddy, what the actual... crap?

Are you really this un-self-aware? If you got cussed out for making a mistake. You should already know what your mistake was. Or do you need an actual text book thrown at you, picked up, and slap you across the face with it?

Either by over extending, taking tower damage, or chasing kills. If someone said something along the lines "Hey, !@#$head, stop doing that. You're going to cost us the game." and you can't internally criticize yourself at the moment and realize what you did wrong without someone spelling it out for you.

There's two outcomes here.

1: You're completely new to MOBAS and need to read up guides and watch youtube tutorials.
2: So completely dense and coddled that you cannot begin to improve without someone literally spelling things out for you.... in which.. maybe you should quit. You don't have the critical thinking enough to play a MOBA.
08/26/2018 07:23 AMPosted by Kilometer
Neither praising a "bad" player is helpful.


True. But you don't have to praise bad players to not be toxic. Literally all you have to do is not attack them in chat.

You can completely ignore them and simply not say anything in chat.

You can feel frustrated at them, just don't insult them in chat.

You can even hurl curses and insults at your screen (if you're not on voice chat) if they're really tilting you, just don't do it in chat.
08/26/2018 08:48 AMPosted by GeorgeV
08/26/2018 07:23 AMPosted by Kilometer
Neither praising a "bad" player is helpful.


True. But you don't have to praise bad players to not be toxic. Literally all you have to do is not attack them in chat.

You can completely ignore them and simply not say anything in chat.

You can feel frustrated at them, just don't insult them in chat.

You can even hurl curses and insults at your screen (if you're not on voice chat) if they're really tilting you, just don't do it in chat.


Have you ever played sports in real life? Ever been a to a music festival? Been to a football game?

There's trash talking around. Highly competitive spaces breed trash talking. Get used to it, or drop out. It's been fine for decades because people in those social spaces know when to drop it when the game is over. (Although there are those who take it too far, of course.) It's called having Sportsmanship.

And don't give me any of your crap. I'm very well aware the coddling of young adults/teenagers lately in college campuses around America and keeping them an easily controlled emotional state.

Kids need therapists, police officers, and mental health pets because they're traumatize over someone's opinions. Professors saying that it's completely okay to cry at work. Give me a damn break.
08/26/2018 07:31 AMPosted by GhostDragon
Tell them what they need to work on and to keep it up.

Noobs are too immature to accept criticism and cry "toxic, report!!!!" every time you give them advice.

Veterans have long since realized that most noobs are pathetic, undeserving, and ungrateful pieces of trash.

Teaching noobs how to play is a complete waste of time, it's much more effective to stomp your face into the dirt.

Blizzard's mistake was leaving communication on for noobs that inevitably ruin games. They should have muted new player chat for the first 100 PvP games.

If you have the maturity to accept criticism, you should go online and do your own independent research. Noobs are an unwanted burden. It's not our job to babysit you.
08/26/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Bou
08/26/2018 07:31 AMPosted by GhostDragon
Tell them what they need to work on and to keep it up.

Noobs are too immature to accept criticism and cry "toxic, report!!!!" every time you give them advice.

Veterans have long since realized that most noobs are pathetic, undeserving, and ungrateful pieces of trash.

Teaching noobs how to play is a complete waste of time, it's much more effective to stomp your face into the dirt.

Blizzard's mistake was leaving communication on for noobs that inevitably ruin games. They should have muted new player chat for the first 100 PvP games.

If you have the maturity to accept criticism, you should go online and do your own independent research. Noobs are an unwanted burden. It's not our job to babysit you.


While this is a bit harsh, it's true. I don't understand how people don't put any effort into learning a game before playing. Especially one with such complexity. The mechanical skills you need to play MOBAs is already a huge load - but the knowledge? Knowing what items to build, what talents to take, what heroes to pick, all of it. And most online guides are complete and utter trash. I literally roll my eyes when I go on Icy Veins. It's so wrong and so dumb.

Icy Veins says you should never pick Twin Blades.. and I have 60% winrate with Varain. It's wrong. " As good as this ability looks on paper, we do not recommend picking it."... Yeah, no.

Average players are casuals. Casuals don't belong in competitive games. Sorry, not sorry. People who can't handle trash talking, don't belong in competitive games. If most of these whiny brats were in a real sport, in real life, they would get kicked out or dropped from the team for being too soft.

With that said... I have actually trained a few noobs who are amazingly players and amazing shot callers. :D But I did yell at them and curse at them time to time. They sucked it up, and became amazing people and we all play together and have good times.
08/26/2018 08:52 AMPosted by StrikerJolt
08/26/2018 08:48 AMPosted by GeorgeV
...

True. But you don't have to praise bad players to not be toxic. Literally all you have to do is not attack them in chat.

You can completely ignore them and simply not say anything in chat.

You can feel frustrated at them, just don't insult them in chat.

You can even hurl curses and insults at your screen (if you're not on voice chat) if they're really tilting you, just don't do it in chat.


Have you ever played sports in real life? Ever been a to a music festival? Been to a football game?

There's trash talking around. Highly competitive spaces breed trash talking.


I'm not sure what your point is? I agree that sometimes you need to vent some frustration over failing allies. That's fine. Just don't do it in chat. That's literally all you have to do. You could even foam at the screen while wishing Satan himself to swallow your allies whole, and as long as you don't take the extra effort to type that in chat everyone will be fine with it.

Get used to it, or drop out.


Same to you. Toxicity is not welcome in HotS. Get used to it, or drop out.

It's been fine for decades because people in those social spaces know when to drop it when the game is over. (Although there are those who take it too far, of course.)


You're missing a crucial difference: In the competitive sports you describe, you're playing with friends or teammates that already know you and are used to playing with you, and are presumably fine with tolerating your (occasional?) in-game insults in exchange for your company the rest of the time.

In HotS that doesn't work, since you're playing with strangers you've never met before, and will rarely (if ever) meet again. All the social rapport you have with friends that lets you get away with certain things (such as insulting them) isn't there.(I'm fairly certain that even in competitive sports you'd get kicked out if you started your first day by insulting everyone else, even if it would probably be tolerated a few days in).

It's called having Sportsmanship.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship

Actually, sportsmanship is more about respecting your fellow players and enjoying the game. Basically the exact opposite of your vision of raging about losing and insulting teammates whenever they displease you.

And don't give me any of your crap. I'm very well aware the coddling of young adults/teenagers lately in college campuses around America and keeping them an easily controlled emotional state.


I don't even live in America. (And am really glad for it, it sounds like a dystopian nightmare).

(Also you may want to turn down the paranoia a little. You're not quite important enough to warrant a grand conspiracy to brainwash everyone against you. )

Kids need therapists, police officers, and mental health pets because they're traumatize over someone's opinions. Professors saying that it's completely okay to cry at work. Give me a damn break.


And are you any different? You're acting pretty traumatized over the fact that people have a different opinion on your toxicity.
08/25/2018 06:23 PMPosted by GhostDragon
I know Blizzard can't control the community, but I can't believe that high ranking players always knew what to do. Were the people making these horrible comments cussed at when they were newbies, and are now "paying it forward?"


Look, I do understand your frustration but it's not your fault. Blizzard loves to mix different diversions (Bronze/Silver/Gold/Plat and so on) to mix. Of course the high level player gets frustrated by you but it can't be helped at this point.
08/26/2018 08:46 AMPosted by StrikerJolt
08/25/2018 06:37 PMPosted by GhostDragon
I did not know you could turn off chat. Thank you, I will look into that as that does solve half the problem.

But truthfully, if I really did do something wrong in a game I do want to know what it was, but constructively, so I can both know what exactly I did wrong and what I can work on to improve it. Perhaps I am asking for too much.


Buddy, what the actual... crap?

Are you really this un-self-aware? If you got cussed out for making a mistake. You should already know what your mistake was. Or do you need an actual text book thrown at you, picked up, and slap you across the face with it?

Either by over extending, taking tower damage, or chasing kills. If someone said something along the lines "Hey, !@#$head, stop doing that. You're going to cost us the game." and you can't internally criticize yourself at the moment and realize what you did wrong without someone spelling it out for you.

There's two outcomes here.

1: You're completely new to MOBAS and need to read up guides and watch youtube tutorials.
2: So completely dense and coddled that you cannot begin to improve without someone literally spelling things out for you.... in which.. maybe you should quit. You don't have the critical thinking enough to play a MOBA.


You win this thread!

==========
Gill
Grand Marshal, Defender of the Crimson Court
To a point i can agree with this. Yes if its a new player i cut them some slack. We where all new at one point and honestly this is the first moba i enjoyed. So i get that. I wont go into calling some any bad names just callimg them out on game play. But i think we can all agree on the aspect we all said less than tasteful things in game.

The thing i have no tolerance for is if you make the same mistake over and over again without showing improvements. If you keep running into a 1v3 i have an issue. You cause an issue with a team fight i take issue. I learn this game by being called out on mistakes. You see something wrong bring it to my attention dont let it happen again and again.
I don't disagree with you, but I've found it impossible to help people even in a friendly way.
9/10 times even when someone gives a helpful tip in a friendly way (from my experience) it is usually followed up by a "get fukt" or "suc my dic" etc. in response.
08/27/2018 08:37 AMPosted by GeorgeV
Actually, sportsmanship is more about respecting your fellow players and enjoying the game. Basically the exact opposite of your vision of raging about losing and insulting teammates whenever they displease you.


Well said, and worth repeating. This is the point. Be a good sport whether you win or lose. The drunken rage seen often at sporting events is NOT sportsmanship.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum