Community anti-surrender button?

General Discussion
Why is the community against a surrender button?

Being trapped in matches that aren't even close to competitive seems to breed rage/salty behavior. Why isn't there a compromise between both camps (pro and anti surrender button)?

Edit: I'm not really sure why people are disliking my post where I'm asking why the community why they have their beliefs on a topic. Shouldn't this be where I post something that I think should be discussed?
Either should fix quick match matchmaking or add surrender option for QM at least. Too often get silly comps like having no warrior or you get 2 specialists and 2 supports
Because people are already saying "GG" after losing the first team fight. They don't bother waiting until the game is hopeless (which honestly it never is) to give up, and adding a surrender button would just encourage them to be even more toxic begging their team to surrender ASAP.

And there is a ton of comeback potential in this game if people would just stop giving up on winning so early in the game.
I'm not really invested in it all that much, but arguments I see against it are typically:

  • The ability to surrender will stop losing teams from finding and taking comeback opportunities.
  • Trolls will attempt to bully their team into surrendering if they experience personal failures (dying once, losing first objective, etc.)
  • Games are short enough that unless the winning team intentionally drags it out, there should be no need to make it end quicker.
  • These are valid. but I've also personally seen some validity in pro-surrender arguments, too. I've grown to think that maybe a surrender button that only becomes active in EXTREME situations (being 4-5 levels behind for some time, two people quit or DC for some time, etc.) after the 10-15 minute mark would be a decent compromise, although people see this and immediately claim that I'm a pro-surrender "crybaby:
    If everyone gave up with the surrender button, then there would be no comebacks, and that's always my favorite part of playing this game.
    08/22/2018 04:11 PMPosted by ElRagu
    Why isn't there a compromise between both camps (pro and anti surrender button)?


    Because the conditions under which a surrender option can't be abused are the same as the ones for when the game will be over in ~30 seconds anyway.
    I think a surrender button could be a good thing if implemented properly, though admittedly I couldn't say exactly what a proper implementation would be (I have a suggestion below, though).

    However, here are my counter-points to the most common objections to a surrender button:

    1. "Games are too short to justify a surrender option"

    Blizzard also advocates this position. The problem is that to say games are "too short" to justify a surrender button suggests there IS an average game length where a surrender button would be justified. But that number is purely arbitrary, everyone would have a different opinion of what it would be. I have yet to see anyone, including Blizzard, explain exactly WHY the average match length of 20 minutes is the magical number that makes a surrender option unjustified.

    2. "Comebacks happen"

    Another point that Blizzard has officially made. Comebacks do happen, that's true. It's also true that comebacks don't happen. In fact, comebacks happen far less often than they do, despite the mechanics of the game being tailored to comebacks. For every game where the losing team comebacks, there are plenty of games where the losing team doesn't comeback. If Team A is ahead 4 levels and Team B has lost all of their structures, which team would you bet on to win? You would be forgiven for betting on Team A; if you HAD to put money on it, I imagine you wouldn't much care about the fact that comebacks happen every now and then.

    3. "A surrender button would make players more toxic/give up more easily"

    Not really. If a player says "GG" at minute 1:00 when the enemy team spills first blood and decides to throw the match, a surrender button isn't going to make that any more likely, it just adds an extra step before they AFK or feed or whatever they do to throw the match.

    That said, I'd like to offer an idea for a surrender button. Make it so that each player on the team has to press the button to surrender. However, no one is informed if you press the button, not the enemy team, not even your own team mates. You can retract your intention to surrender at any time. Of course, you can advertise in chat that you're wanting to surrender, but that's up to you. Once everyone has hit the button, a notice appears saying that your team wants to surrender, and a final unanimous vote is needed to surrender (this could be unnecessary, though, maybe just a notice like "your team has voted to surrender, leaving the match in X seconds" or something).

    Once your team surrenders, the heroes all become AI and the enemy team continues playing an AI match, so as not rob them of their win. They are not informed of a surrender should one occur. The team that surrendered gets a loss and everything that goes with it.

    Also include anything to prevent it from being abused like only allowing players to hit the surrender button after a certain amount of time has passed, or only allowing players to press the button twice or something so they can't keep pressing it and retracting to troll their team.
    I hope they add a surrender button so all of you people who report everyone for doing anything will just see how weak you all really are.

    You wont ever finish one game if there is a surrender button. Come 11mins (or sooner) you will decide to give up and surrender.

    ==========
    Gill
    Grand Marshal, Defender of the Crimson Court
    08/22/2018 04:11 PMPosted by ElRagu
    Why is the community against a surrender button?

    It has been proven (in other games) that a surrender button

    1. Leads to greater toxicity
    2. Kills team morale
    3. Destroys any chances of comebacks

    A surrender button would be a net negative for this game.

    08/22/2018 04:22 PMPosted by Rakanadyo
    two people quit or DC for some time, etc.

    This is one of the few positive exceptions.
    I dont see how you can possibly come back after your whole lane was smashed in first 5 min of the game.

    It got wrecked because of the effort of individuals on your team refusing to soak or help do the right/important thing at the time. Or it was simply lost because you cannot cope with the pressure because of bad team comp. Or you got luck of teammates DCing and are stuck with suicidal bots.

    Things are unlikely to change personality - wise for the individuals causing problems. They will just keep on soloing, feeding or whatever. There wont be any team fight come - back.

    You are just forced into an avg of 15 min of torment in most games where a surrender option is needed.
    08/22/2018 04:55 PMPosted by SeymourButts
    I think a surrender button could be a good thing if implemented properly, though admittedly I couldn't say exactly what a proper implementation would be (I have a suggestion below, though).

    However, here are my counter-points to the most common objections to a surrender button:

    1. "Games are too short to justify a surrender option"

    Blizzard also advocates this position. The problem is that to say games are "too short" to justify a surrender button suggests there IS an average game length where a surrender button would be justified. But that number is purely arbitrary, everyone would have a different opinion of what it would be. I have yet to see anyone, including Blizzard, explain exactly WHY the average match length of 20 minutes is the magical number that makes a surrender option unjustified.

    2. "Comebacks happen"

    Another point that Blizzard has officially made. Comebacks do happen, that's true. It's also true that comebacks don't happen. In fact, comebacks happen far less often than they do, despite the mechanics of the game being tailored to comebacks. For every game where the losing team comebacks, there are plenty of games where the losing team doesn't comeback. If Team A is ahead 4 levels and Team B has lost all of their structures, which team would you bet on to win? You would be forgiven for betting on Team A; if you HAD to put money on it, I imagine you wouldn't much care about the fact that comebacks happen every now and then.

    3. "A surrender button would make players more toxic/give up more easily"

    Not really. If a player says "GG" at minute 1:00 when the enemy team spills first blood and decides to throw the match, a surrender button isn't going to make that any more likely, it just adds an extra step before they AFK or feed or whatever they do to throw the match.

    That said, I'd like to offer an idea for a surrender button. Make it so that each player on the team has to press the button to surrender. However, no one is informed if you press the button, not the enemy team, not even your own team mates. You can retract your intention to surrender at any time. Of course, you can advertise in chat that you're wanting to surrender, but that's up to you. Once everyone has hit the button, a notice appears saying that your team wants to surrender, and a final unanimous vote is needed to surrender (this could be unnecessary, though, maybe just a notice like "your team has voted to surrender, leaving the match in X seconds" or something).

    Once your team surrenders, the heroes all become AI and the enemy team continues playing an AI match, so as not rob them of their win. They are not informed of a surrender should one occur. The team that surrendered gets a loss and everything that goes with it.

    Also include anything to prevent it from being abused like only allowing players to hit the surrender button after a certain amount of time has passed, or only allowing players to press the button twice or something so they can't keep pressing it and retracting to troll their team.


    Actually, once the enemy team becomes all AI, the match ends and you win immediately.
    the communist do not want a surrender button and He himself is a follower of Marx but i feel that they should at least let you surrender when all 4 of your teammates leave and turn into beginner artificial intelligence because it is much frustrate when you are stranded and have to have 4 teammates follow you only to get flamestriked and get put to death swiftly
    08/22/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Spyro
    I dont see how you can possibly come back

    Bad players can't see the path to victory.
    I really dont know why ppl hate this idea... if you are in a team of feeders chat muted trolls/russians what can you do? the enemy is 4 lvl ahead of you, what can you do? there is an enemy genji what can you... yeah you get the idea
    its a waste of time. I usually just leave the game because that penalty you get is worthless anyway if you only play quickmatch at least but yeah if I leave the game and my team thats better than a surrender button? ok then

    maybe there is no surrender button because some matches would be shorter than the matchmaking time? oh... ooooh
    No-one is forcing you to play you can surrender at anytime by leaving the match and taking the surrender penalty. There can be no compromise on this because there either is an in game supported surrender option or there isn't. I can't wait to see gills next i got banned for two months thread in September!
    08/22/2018 06:59 PMPosted by Bou
    08/22/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Spyro
    I dont see how you can possibly come back

    Bad players can't see the path to victory.

    We're not all playing only vs AI like you.
    Can't you read the previous threads? We're tired of repeating
    08/22/2018 04:11 PMPosted by ElRagu
    Edit: I'm not really sure why people are disliking my post where I'm asking why the community why they have their beliefs on a topic. Shouldn't this be where I post something that I think should be discussed?


    Probably because it means you already saw the other posts which had the community's opinion for pro/anti surrender button, where they already expressed their beliefs on the topic.
    and all this post is, is that u found out ( correctly or not) that there are more people against it which doesnt fit what u want.
    08/22/2018 04:11 PMPosted by ElRagu
    Why is the community against a surrender button?


    1) because its one of the things blizz has said isn't going to happen (link can be found with a quick search for 'surrender')

    2) because nobody bothers to make a worthwhile case for the option

    3) others games have used surrender features are are either undesirable or have circumstances around their implementation that's undesirable for HoTS

    3) the mindset for advocating for 'surrender' is largely incompatible with the game environment here. The claims for it tend to be out of circumstances that are unbecoming of teamwork, the observational demands to excel at the game, the desire to actually play (and not just hope to reroll and essentially get carried on the next match) and tend to undermine 'discussion' with the notion that the suggestion trumps anything else.

    4) cuz people don't put in effort to 'discuss' it, they just demand it to be there, act like no other discussions have happened before, lack worthwhile reasonings aside from some inconvenience for the claim and otherwise tend to be uninformed when they don't need to be.

    5) a compromise would need offer a benefit to 'either side', to which none is given. The effectual notion for 'surrender' is just that: assuming people to surrender their take for the appeasement of another. If people wouldn't bother with the above, and improve how they conduct their position, then sure, they might come up with a 'compromise' or rather, would likely not be in favor of 'surrender' in the first place.

    Part of the basis of how people propose 'surrender' is an inherent flaw with how they argue for the case in the first place (or rather don't) So if said effort were put in to offset the inherent issues with how they propose to suggest how to 'compromise' the 'feature', they probably wouldn't then want it.
    Very much topic talk about surrender, use Search in this forum.

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