Why do MOBA's purposely fail the player in matchmaking?

General Discussion
I'm pretty sure it's hard to balance skill verses hero countering potential. After all, if a player does not know how to optimally play their hero, they are a wild card and a lynchpin in how the match is going to play out.

Not many people know when to go in as fat illidan or regular illidan, manage their cooldowns and so on, but people who do know can be oppressive if paired poorly.

It's hard to gauge matches like that, however there should be no exceptions when matches are basically genji, tracer, hanzo, anubarak and kharazim against a match that's basically 5 mages.
08/29/2018 10:21 AMPosted by zenasprime
08/29/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Ephemiel
the basic concept of a matchmaker is matching people OF SIMILAR SKILL?


No, it matches players who have similar relative win/loss records. It has absolutely no way of determining something as subjective as "skill".

If you don't understand the difference, ask yourself this question: What "skills" does the match maker record, analyze, and compute to determine a player's MMR? I'm interested in hearing what your answer is.


..... win/lost ratios is what matchmaking systems since always have considered "skill". You tried to act smart, yet failed miserably.
08/29/2018 03:19 PMPosted by Laparo
Satisfied, or what does your gut tell you?


As interesting of a look into the dynamics of player ratings that HotsLogs provides us, what you are looking at is not accurate. Blizzard has stated this many time in the past. You should also stop obsessing over the data you obtain from a site that's notoriously inaccurate at predicting player ratings. Instead you should focus on providing the best experience you can for you team despite the occasional challenge.

I know that you don't want to hear this but Quick Match is never going to provide absolutely fair and even matches. Not only does quick match have to provide players with a QUICK means of getting into a game, it has to provide that feature to parties of various sizes, members of which are not limited to any particular rating. A bronze player can party up with his Masters friend and queue up just a effortlessly as two Masters players. This alone provides for significant hurtles for the match maker to make matches that get players into games quickly.

Quick Match just isn't the mode you should be looking towards to find anything but a quick way to get into a game.
Short answer:
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THE answer:
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08/29/2018 04:28 PMPosted by Ephemiel
<span class="truncated">...</span>

No, it matches players who have similar relative win/loss records. It has absolutely no way of determining something as subjective as "skill".

If you don't understand the difference, ask yourself this question: What "skills" does the match maker record, analyze, and compute to determine a player's MMR? I'm interested in hearing what your answer is.


..... win/lost ratios is what matchmaking systems since always have considered "skill". You tried to act smart, yet failed miserably.


What "skill" is that exactly?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
08/29/2018 04:56 PMPosted by zenasprime
<span class="truncated">...</span>

..... win/lost ratios is what matchmaking systems since always have considered "skill". You tried to act smart, yet failed miserably.


What "skill" is that exactly?

I'm curious to here your thoughts.
I want to read your mind too. Hear your thoughts. Taste your soul.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

What "skill" is that exactly?

I'm curious to here your thoughts.
I want to read your mind too. Hear your thoughts. Taste your soul.


Why can't you just say what "skill" this is that you think MMR tells you a player will exhibit while you are playign with them?

You seem to have very strong opinions that the MM should be able to place you into a game with players what are just as "skillful" as you are but you don't seem to be able to articulate what those "skills" are.
08/29/2018 04:45 PMPosted by zenasprime
You should also stop obsessing over the data you obtain from a site that's notoriously inaccurate at predicting player ratings.


Hotslogs is the closest we'll get at this point and this site has always been a good indicator for estimating where you are as a player and where heroes individually are in the current meta and their power level.

08/29/2018 04:45 PMPosted by zenasprime
I know that you don't want to hear this but Quick Match is never going to provide absolutely fair and even matches.


At this point you've confirmed for me that you've been ignoring my posts as this was one of my opening statements on page 1.

08/28/2018 10:46 PMPosted by Laparo
Understand that the argument is QM and it will never be balanced. Master QM MMR is basically Gold HL ranking but the point is that you'd ideally want to play with and against simillarly ranked players regardless of queue to create interesting games.


You're either trying to aggravate people around you for the fun of it or you're completely clueless. You almost succeeded, I'll give you that since I thought it was a genuine discussion at first. However I've got great patience thanks to my lil' brother so I'll stop from here as it's no longer interesting.
the point is that you'd ideally want to play with and against simillarly ranked players regardless of queue to create interesting games.


So if a Masters and a Bronze friend queue up together in QM they shouldn't be put into a game because it may ruin your ability to find a fair match? What is it about your absurd position that I'm not understanding?
Because you can be a Master Support, but a Gold Assassin. No one is amazing with every Hero.
Matchmaking in hots is much better than is was in warcraft3, and in my experience, miles ahead of league of legends.

So yeah, I don't know. I think between horrible queue times and perfect balance, hots isn't perfect, especially how it handles pre-mades, but it's really not bad at all
08/29/2018 02:41 PMPosted by aubergine
Just look at the matchmake patches they role out like the PBMMR, the double reset a few seasons ago or QM at the start of this season. Also the players have been waiting 6 month to get a higher match quality. Has anybody seen it? I have just seen a significant higher queue time and a lot of good players quitting this game for good reasons.


To be fair, they aren't good coders and designers to begin with. Constantly changing their povs, never sticking to something and never actually changing the core issues with the game, the matchmaker.

I really don't understand how these people can have this kind of job. They should do themselves a favor and make room for more talented people who actually care about their players and don't bull!@#$ behind our backs.
08/30/2018 03:49 AMPosted by Miles

To be fair, they aren't good coders and designers to begin with. Constantly changing their povs, never sticking to something and never actually changing the core issues with the game, the matchmaker.

I really don't understand how these people can have this kind of job. They should do themselves a favor and make room for more talented people who actually care about their players and don't bull!@#$ behind our backs.


I mean for me this is a leadership problem. They seem to have accepted that every matchmake patch fundamentally breaks something and needs to be rolled back. It's one of the worst states you can have since it would be better to leave it as it is forever.
08/30/2018 03:49 AMPosted by Miles
08/29/2018 02:41 PMPosted by aubergine
Just look at the matchmake patches they role out like the PBMMR, the double reset a few seasons ago or QM at the start of this season. Also the players have been waiting 6 month to get a higher match quality. Has anybody seen it? I have just seen a significant higher queue time and a lot of good players quitting this game for good reasons.


To be fair, they aren't good coders and designers to begin with. Constantly changing their povs, never sticking to something and never actually changing the core issues with the game, the matchmaker.

I really don't understand how these people can have this kind of job. They should do themselves a favor and make room for more talented people who actually care about their players and don't bull!@#$ behind our backs.


o.O

What kind of job do you have that you have the expertise to make this kind of judgement?
08/29/2018 01:53 PMPosted by XxBloodSkyxX
08/29/2018 03:43 AMPosted by Creeper
...
I don't have to be American to learn their language.
then why broadcast your confusion?


I was just asking a question because i've seen some noobs talk like that before. You could have just answered "no" but it looks like i struck a nerve. I think i've got the answer now so don't worry anymore.
08/30/2018 04:59 AMPosted by Creeper
08/29/2018 01:53 PMPosted by XxBloodSkyxX
...then why broadcast your confusion?


I was just asking a question because i've seen some noobs talk like that before. You could have just answered "no" but it looks like i struck a nerve. I think i've got the answer now so don't worry anymore.
glad i could clear up your confusion sorry to hear about your nerves nothing i can do about that

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