Do we have enough heroes that counter divers?

General Discussion
Quick question. I just really hate divers like tracer, khara, zera, val, etc. Not ETC I mean like etc.
anything with a stun
08/29/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Tazrizen
Quick question. I just really hate divers like tracer, khara, zera, val, etc. Not ETC I mean like etc.


Well … personally I have great success using brightwing to crap on divers.

Any stun can pretty much ruin a divers day... Slows help a lot too. I guess it really comes down to gameplay / map awareness / positioning. Its hard to dive if the enemy team doesn't position badly.
Depends on the dive hero, and what aspect they're* reliant on. AA, sustain, mobility, etc.
You have the traditional counter to divers like BW, Falstad and Thrall.

However I would say the game has a lot more in the ways of counter engaging. Generally a diver (assuming assassin) is quite squishy. In the event your reactions are adapt you can counter them with the likes of Diablo, Maiev and Gul'dan.

All with appropriate heroics of course to accomplish this task if divers would be the most dangerous aspects of the enemy team. It's all relative to the map/comp you're facing so hard to tell.
Brightwing, and Uther do well.

Any tank hero that actually holds their abilities to peel for the back line instead of blowing their entire rotation to do low damage is a great counter to dive heroes.
Meh-Fist-Oh might me good with his root ult that can silence for 3sec after rooting at 20.

Dive in, get rooted, get silenced, get dead. It's like two ults in one.
Yes brightwing, uther, lili (depends on if they are auto attack heroes but she can ruin their day if they are), johanna, cassia to some extent, taunt varian, tyrande (stun and trait on any diver leaves them in a bad place).
Ok, let me rephrase my question:

Basically I'm having really REALLY bad luck with fighting divers when I play uther and BW, I generally have to rely on my team 100% to followup, they almost never do.

What can I play to REALLY punish divers by myself.
In addition to the ones already mentioned, Auriel, Medivh, Yrel, and Anub'arak can make most dive heroes regret their life choices.
08/29/2018 05:10 PMPosted by BFGOMFG
anything with a stun


Anything with a 'point-n-click' stun, we ended up nerfing valeera and varian
08/29/2018 06:09 PMPosted by Tazrizen
Ok, let me rephrase my question:

Basically I'm having really REALLY bad luck with fighting divers when I play uther and BW, I generally have to rely on my team 100% to followup, they almost never do.

What can I play to REALLY punish divers by myself.

That is going to depend on the dive hero in question. Generally, tanks or high CC bruisers have the easiest time dealing with divers on a personal level. Some of the assassins can handle them, such as Maiev or Alarak, but it tends to take a bit more skill to deal with them without a reliable stun.
08/29/2018 06:09 PMPosted by Tazrizen
Basically I'm having really REALLY bad luck with fighting divers when I play uther and BW, I generally have to rely on my team 100% to followup, they almost never do.

What can I play to REALLY punish divers by myself.


You probably won't be able to do it by yourself. If you're the tank, you need to be close enough to the backline so you can respond to divers effectively while still being a meat shield.

When I play Brightwing, I declare to my team that the "sheep has -25 armor" because I love taking that talent. That usually incentivizes people to shoot the CC'd target. Just make it clear that people need to focus the diver and stick together and in theory it's an easy kill.
08/29/2018 06:09 PMPosted by Tazrizen
Ok, let me rephrase my question:

Basically I'm having really REALLY bad luck with fighting divers when I play uther and BW, I generally have to rely on my team 100% to followup, they almost never do.

What can I play to REALLY punish divers by myself.


Whenever you're playing those 2 you should be staying close to a potent damage dealer already.

I have very minimal experience with BW, but Uther does have very nice tools to deal with divers within his E build. You can take that one at level 1. Level 4 is kinda what you prefer since it's not breaking the build but I prefer Holy Fire. Next at 13 his Well Met talent is absolutely amazing at crushing a divers dreams. Combined with the CDR from the level 1 talent I believe it's possible to keep up next to full uptime. Obviously hard to do as you're a melee character but the CDR goes a long way to continuously lower their damage output.

Personally I'm a huge fan of Divine Storm. It's basically the entire reason I would like to play Uther besides his chill personality. The stunlock is very potent and actually does a very respectable amount of damage. If you have someone next to you that could combo with you, like a mage or another caster like Alarak you could be blowing up a diver before they can do anything about it.
Honestly the fact that divers have to clump around a target to focus is enough of a counter imo.

Considering how much AOE damage exists. This forces divers to either:

A. Draft only one driver.

B. Eat a bunch of extra damage and tax support resources.

C. Spread there focus and damage out making it harder to secure kills.

Of course results vary from hero to hero, build to build. But these are general observation.
Old Raynor with bullseye and double barreled used to be the best at it (and relentless leader if the enemy dive typicaly stuns), he still has pen shot and a solid AA of course so he still good at it, but not as much as double knockback stuns was.

Interestingly enough valera and butcher are both solid anti dive if they stay back with their backline instead of flanking by essentially diving the diver. heck sometimes you have to do this with butcher if the enemy doesnt present any good engages.

08/29/2018 06:09 PMPosted by Tazrizen
Ok, let me rephrase my question:

Basically I'm having really REALLY bad luck with fighting divers when I play uther and BW, I generally have to rely on my team 100% to followup, they almost never do.

What can I play to REALLY punish divers by myself.


normaly a suport is not going to win a 1v1 against an assasin or bruiser (which are normaly the guys who dive), however they can often survive and get away so that the team can followup. uther just stuns and walks away toward someone who can help, either ult will buy plenty of time. Brightwing polymorphs and then gets out of dodge, either with a speed boost from fairy dust, a teleport from Z or a teleport from R. And emrald dream makes plenty of space as well.
my best success against diver is Uther with stun ult.
Also Valeera is insane for punishing any diver or by extent any hero who try engaging a bit far from his teamates
My friend. Valeera is your answer.

Tracer or Genji come within your range, cloaked or not? Instant-silence them and just start ripping them for thousands and thousands of damage

Take crippling poison at level 1, and Q every talent. If point-and-click slow and 2.5 second silence aren't good enough punishment, how about being able to 100-0 them in almost the same duration? Her damage is insane dude. You just have to learn what her engagement potential is in and out of stealth. But if a diver comes in? To a Valeera? It's !@#$ing pounding time.

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