Loot chest abolished in Belgium!

General Discussion
08/31/2018 04:19 PMPosted by doctordeath
08/30/2018 10:50 PMPosted by SeymourButts


Okay. Imagine a restaurant where you can't order the dish you want, you just pay a flat fee and a random dish is given to you.


Is a gun being held to my head and am I being forced to eat at this restaurant, or can I go to the one down the street that lets me pick?

I don't recall anyone being forced to play this game, or being forced to have cosmetics. I also don't recall being forced to go to any particular restaurant, but if one had a random menu that actually sounds kinda cool.

"Some people aren't able to control themselves so we need the government to control all of us" Seriously !@#$ right off.


You're right, nobody is forcing you to eat at this restaurant, so you go to a different one. That one also only offers random dishes. So does the next one and the next one. Pretty soon, they ALL have random dishes, because restaurant owners have realized that they can get away with it.

Loot boxes are a shady, predatory, anti-consumer practice which Blizzard can get away with because of player apathy. My concern is that this apathy will start bleeding into real life. You like that sweet Avengers Infinity War movie? Too bad, you have to pay for a bunch tickets to other shows you don't want to see until you get the show you do want to see. The theater makes a lot more money than normal doing this. But nobody really cares that much, so they get to keep doing it.

Not sure what you mean about the government comment. I should have clarified before that I don't much care about the legal status of loot boxes and whether it's considered gambling or not. I just think they're wrong and nobody should buy them.
08/31/2018 09:04 AMPosted by Werbs713
If you want to argue that the loot box business model is bad, in right there with you. To claim that loot boxes are bad because it's gambling, in going to tell you that you are totally wrong.

I can respect people not liking the lootbox system. That's subjective preference and totally valid for someone to just dislike a system and/or prefer other systems.

Calling it gambling is just wrong. Gambling in a this context involves putting money at risk for a chance to win something of value (typically more money). With HOTS lootboxes, you aren't risking anything. You are guaranteed some minimum level of content (items or shards for duplicates). Furthermore, because the items are non-transferrable they have no out-of-game value so it is not possible to chase after some rare item in the hopes of making a profit by selling it elsewhere.

In this case, I would say that the way Blizzard does lootboxes is even more distinct from gambling than other companies' implementation. Compare the way Blizzard does it to CS:GO or even trading card games where there is the potential to profit off random chance.
But if you are patient enough you just get free stuff over time.... I like that part of loot boxes
08/31/2018 03:05 PMPosted by Dagordae
The literal only reason to play Mann Up mode was the gambling aspect. The ONLY thing that it changed was you got a random cosmetic kit and some of the parts required to put said kit together.
There was no ‘Gambling aspect’ the entire mode was gambling. Everything except the reward was completely free and always accessible.
How is that any different than buying a lootbox?

Initialy bootcamp was a hell mode to play in.
- Players were significantly worse compared to those who played in mann up.
- Pinion was extremely anoying to be faced
- Half of the servers had horrible configs and many of them would deadlock. Realy fun to face this in wave 5/7... Not to mention that it switches maps randomly or used mods that broke even more things.
Mann up for me was a quality assurance. I at least knew what i would face. And its reward initialy wasnt too overkill on the gambling part (gold botkillers werent that valuable, even with a gold botkiller you wouldnt make money as the botkiller was worth only 1/3 of what you would pay to play the tour to begin with), 2cities made this a hell since they introduced weapons which had massive value (killstreakers and australiums)

Most of my MvM time was spent in my own server testing maps and missions.

The example i tried refer to is a pay to play mode. And although mann up was a bad example, there was still a part that didnt make it problematic. And in the meantime i already know a better example: Arcade machines.

And also, guess why i stopped playing tf2... mapping was fun for a while, but at some point it was clear to see the way valve was going, and it was clear it was only going to get worse after every update. To a state a part of the MvM community actualy started to hate valve.
08/31/2018 03:05 PMPosted by Dagordae
And, a quick question, how did Belgium word their decision to specifically only target online loot boxes?

Im dutch, so on that i cant tell how the belgium did it as it varies a bit.
08/31/2018 03:05 PMPosted by Dagordae
Because otherwise they just banned the sale of trading card packs.
You know, the things where you get a bunch of random cards hoping for one of the rare ones? Or does that not count as gambling despite being the same thing?

And this is something that is still being discussed in the netherlands. And the reason why atm it is still accepted is because there is still a barrier for payment. But its very likely this is going to be handled the same way.
08/31/2018 03:05 PMPosted by Dagordae

Banning one of the best ways to fund a F2P to protect children from terrible parenting is just stupid.

Thats why alcohol is banned to be purchased by people under the age of 18. It proved that parents dont care. Even when the age was 16, it was common for 12y old to drink. Or the incidents where you still have kids drive their parents car without permission. Or expecting people to properly handle guns.
Trusting the parenting part is a horrible thing to do. Simply because you cant expect each parent to do its task well, and thats not just at the parenting part, its about behaviour in general.

Lootbox models are quite new in games, and it took a while to find out its a problem. But that doesnt mean you cant act against the problem now.
With trading card packs, you're getting physical items that you can trade for whatever you want, or even buy individually at most game shops. It means that the value of even a common card just depends on if you can find someone who wants it enough, meaning it's always at least theoretically possible to break even on your investment. Loot boxes, at least in the case of HOTS, don't let you trade their contents. The only form of "trading" is getting shards back for duplicates, which are always worth a lot less than getting an equivalent-rarity item you don't have would have been, basically making it a loss disguised as a win.
09/01/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Kayube
With trading card packs, you're getting physical items that you can trade for whatever you want, or even buy individually at most game shops. It means that the value of even a common card just depends on if you can find someone who wants it enough, meaning it's always at least theoretically possible to break even on your investment. Loot boxes, at least in the case of HOTS, don't let you trade their contents. The only form of "trading" is getting shards back for duplicates, which are always worth a lot less than getting an equivalent-rarity item you don't have would have been, basically making it a loss disguised as a win.

The fact that you can trade the card pack contents makes it more like gambling than HOTS loot boxes, not less.
Can you use prepaid game cards on loot chests? If so its only a matter of time before more countries ban this practice.

Loot boxes for $is gambling. Kids play this game and in most countries it is illegal to let minors gamble. EA already started this topic in the US tho with the disaster that was battlefront 2.
08/31/2018 06:28 AMPosted by Metro
Have loot chests as rewards and let people buy skins directly. Problem solved.
Well this is the exact reason why they have gem only bundles now because it forces you to spend money no matter what. I have never supported them and never will, awful business practice.
09/01/2018 10:14 AMPosted by Kayube
With trading card packs, you're getting physical items


Interesting point regarding the comparison of loot boxes to trading cards. Trading cards are random and have also been around for generations but have not been considered a gambling issue.

I believe the reason for that is the change in payment method.

Traditionally, physical cards were bought from a shop which required talking with the shop keeper. If a kid showed up with Dad's stolen credit card that would raise a red flag.

The guilt of that interaction with the seller would be enough to deter a typical kid from obtaining money unlawfully. Their obsession with collecting (and gambling through that means) would be maintained before it got out of control.

Through the rise of online purchases, if the parent isn't careful, the temptation to steal Dad's credit card to obtain items is there. It can all be done without having to be flagged by a shop keeper.
Yeah, no kid ever filched his dad's change to get stuff in the olden days . . .
09/01/2018 06:39 PMPosted by Morthion
Yeah, no kid ever filched his dad's change to get stuff in the olden days . . .


Very true. Well that debunked that theory.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum