De-work a Hero. Reworks you want undone.

General Discussion
Tassadar for sure.
09/04/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Maximus


My second pick would be Hammer. I loved being able to zone for my team, but now it feels more like my team has to zone for me. Give me back my 18.3 max range at level 20!


Say what? in my over 2,000 Hammer games I have never felt like i couldn't zone, and the rework only made her even more terrifying unless you were too lazy to actually learn when and how to press E. It's to the point where I basically can't be moved by any one enemy hero save a Genji or Illidan unless I mess up badly, and with a teammate or two we just roll down lanes utterly dominating them because nobody can stop a well-supported Hammer. So I guess we're playing different Heroes.
Tyrande - She may be better in some ways...but she is boring now. The only way I win with her is playing boring and safe. It's just not fun. I'm a level 72 Tyrande...it took me so long to get good with her...much of that work is lost. They also gutted her mana mitigation...meaning she must be so conservative with her abilities. She only begins to be fun at 16...and that is a boring way to play.

Chromie - But then again Chromie was designed to be a character that will destroy noobs. Just like Butcher, Blizzard had to nerf her to the ground because noobs will feed and complain.

Blizzard must work on educating players to get better...or else do what they are doing now...turn all their interesting characters into boring ones.
It's sad that no one has mentioned Stukov yet. He WAS my favorite healer with the quests. Popping pustules was my favorite quest and it felt really good to get that 4-5 man DING when I was able. It also made it feel like my healing got that much more powerful. Now, as Stukov, if I'm not standing with AT LEAST 2 other people, my healing is ineffective and weak. He didn't need talent diversity. He had plenty of builds. Arm build and healing build. That's all he needed. Blizzard's view of 'talent diversity' is strange because when they rework someone and claim they did it for 'talent diversity' it usually pigeon holes them into one build.

Also Malfurion. Was it really necessary to make him a hybrid? I liked healing people, and LOVED his slowing moonfire spam build. I could poke people out of lane with that build. Now his moonfires are weak and his healing suffers because of it.
09/06/2018 01:17 AMPosted by GroovyGhoul
Malthael to regain his title Angel of Death and not the Angel of annoyance.
Angel of Tickles and Pillow Fights.

09/06/2018 02:41 AMPosted by TheLiability
Shieldgod Artanis was also a lot of fun. Had his issues, but damn come lvl 16 you were quite hard to put down.
I loved that build. It usually took 3 enemy heroes, at least one of which was a Jaina, to put me down after I hit 16. That was back when Shield Surge really packed the power, not that it doesn't now. I'd literally single-handedly win 1v5s every now and then, which is probably a large part of why he was reworked. I think I had something like a 70+% winrate with him back then.

09/06/2018 01:36 PMPosted by Alienduck2
Blizzard's view of 'talent diversity' is strange because when they rework someone and claim they did it for 'talent diversity' it usually pigeon holes them into one build.
This is depressingly accurate. They did the same with Malthael.
09/06/2018 06:28 AMPosted by SiegeMachine
09/04/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Maximus


My second pick would be Hammer. I loved being able to zone for my team, but now it feels more like my team has to zone for me. Give me back my 18.3 max range at level 20!


Say what? in my over 2,000 Hammer games I have never felt like i couldn't zone, and the rework only made her even more terrifying unless you were too lazy to actually learn when and how to press E. It's to the point where I basically can't be moved by any one enemy hero save a Genji or Illidan unless I mess up badly, and with a teammate or two we just roll down lanes utterly dominating them because nobody can stop a well-supported Hammer. So I guess we're playing different Heroes.
Did you ever play pre-rework Hammer?

She's like pre-rework Malthael, completely different playstyle than currently.

My old build was this:
Ambush Protocol - 100% extra burst damage and a way to get the drop on enemy heroes at objectives.
Vigorous Assault - healed for 15% of basic attack damage done to primary target.
First Aid - heal for 35.5% of your maximum health over 6 seconds for even more sustain.
Napalm - this was back when Nexus Frenzy made OBFG undesirable.
First Strike or Giant Killer - more damage, one for dealing with long-range, tank-heavy, or dive comps and the other for everything else.
Graduating Range - back when it packed more punch, maxing out at 5.5 extra range instead of 3.
Nexus Frenzy - bonus 20% attack speed for 1.2 attack speed and bonus 20% range for 1.1 extra range.

Add up her 6.6 normal attack range, her 5 extra range in Siege Mode, her 5.5 extra Siege Mode range from Graduating Range, and the flat 1.1 range buff from Nexus Frenzy, and you'd total up a basic attack range of about 18.3, longer than any non-global basic ability's cast range range.

Additionally, her Trait granted 30% more damage against enemies further than 4 range away, and First Strike granted another 25% after not being attacked for more than 5 seconds, meaning anyone who dared enter into my range was taking 436 damage a pop from my basic attacks. Factor in the bonus attack speed from Nexus Frenzy, and I was dealing an absolutely insane 523 damage every second to a single target just with basic attacks. Throw in the 100% bonus damage on that first basic attack from Ambush Protocol, and I was dealing about 698 DPS for that first second.

Almost nothing could even touch me at that point. I could kill most assassins with about 4-6 seconds of focused fire without any abilities, and literally nothing but Tyrande's Sentinels and a select few ults could outrange me.
Chromie couldn't outrange me, and could only approach long enough to land two of her abilities on me, then she'd have to go back and Hearth or drink from a Fountain before she tried again. By the time she came back, I'd be back up to full health from healing off of minion waves or structures and using First Aid.

If you wanted to kill Hammer back then, you needed a ton of dive and/or CC. Stun her, blind her, root her, etc. so she couldn't damage, heal, or run away, and she was as good as dead. Hammer had lower health and no armor, so, despite her sustain, it was far easier to nuke her down as a group. But if the enemy team didn't hard focus her, she made killing her own team nearly impossible with all her zoning.

I want that back. I want to be able to sit in place and say, "See that line? Cross it. I dare you," again. I want to zone for my team again, instead of struggling to keep up with them as the enemy team baits them out of my range. I want to be able to stake out my territory as I see fit and pick and choose who I allow in.

I've played the new Hammer, and she has far lower consistent damage output compared to her pre-rework state. While she is less "squishy" with her new armor ability, she is far less durable overall between the nerfs to her self-sustain and range/zoning potential. She's not nearly as fun anymore, and she honestly feels less responsive and impactful now.
nova. valeera. thanks qm.
Thrall, i want my green jesus back
Does Mephisto being added into the game count? if it does it needs to be "reworked" asap
09/04/2018 04:20 PMPosted by Maximus
With the recent and ongoing string of unnecessary and/or mediocre-at-best reworks that we've been getting within the past year, I was wondering what reworks people are still the most upset about now.

Post the top couple reworks you'd like to see undone.
Chen. Chen's rework made no sense.
tyrande , she's stupid healbot now
09/04/2018 04:29 PMPosted by TheCeltic
Malthael.

The changes were an overall nerf, broke more than they fixed, changed his role, and alienated virtually everyone who enjoyed playing him.

Agreed.

His current design is dull to no end.
Just remove his basic attack cleave, so he can get some of his old power back in the right places (like increasing his trait damage from 1.75 to 2% of the enemy's max HP and reducing mana cost of his Q from 25 to 20 MP, so I can be a tank melter and not have to go OoM after every larger battle).
There are more tweaks he could use, but there are the main ones.

And really, it's this sort of 'taking a hero away with a rework' Blizzard is doing that is completely ruining this game for me.
I mean, I really can't freaking relax, take a hero, enjoy it, and master the damn bugger without fear that Blizzard will fly down and take the hero away from me for who knows what random reason!

I think this video sums up the idea much better than I can:
  • https://youtu.be/PhI-QLG_DJU
  • malthael, johanna, and tassadar are probably the worse reworks. because it just ruined their identity on what made them great and made them these boring and clunky heroes that were mostly nerfs. I think all 3 reworks are bad but in their own ways.
    The changed Tyrande so much, I don't see why they didn't just make a new hero. She's not as bad as I was expecting, but she's not tyrande... she's just another healer now.
    Oh boy, where to start. They killed Tassadar, Nova, Tyrael, Malthael, Tyrande, Malfurion... game is pretty much undone by now.
    For me i want a De-work on a character who didn't had any buff/nerf/major change for 2-2,5 years and still was a good and playable char in HL and even in HGC.
    To me she was one of the most balanced characters blizz made/released ever since the december of 2k15.
    I want the old Lunara back.
    The new one has tons of dmg and fancy new talents, but the way they reworked her, and the reason why they did just makes me sad.
    -The only thing Lunara needed is some different talents other than just wisp upg on lvl 4 and just for this they reworked her.
    -Moveing Unfair from 13 to 16 created a gap between lvl 10 and 16 where Lunara only has Utility talents and no dmg upg like before, only base line scaleing.
    -Choaking pollen needs 3 stack of poison to have as much impact/value like before along with the Giant killer.

    Over all my opinion is:
    The old Lunara needed a skilled player to have value in a match.
    The new Lunara was made "User" friendly and a cheap replacement for those who can't get 175 stack till the late game on Nazeebo.

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