About the 'Mephisto is Broken OP' Claims

General Discussion
Just leveled him to 16, his Q is under powered/ base damage, and yes he has a self heal option for Q for heroes hit level 4. His ult is not that big of a deal, if you can get it off more that 2 kills at 20 then you have perfect timing. he is armored as he should be and can be countered easily. his roll is poke, and start team fights, also flashing in to do a defensive/offensive block.

He can not carry a team. end of debate. so he is not OP by any metric, but he cleans up with a good team only. He has NO solo play at all, or camp, or any thing with out a team. He sets up the battle and can be used to push the favor to his team. His ult 9 times out of 10 only kills one or can be used at start of a fight with a good team to crush them but he does not do the damage every one on the team does, he can only set it off 2-4 max in a normal game.

So he can tip the scales on a close game making big difference but it is his team that has to be good for he can not carry anything alone. By definition that makes him under powered if anything. By that I mean his Q base should be Buffed, the only function it does is add a slow when hit and can heal meph and poke, does not do enough damage to be useful beyond that. Also his base damage needs to be raised (Buffed) his base damage does nothing, under 100 (40 at start I think), at 20 maybe close to 130, as a assassin he is super weak. Only thing he brings is poke and finish off the team.

By the way to say that it is a no talent skill to hit R, you are saying timing to hit that key at the right time to do max damage is not a skill (with a 2 min cool down so you may get it off a few times in a match), that is the thing 80% of the player base does not get that makes them horrible at this game, say it with me, TIMING. That is the number one skill people don't get with out that you will never be good at any moba. that is the base skill needed. So to say timing is not a skill shows how little you under stand. I'm not ripping on any of you just trying to wake you up to get a clue, how to play better.

ty
09/07/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Sarf
Press R to win at 20. Yes, he is balanced.
How is that different from Agathon Zeus? With the difference that he can simply double burst you with little to no coonterplay.
Mephisto really isn't that bad to play against. Even in QM. Fenix and Maiev were far more oppressive when they were released.
09/07/2018 03:51 AMPosted by Reno
Honestly he isn't good.

The complaints about the heroic are also silly.

I'd say complaints of Durance of Hate being... really underwhelming are kinda justified. On top of the 1sec wind up, the projectile doesn't travel very quickly, it's fairly easy for enemies to avoid the spreading effect even if they don't move the moment they see who you're aiming at, and the damage isn't anything to write home about, either.

Its level 20 upgrade would be good - great, even - if the base ability didn't feel so unreliable.
09/07/2018 11:14 PMPosted by OZ77
So to say timing is not a skill shows how little you under stand.

Well, since I said it takes almost no skill, you might be refering to my post. But if you really are, I shouldn't even be trying to defend myself: I did notice that the only skill it requires is timing, which I don't consider all that hard, considering there's a considerably large margin of error.
09/08/2018 01:27 AMPosted by FeralChaos
09/07/2018 03:51 AMPosted by Reno
Honestly he isn't good.

The complaints about the heroic are also silly.

I'd say complaints of Durance of Hate being... really underwhelming are kinda justified. On top of the 1sec wind up, the projectile doesn't travel very quickly, it's fairly easy for enemies to avoid the spreading effect even if they don't move the moment they see who you're aiming at, and the damage isn't anything to write home about, either.

Its level 20 upgrade would be good - great, even - if the base ability didn't feel so unreliable.
It feels like they intentionally made it under the standards because they didn't want to see again a damage heroic being bypassed for a CC heroic.
09/07/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Sarf
Press R to win at 20. Yes, he is balanced.


His ult isn't a big deal. He's never actually bursting your team down. His output potential is pathetically easy to play around except for his ultimate. It's just the only part you remember because "QQ I was safe and had gotten away." And unless the rest of his team did the actual work and busted your asses he's got no job to finish.
09/08/2018 08:43 AMPosted by Alexarius
It feels like they intentionally made it under the standards because they didn't want to see again a damage heroic being bypassed for a CC heroic.


I know this is going to blow your mind, but: Both of his Heroics do CC and both of his Heroics do Damage.

And really, why would Blizzard care if you prefer a CC Heroic over a Damage one? CC Heroics are almost always the better choice, as they usually set up Wombo Combos.
09/08/2018 11:09 AMPosted by Flinx
09/08/2018 08:43 AMPosted by Alexarius
It feels like they intentionally made it under the standards because they didn't want to see again a damage heroic being bypassed for a CC heroic.


I know this is going to blow your mind, but: Both of his Heroics do CC and both of his Heroics do Damage.

And really, why would Blizzard care if you prefer a CC Heroic over a Damage one? CC Heroics are almost always the better choice, as they usually set up Wombo Combos.
That's the only part of Mephisto that annoys me, really. Zeus' ult did not apply CC and I thought it was fair. Mephisto's is fair as well, but was the CC really necessary? The CC gives it a whole other dimension of usefulness compared to Zeus' damage only ult. We'll have to see how it plays out.
09/08/2018 03:03 AMPosted by CCORD
09/07/2018 11:14 PMPosted by OZ77
So to say timing is not a skill shows how little you under stand.

Well, since I said it takes almost no skill, you might be refering to my post. But if you really are, I shouldn't even be trying to defend myself: I did notice that the only skill it requires is timing, which I don't consider all that hard, considering there's a considerably large margin of error.

There are a number of threads about meph with most comments by people that have not played him saying he is OP with the ult, this was my response to the ignorance over Meph.

NO I don't even know what you posted but you seam to want a direct response so here you go.

Their is no margin of error, from this comment I can tell you have not played meph. You have a 2 min cool down, so maybe with in that 2 min after it is up you may get the right time to set it off, so now were talking about 4 min to hit team window, mind you this is pre level 20, most of the time you go to set it off you team mate will finish off the person your targeting. Now after level 20 at this point you get 1 shot, one opportunity to set it off, a lot of char do have counters to this skill I have seen them I'm not going to list who and what figure it out, but still your team trying to finish off the one your targeting, you cant see the hole team till you commit to trigger it so yes you do trigger on a specific target. With the long cast that can easily be interrupted and requiring a snow ball effect to be useful makes it rare that you can have such a impact on the game and it will be in 1 moment. So no his ult is not going to make a losing team win ever, he is not going to carry a team ever. So he can't be OP.

Now to the timing, to consider this a basic assumption shows how little you under stand about the game. And your not alone, most don't get it. Timing to team fight, to stop team fighting, to take camps, to get boss, to get on the objective, to not get objective and counter, to take the keep, to leave and not take the keep, to push core, to not push core, to chase for a kill, to not chase the rabbit to get the kill it is a trap, how long teams dead, how long is it till their cool down, Timing is every thing in this game that is all you need to play, again Timing is the only mechanic in the game that matters and every one over looks. That is why people suck at this game, you either get it or you are not even aware of it.

So now your welcome you have a direct response. Sorry if it come as brutal for that is not my intent and I still have not gone back to see you earlier post because I don't care what you said, as in I'm sure your saying the same things every one who has not played meph and think you have input to add, those people are all sounding the same, speaking from a place of ignorance spreading lies.
Anyways hope this helps good luck in the game.

Thank you
i guess I just don't see how they nerfed chromie and kel'thuzad because there was little counterplay, then introduced a global, team-wide finisher with a slow that damages for over half the health of abathur and at least two of the lost vikings. Do the people who made mephisto not talk to the people who decided to nerf ktz and chromie?
09/08/2018 06:35 PMPosted by normalice
i guess I just don't see how they nerfed chromie and kel'thuzad because there was little counterplay, then introduced a global, team-wide finisher with a slow that damages for over half the health of abathur and at least two of the lost vikings. Do the people who made mephisto not talk to the people who decided to nerf ktz and chromie?


This was my reaction exactly, but stated much more concisely than I have done lol.
09/08/2018 11:09 AMPosted by Flinx
09/08/2018 08:43 AMPosted by Alexarius
It feels like they intentionally made it under the standards because they didn't want to see again a damage heroic being bypassed for a CC heroic.


I know this is going to blow your mind, but: Both of his Heroics do CC and both of his Heroics do Damage.

And really, why would Blizzard care if you prefer a CC Heroic over a Damage one? CC Heroics are almost always the better choice, as they usually set up Wombo Combos.
This might blow your mind but a slow and a root are quite different and the damage those 2 heroics deal are a lot different too.

I can’t read minds yet, I can only make hypothesis about it and mine is that they simply wanted a damage ult to be more prominent because there are already a lot of CCs around there and Chain CCs is something that no1 ever liked. But again, this is my hypothesis.
09/07/2018 02:47 AMPosted by Lithary
I've seen people make claims about him being, but not limited to, OP, broken, and 'Blizzard's Money Grab Scheme'™ (so the usual).
However, I checked his stats on HotSLogs and, well, I really don't get on what do those people base their claims on.

Diamond/Master HL Mephisto has 13% popularity and 49.2% win rate (11th worst win rate), while Diamond Master TL Mephisto has 9.8% popularity and 47.2% win rate (2nd worst in rate).

Heck, even my personal experience doesn't say he's broken or anything, but didn't want to speak up since I like to check out the data first, and it seems I'm actually onto something here.

Whatever the case, I feel like the smartest thing to do would be to stop crying and simply learn how to play as, with, and against Mephisto since data indicates that that's the only issue here; people lacking experience.


Its the global ult, the kiddies cant handle it and its like trying to canoe upstream without a paddle.

Honestly, I think his basic skills need a little bit of a buff; skull doesn't do nearly enough damage. Nova is very situational at high level play and honestly does not do enough damage to compensate even with all the talents -- you might get 2 ticks on a person at pro level before they juke it.

I think with some tweaks to his ult, and some buffs to his basic skills he'll be okay. But as he stands i dont think he will be very popular at the pro level because he suffers from some major drawbacks.
-Shade should be able to cancel early, at pro level theyre just going to wait for you to pop back then your goose is cooked.

-Pros understand positioning is key in this game, which makes him hard to use effectivly at that level.

-His ults may be strong but the damage from his basic skills are weak, and are in need of a buff, landing skull and nova can be a major issue even when your good.

Will see how blizzard handles mephisto, but i do enjoy the hero so far.
Having played almost exclusively Mephisto this week (QM only), I gotta say...he's really NOT that powerful. While I've won most of my games WITH him, I've also won ALL of my games against him - because he's laughably easy to dodge and kill. People just haven't figured out how to counter-play him.

1. Sticky melee assassins simply OWN him. Varian. Illidan. Butcher. Thrall. You won't even take damage in a solo lane or a skirmish.

2. His wave clear sucks compared to most assassins.

3. He's terrible at camps.

4. Consume Souls is really only effective in QM, where you don't get comps or drafts to counter it.

5. The level 20 upgrade on Consume Souls is frankly garbage. It's difficult to actually secure a kill with this ult (a previous post mentioned all of the reasons why) and even if you do, the second cast likely won't do anything meaningful because the fight is probably already over and post-20 you will get one (MAYBE two) chances. If you are complaining about this talent, you clearly haven't seen a Mephisto that knows how to use the Mimic talent yet... XD
I'm just sick of seeing it every single time there's a Mephisto on the other team. It would be nice if they buffed Durance of Hate, so that he actually has a second ult.

DoH has to be the worst excuse for an ult that I've seen since Dragonstrike. Malf's E is a BASIC ABILITY, and is arguably better. At the very least, the root should last 3 seconds. That still wouldn't even make it as good as Jaina's ult, which roots for 3 seconds, does waaaay more damage, and is easier to land on multiple people.
He's the Lord of Hatred. Working as intended.
09/09/2018 01:35 AMPosted by FrostyTO
I'm just sick of seeing it every single time there's a Mephisto on the other team. It would be nice if they buffed Durance of Hate, so that he actually has a second ult.


That's Blizz fault for making it suck.

Mephisto has a Hero league win rate of 49% Blizzard might of actually released a balanced hero.

I was watching a twitch streamer on master league last night, and out of 4 games they only banned him once, when normally a new hero is a lock for bans this early. (Honorable Genji still gets the instant first ban lol)
Just about every hero can get a spell shield. Have it ready to turn on when u hear him ulting and it only tickles you
Make Consume Souls only deal damage at level 10. Save reveal and slow for level 20 Upgrade. No number-nerfs needed.
Now it's balanced.

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