save ur game - performance matchmaking

General Discussion
when?
oooooh performance matchmaking.

that means im gonna just shoot the tanks every single fight to make sure i rack up them damage numbers, then when the fight looks tough im gonna run off to solo lane, abandoning my team to die even if we can win it to make sure my KDA stays pristine, then i can go beef up my siege numbers in the furthest away lane.

and forget objectives. those dont increase my MMR. but stats do.
09/17/2018 07:28 AMPosted by LordShoe
oooooh performance matchmaking.

that means im gonna just shoot the tanks every single fight to make sure i rack up them damage numbers, then when the fight looks tough im gonna run off to solo lane, abandoning my team to die even if we can win it to make sure my KDA stays pristine, then i can go beef up my siege numbers in the furthest away lane.

and forget objectives. those dont increase my MMR. but stats do.


100% you will never do this. As soon as the match starts, your muscle memory will kick in and you'll play the same way you've played the last 2000 games.
09/17/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Lightning
100% you will never do this


if it means i'll beef my mmr up of course I would.
09/17/2018 07:36 AMPosted by LordShoe
09/17/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Lightning
100% you will never do this


if it means i'll beef my mmr up of course I would.


Doing what you outlined above would not increase your MMR under PBMM. From what we know about it already, it's an ever-adapting system that rewards the most successful playstyles. You could afk push a lane to pump up your numbers, but you'll still lose, and the system will learn that that particular playstyle is not good performance, so you won't get rewarded for doing stupid stuff like that.
It's quite naive to believe the PPBM system would be perfect and exactly knows what a successful playstyle is.. That's the main reason why it's not implemented yet.
09/17/2018 07:28 AMPosted by LordShoe
oooooh performance matchmaking.

that means im gonna just shoot the tanks every single fight to make sure i rack up them damage numbers


Thats not the problem at all.
Could be that there would be a way to crate an algorithm thats complex and intelligent enough to be accurate while also being un-exploitable.

Just imagine Blizzard would have such an algorithm ... there would be two major aspects for why such a system wouldnt be the savior people think it would be...

1) wouldnt get rid of the "problem" that you are playing with human being which simply have inconsistent skill. A high grandmaster player can still have bad games and if you get unlucky you might end up with two or even three mates that all just have a bad day or a few bad matchs. Their match history may say that they are insanely good in most of their games. Doesnt impact your bad experience in that specific match. Thats by far the biggest problem. People need to chill... relax and realize that having someone bad in your team doesnt mean that he doesnt belong to that MMR at all. He can just have a single bad day or even a single bad match.

2) another problem is the psychological aspects. Economics and sosociologists know that people feel more happy with a bad salary thats not objective than with a totally objective salary, even if it would be higher. Because being able to have excuses is insanely important for people. If all players would have a perfectly calculated MMR I would bet anything that like 99% are worse at HOTS than they think they are. But then their excuse is gone... "wait what ? I am realy just Silver ? And all my mates that look so bad are actually objectively Silver aswell ? I am not better than the people I create topics about ?!?!"

Such a system wouldnt be good at all. People would instantly rage, no matter how accurate the system would be. Even if it would be 100% accurate, just in theory ... people would create 50 topics per day "why the new system is broken and why they actually belong to Grandmaster"
When they want to shoot themselves in the other foot, they will reimplement PBMM.
09/17/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Lightning
Doing what you outlined above would not increase your MMR under PBMM. From what we know about it already, it's an ever-adapting system that rewards the most successful playstyles. You could afk push a lane to pump up your numbers, but you'll still lose, and the system will learn that that particular playstyle is not good performance, so you won't get rewarded for doing stupid stuff like that.


so what youre saying is that the only way to increase your MMR would be... to WIN!?!?!?!?

then what would be the point of personal performance if the system is just going to judge who wins?
09/17/2018 07:28 AMPosted by LordShoe
oooooh performance matchmaking.

that means im gonna just shoot the tanks every single fight to make sure i rack up them damage numbers, then when the fight looks tough im gonna run off to solo lane, abandoning my team to die even if we can win it to make sure my KDA stays pristine, then i can go beef up my siege numbers in the furthest away lane.

and forget objectives. those dont increase my MMR. but stats do.


Considering that behaviour makes you lose games, you will lose MMR. Remember: You only get MMR if you win.

Also, it makes other stats worse (kill participation, more deathtime by losing teamfights, less xp gained by losing said teamfights, less objective time/captured...).

Last but not least: It is NOT bad to attack the tank. A Valla/ZJ/Tychus/... aren't exactly able to ignore the tank/bruiser in most teamfights. It isn't their job to attack the highest priority target at all times. They have to attack the highest priority target that they can attack safely.

I've seen a thread on reddit once. Someone crying about the inability to carry. 16 average KDA, about 38% winrate. I think you can guess how that guy played.
No system is able to even out that difference in winrate. Even if someone like that profited from the system (which will not happen as other stats will suffer), he would drop super hard.
09/17/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Creeper
It's quite naive to believe the PPBM system would be perfect and exactly knows what a successful playstyle is.. That's the main reason why it's not implemented yet.


It's quite naive to think this system based on RNG is better off then a system that attempts to pit better players together. GG devil I do not forgive any of u devils GOD DOES NOT FORGIVE. you will remember me
09/17/2018 08:10 AMPosted by Rima
Last but not least: It is NOT bad to attack the tank. A Valla/ZJ/Tychus/... aren't exactly able to ignore the tank/bruiser in most teamfights. It isn't their job to attack the highest priority target at all times. They have to attack the highest priority target that they can attack safely.


Of course attacking a tank makes sense in many cases. The point was that players can deal meaningless damage. Players can do a lot of useless things in the game and still produce stats while doing "nothing".
Players don't soak exp but take fights where they have 0 kill potential. You can poke endlessly against a team with good health sustenance and you will get very high dmg stats but 0 kills..
09/17/2018 08:10 AMPosted by Rima
You only get MMR if you win.

NOVEL CONCEPT!

its almost like you should simply try to win instead of try to make these game-able systems
09/17/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Lightning
09/17/2018 07:36 AMPosted by LordShoe
...

if it means i'll beef my mmr up of course I would.


Doing what you outlined above would not increase your MMR under PBMM. From what we know about it already, it's an ever-adapting system that rewards the most successful playstyles. You could afk push a lane to pump up your numbers, but you'll still lose, and the system will learn that that particular playstyle is not good performance, so you won't get rewarded for doing stupid stuff like that.


You overestimate how good that system can be given the ressources it has. To successfully analize and compare ingame decisions needs a lot of ressources and a very very well made algorithm.
I doubt Blizz has a "among best of the world"-AI designer for this nor a serverfarm to bruteforce analize our games (if they have either, they should rethink their priorities tbh).

So all that happens is a comparison of metrics and at that point you can statpad to increase points gained. This means:
You play to win and as soon as you don`t believe in the win anymore, you statpad to loose less points. And statpadding won`t help comebacks, nor should the system influence in-game decisions
09/17/2018 07:28 AMPosted by LordShoe
oooooh performance matchmaking.

that means im gonna just shoot the tanks every single fight to make sure i rack up them damage numbers, then when the fight looks tough im gonna run off to solo lane, abandoning my team to die even if we can win it to make sure my KDA stays pristine, then i can go beef up my siege numbers in the furthest away lane.

and forget objectives. those dont increase my MMR. but stats do.


You'll also beef up your non participation reports nicely too.

Such a playstyle would see you lose more games then you win cause you aren't helping the team which would drop your mmr
09/17/2018 08:32 AMPosted by PlaymakeRR
You'll also beef up your non participation reports nicely too.

Such a playstyle would see you lose more games then you win cause you aren't helping the team which would drop your mmr


whaaaaaaaaa. youre saying if you lose you'd lose mmr anyways? hmm. maybe they should just base it off of who wins. because

09/17/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Rand
So all that happens is a comparison of metrics and at that point you can statpad to increase points gained. This means:
You play to win and as soon as you don`t believe in the win anymore, you statpad to loose less points. And statpadding won`t help comebacks, nor should the system influence in-game decisions
09/17/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Rand
So all that happens is a comparison of metrics and at that point you can statpad to increase points gained. This means:
You play to win and as soon as you don`t believe in the win anymore, you statpad to loose less points. And statpadding won`t help comebacks, nor should the system influence in-game decisions


In other words you won't have any comeback wins anymore, resulting in a lower winrate, resulting in lower MMR than if you played normally.

09/17/2018 08:20 AMPosted by LordShoe
NOVEL CONCEPT!

its almost like you should simply try to win instead of try to make these game-able systems


Yes, you can try to game the system. But by doing so, the game plays you.
09/17/2018 08:53 AMPosted by Rima
Yes, you can try to game the system. But by doing so, the game plays you.


nope. just like having zero deaths games the mvp system. its easy to figure out what games the mmr system.

"oh whats that, it rewards you X% of points for every merc camp? ok. check. It rewards you for simply being present for a little bit at the obj? okay check, show up, channel a little, then leave. maybe just step on the cap point once and go do something else. it has to reward you for stats, so make sure you stat pad. it must reward low deaths, so make sure to avoid deaths at all costs. etc.

if you think matches are bad now, you'd love seeing people say "well we're going to lose so now im just going to focus on saving my mmr. have fun"
09/17/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Creeper
It's quite naive to believe the PPBM system would be perfect and exactly knows what a successful playstyle is.. That's the main reason why it's not implemented yet.


It's also naive to believe you can game a system that probably wouldn't even know what a successful playstyle is.
09/17/2018 07:28 AMPosted by LordShoe
oooooh performance matchmaking.

that means im gonna just shoot the tanks every single fight to make sure i rack up them damage numbers, then when the fight looks tough im gonna run off to solo lane, abandoning my team to die even if we can win it to make sure my KDA stays pristine, then i can go beef up my siege numbers in the furthest away lane.

and forget objectives. those dont increase my MMR. but stats do.


Playing selfishly doesn't win you games. If you lose games, you'll still lose ~200 rank, but why should 4 other people also lose 200 because you were AFK laning for 20 minutes?

PBMM should "boost" your rank to the right level, not be a replacement for playing as a team. If a tank has 7 deaths but his team was able to secure objectives and kills, that tank should get a small bonus to his rank, even if the game was lost. Likewise, if a DPS has 11 deaths, was dead for 6 minutes and didn't kill anything, that person should lose more compared to the rest of their team.

Again, why punish team players for being paired with someone who played selfishly or actively fed? On the flipside, why reward players who had to be carried over the finish line?

The system as it stands is broken.

We should reward people for playing as a team and playing well, and if someone is consistently underperforming relative to their skill level, they need to be taken out of that skill bracket to where they can be an active participant of a team.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum