Should the difficulty of the game be increased ?

General Discussion
Should we increase the skill ceilling of the game / characters?

We constantly have people complaining about certain heroes when its an obvious case of L2P.

Im not talking about things like last hit on minnion i find that counter productive to a team game but mechanic in game like maps characters and so on that if the player wants to play higher level its them that need to adjust and not the game lowering its own standard every patch ( however i am looking for the 2 new rework, they looks pretty nice so far).
It seen like if a player cant play right they have no incentive to get better.
Nothing will ever tell a player in this game " you suck, now get better!"

I simply want this snow flake / weak minded player mentality gone at this point because i think its brining this whole thing down.
Step 1 would be to stop balancing the game around QM.
09/18/2018 06:06 AMPosted by Paradox
Step 1 would be to stop balancing the game around QM.


Is the game truly balanced around QM?

Last I heard, HotS was balanced around HL, which is where they pull the majority of their stats.
No.

Average player can barely handle the game as it is.

If we make it harder, the game will become total cluster!@#$ of clueless idiots running around doing more harm than good for their team.
Rank is incentive to get better
How would raising the skill ceiling change anything about that? (Or for that matter, how would you even achieve it?)

I mean, your problem is basically that people don't know enough. How would you solve that by adding even more things for them not to know about? (And for you to feel bad about them not knowing).
09/18/2018 07:16 AMPosted by happyscrub
Rank is incentive to get better

Not everyones plays rank and it doesnt fix the issue .

Here is a simple exemple of what i meant . if we take tassadar's force wall . its always a wall of 3 blocks ( force field) that are perpendicular to his line of sign/ casting point. If we were to make it a 3 charge skill but each of them would set 1 block at a time it would change a whole lot how a player can us it. A skillful player wouls be able to wall still but will not be limited to the dirrection of the wall. This way a skilled played would have more option and a average or low skilled player might fail at the placement at first but with practice and improvement they will be able to do the same as other better player.

Seing player managing to do something that they cant can be that one thing to push certain player improve , toxic players are most likely going to drop the character all together and pick something easier for them. Would it be hell for us at first ? Probably but it might be a way to increase the skills of the average players .
I'd say definitely.
But don't increase it for other characters by making such ults like Mephisto's that take close to no skill.
09/18/2018 07:42 AMPosted by CCORD
I'd say definitely.
But don't increase it for other characters by making such ults like Mephisto's that take close to no skill.

Agreed and a global ult that it unavoidable by normal means ( without stasis or protect) is something is was against to begin with lol there is litterally zero skill needed when someone presses R , no aiming, no skill shot, can be cast from anywhere, targets dont even need to be in sight ... And if they arebweak enough has the potential to wipe a whole team. A global ult that would deal no damage would be completely different for me but a unavoidable damaging ult is something im not a fan of.
The way i see it if we have a stronger average player all other levels of plays wins and the trolls are most likely going to weed themselves out because most trolls / toxic players fail to perform good anyway so theyll just drop or realise that after a while seing everyone else surpassing them they might be the issue ( unlikely but who knows lol )

Stronger base of player would most likely cause a better overall quality of play in all ranks and probably even QM.
Map design can be more complex, but if you make more complex heroes you run into problems balancing them with easier heroes. Should a very complex hero be much more powerful than an easy hero at high level play? If only a little more powerful then what's the point for someone to master it (excluding esports)?

The game has already established easy and hard heroes. If they want to up the complexity, they'll have to rework the easier heroes similar to Lol reworking older Champs like Katarina.
The game is already deceptively hard, and is the reason why most of us are still potatoez at it without realizing.
09/18/2018 07:39 AMPosted by MySelf
09/18/2018 07:16 AMPosted by happyscrub
Rank is incentive to get better

Not everyones plays rank and it doesnt fix the issue .

Here is a simple exemple of what i meant . if we take tassadar's force wall . its always a wall of 3 blocks ( force field) that are perpendicular to his line of sign/ casting point. If we were to make it a 3 charge skill but each of them would set 1 block at a time it would change a whole lot how a player can us it. A skillful player wouls be able to wall still but will not be limited to the dirrection of the wall. This way a skilled played would have more option and a average or low skilled player might fail at the placement at first but with practice and improvement they will be able to do the same as other better player.


Rank does give an incentive...what you suggested doesn't really do anything.

If you have A class players in a MMR they belong and you changed tass, it's not going to really separate the pack because they already in similar skill range.

The exact same thing will happen with D class players. The only thing your suggestion will do is make tass less of a pick in lower ranks and MAYBE a change in higher rank. But its not gonna make a D class player a C class player. They D because they are a D.

Changing a hero isn't going to make people better. Practice and experience does that.
Talent diversity would increase difficulty yet nowadays it seems the devs are rounding things up and leaving players with 1 or 2 option builds.
I don't think it needs to be brought up now.
I will get downvoted for this but i'll say it anyway: i am really happy that some QM only derp talents/ builds got looked at :
Old E azmongoloid solo lane , Old E spam tyrande , anti AA Murky of doom , level16 Unstoppable CG (even though i think they should have gotten the talent some oomph somewhere else).
09/18/2018 08:04 AMPosted by ChefNasty
Map design can be more complex, but if you make more complex heroes you run into problems balancing them with easier heroes. Should a very complex hero be much more powerful than an easy hero at high level play? If only a little more powerful then what's the point for someone to master it (excluding esports)?

The game has already established easy and hard heroes. If they want to up the complexity, they'll have to rework the easier heroes similar to Lol reworking older Champs like Katarina.


Easy and very hard beroes should both be powerful in their own right but i see easy heroes more as one trick poneys , they do one thing but they do it really well while very hard heroes are able to cover more ground by offering different tools.
09/18/2018 06:20 AMPosted by FrostFawks
09/18/2018 06:06 AMPosted by Paradox
Step 1 would be to stop balancing the game around QM.


Is the game truly balanced around QM?

Last I heard, HotS was balanced around HL, which is where they pull the majority of their stats.


It's actually balanced around QM, HL, and HGC.

Take Tassadar, he is White hot garbage in QM and HP, because if he's even decent in those 2 modes he becomes a monster in pro play.

Take Nova, last year she was reworked to be playable in the pro scene, she was then a destructive menace in QM, so they gutted her again.

Take Cho'Gall, not even picked in HL but at least playable when he is, is a QM and TL monster, and is a niche/meme pick in the HGC.

The devs keep balancing for all 3 environments, as knee jerk responses to what's happening in that mode, rather then picking one mode and balance for that mode only. The mode picked to balance for should never be that 0.01% of the population known as the HGC, honestly they should pick QM, UR, or HL and balance for that mode only unless something is so far out of wack in another mode that it needs adjustments.
09/18/2018 07:39 AMPosted by MySelf
09/18/2018 07:16 AMPosted by happyscrub
Rank is incentive to get better

Not everyones plays rank and it doesnt fix the issue .

Here is a simple exemple of what i meant . if we take tassadar's force wall . its always a wall of 3 blocks ( force field) that are perpendicular to his line of sign/ casting point. If we were to make it a 3 charge skill but each of them would set 1 block at a time it would change a whole lot how a player can us it. A skillful player wouls be able to wall still but will not be limited to the dirrection of the wall. This way a skilled played would have more option and a average or low skilled player might fail at the placement at first but with practice and improvement they will be able to do the same as other better player.

Seing player managing to do something that they cant can be that one thing to push certain player improve , toxic players are most likely going to drop the character all together and pick something easier for them. Would it be hell for us at first ? Probably but it might be a way to increase the skills of the average players .


Worst
Idea
Ever
It doesn't really matter. As long as you have skill shots and movement mechanics there is always room for improvement. No one is 100 % accurate and you could always be just a little faster. Add some strategy behind it and you have all you need for a competitive game.
Example are fps games. Many have very little complexity but the skill difference is very pronounced even though it is in the smallest details. In duel fps games it is common that people win with flawless scores, dominating opponent even though they are both one of the best in the world.
You have many examples from sport. Tennis looks quite simple at a first glance doesn't it? Ever played tennis? Ever played against pro? :)
The problem is that when something or someone is oppressive, people complains instead of getting better and counter it, this wasnt the case until all the garrosh unfun thing, that opened this babysitting for people that don't want a challenge, just someone that kicks all the bowling pins when they throw the ball so they can start jumping in happyness instead of making them get better, well, at least in some cases

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