Mephisto's Great Design Flaw

General Discussion
According to hotslogs:
Consume Souls - 95.5% popularity rate and 54.6% win rate
Durance of Hate - 4.5% popularity rate and 41.5% win rate

Durance of Hate can be strong, since it synergizes well with mephisto's other abilities. When combined, it can be devastating, but it requires skill and it does negligible damage by itself.
So why use it over Consume Souls, which requires no skill at all, does high (almost) guaranteed damage to every single enemy AND has a strong slow AND reveals!?

What kind of mushroom were Blizzard developers high on, to think this would be balanced?

Even considering that Consume Souls is balanced, there is a major flaw here.
Consume Souls is not fun. It empoverished the game. It made the game less dependent on skill. It is frustrating to play against and it masks the fact the Mephisto is a pretty weak hero when he doesn't have such an overpowered ultimate.
Well i dont know about these, but im sure as hell i pay the 15k to see i got the skill what it takes to press R and pentakill
Latest patch (should be live already): decreased slow on CS, higher dmg on DoH plus lower cd and it's also easier to hit. So these statistics will change I think.
Here we can witness somebody bringing up the "it's frustrating to play against" argument.
As Karabars said, next patch (you can play it on PTR and it will be live soon) buffs Durance of Hate and nerfs Consume Souls slow.

Also Consume Souls is not OP. Other MOBAs have ults like this and it's fine.
And just 10k now...
The changes are not enough. The whole need to stand still and channel Consume Souls is irrelevant as the heroic has no range. Yet it's what was meant to balance it from the looks of it. It at least shouldn't benefit from spellpower buffs from talents.
So why use it over Consume Souls, which requires no skill at all, does high (almost) guaranteed damage to every single enemy AND has a strong slow AND reveals!?
So reversed Shadowstalk and yet nobody complains about it being "low skill" ability. Weird.
And we are talking here about hero that performs much better than Meph. Weird2.
09/19/2018 07:52 AMPosted by MortalWombat
So why use it over Consume Souls, which requires no skill at all, does high (almost) guaranteed damage to every single enemy AND has a strong slow AND reveals!?
So reversed Shadowstalk and yet nobody complains about it being "low skill" ability. Weird.
And we are talking here about hero that performs much better than Meph. Weird2.


There is an important difference: Shadowstalk allows counterplay.

My main argument remains. Consume Souls is not a game breaking skill, but even if it is balanced, it is not fun, it requires no skill and it allows very little counterplay. It is much like a game of dice that you know you can cheat every few rounds and roll all 6.

At the time I wrote the original post, I didn't know about Mephisto's changes. Hopefully it will make things better.
Personally I just love the cast animation for Consume Souls, and will continue to pick it when it gets nerfed as such.
Again, the only issue with Consume Souls is the slow. I'm sad to see that instead of removing the slow altogether, they are just reducing it. Baby steps, I guess.
09/19/2018 04:18 AMPosted by Huginn
Even considering that Consume Souls is balanced, there is a major flaw here.
Consume Souls is not fun. It empoverished the game. It made the game less dependent on skill. It is frustrating to play against and it masks the fact the Mephisto is a pretty weak hero when he doesn't have such an overpowered ultimate.


Yea its a step into the wrong direction imo. But we will see how viable it is in high lvl at this weekend cos Mephisto will be in HGC. I kinda doubt it will be overused but its hard to make assumptions cos the effect can be avoided by half of the hero pool considering some can avoid it for allies too.
What I want for durance of hate is to be able to cast it after using shade of mephisto. Atm due to the cast time you are teleported back before you can cast your ult. I want to be able to port in shoot my ult from the forward position and then port back out.
09/19/2018 04:36 AMPosted by LivingHate
As Karabars said, next patch (you can play it on PTR and it will be live soon) buffs Durance of Hate and nerfs Consume Souls slow.

Also Consume Souls is not OP. Other MOBAs have ults like this and it's fine.


This.

Karthus has had functionally the exact same ult for nearly a decade.

You could get rid of the slow and reveal and it wouldn't affect CS in any meaningful way. Realistically, if you did these and maybe made it so that interrupting CS made it go onto the full cooldown, there would be nothing to complain about. It's a balanced ult that punishes you if you already lose a team fight.

My main argument remains. Consume Souls is not a game breaking skill, but even if it is balanced, it is not fun, it requires no skill and it allows very little counterplay. It is much like a game of dice that you know you can cheat every few rounds and roll all 6.


"It's not fun to play against" is such an incredibly weak argument that has ruined so many different design possibilities for years.
I just played him yesterday, 9 games lvl 6 now. I cant tell why he is OP besidea the shield (nerfed now but still), and Consume Souls.

Heck i just yoloed into 4 3/4 health enemy team, E W Q Consume Souls and they got wiped. Did this multiple times, only lost when got literally Mephisto counter team.
Constantly doing 2x hero dmg than everyone else.

In 9 games maybe lost 2 because the mentioned comp.
QM ofc, since Mephisto rarely not banned in UD, or HL...
09/19/2018 04:36 AMPosted by LivingHate
As Karabars said, next patch (you can play it on PTR and it will be live soon) buffs Durance of Hate and nerfs Consume Souls slow.

Also Consume Souls is not OP. Other MOBAs have ults like this and it's fine.


This.

Karthus has had functionally the exact same ult for nearly a decade.

You could get rid of the slow and reveal and it wouldn't affect CS in any meaningful way. Realistically, if you did these and maybe made it so that interrupting CS made it go onto the full cooldown, there would be nothing to complain about. It's a balanced ult that punishes you if you already lose a team fight.

My main argument remains. Consume Souls is not a game breaking skill, but even if it is balanced, it is not fun, it requires no skill and it allows very little counterplay. It is much like a game of dice that you know you can cheat every few rounds and roll all 6.


"It's not fun to play against" is such an incredibly weak argument that has ruined so many different design possibilities for years.

Karthus and Meph are joke compared to what Zeus can do in Dota... His ult is instant (no cast time), can be buffed by increase Inteligence (and proper spell power items), and can be cast a second time with Refresher. Still, it is balanced there as mucb as it is balanced here.
People complain are all from QM where you can get a no sup team, in any draft mode Meph is fine.
...

This.

Karthus has had functionally the exact same ult for nearly a decade.

You could get rid of the slow and reveal and it wouldn't affect CS in any meaningful way. Realistically, if you did these and maybe made it so that interrupting CS made it go onto the full cooldown, there would be nothing to complain about. It's a balanced ult that punishes you if you already lose a team fight.

...

"It's not fun to play against" is such an incredibly weak argument that has ruined so many different design possibilities for years.

Karthus and Meph are joke compared to what Zeus can do in Dota... His ult is instant (no cast time), can be buffed by increase Inteligence (and proper spell power items), and can be cast a second time with Refresher. Still, it is balanced there as mucb as it is balanced here.
People complain are all from QM where you can get a no sup team, in any draft mode Meph is fine.

Comparing Zeus ult and Memph is a joke. In Dota2 you have items to protect you from Zeus ult, one Pipe and Zeus ult is dead. To get Refresher and "proper spell power items" you need to farm and not get ganked and killed, cause if you fall behind with Zeus, you do as much as support.
mephisto in a nutshell

Step 1: hit level 10
Step 2: Press a button and watch the other team die
step 3: victory

Summary: Your Devs are trash Blizzard.

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