Mephisto - A Game Changing Ult Should Not Be Global

General Discussion
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If at least 1 hero dies to that stupid ultimate, your teams is literally done for.

A game changing ultimate that not only takes one huge chunk of your HP , but can take 2 chunks of your HP. Slows AND Reveals.

So if you didn't die to the ult, you die to the slow.

I'm freaking done that literally every late game is like "If Mephisto gets his doublecast this game is over." feeling. No matter how well you play. You are literally punished if someone else dies, no matter where you are in the map.

How is this the idea of fun?
Sanctification blocks the damage completely. If you can get your team to sit inside the circle, which is a big if.
It's not fun. There's no skill. There's basically no counterplay.

Abilities should have proper ranges. Blizzard needs to get rid of their obsession with "global" !@#$.

Slapping global range on abilities "just because it sounds cool" is a bad, uninteractive mechanic.

Where is the counterplay?

Kill him? I can't he's across the map.

Stun him? I can't he's across the map.

Dodge it? I can't he's across the map.

What's next are we going to make Swift Strike global? Are we going to make Pyroblast global? Are we going to make Dragon Breath global?

Global abilities like this are the very definition of uninteractive.

We didn't like Chromie killing us from across the screen, why the %^-* did you think would we be okay with Mephisto killing entire teams from across the map!

Consume souls has over 96% pickrate and 55% winrate across all leagues. Nerf it.
I think the reset shoud not be infinite. 1 reset is enough
09/22/2018 12:09 PMPosted by RN24
I think the reset shoud not be infinite. 1 reset is enough

it doesn't infinite reset it just double cast if 1st one kills, but it does do 10% bonus damage for missing HP so the 2nd one end up hitting for more damage
People often compare it to Zeus or Karthus ult in LOL.
The difference in LOL/DOTA2 you have the opportunity to counterplay by building items against it? Here you're literally doomed if your hero doesn't have some sort of spell armor mechanic, and even still. The reset + slow + global + reveal is too damn strong.

Why does it have to reveal?
Why does it have to slow?

Karthus and Zeus ult in Dota2/LOL is just damage and/or a short reveal. Not this wombo combo + a chance to result if any person of your team dies. And it doesn't end there, the slow is so disgusting that even if all of that doesn't kill you, they'll probably team wipe you due to the slow.
This ult could be global, but with a target, instead of the whole team, so the mehpisto would had to have vision of the boy which he wants to kill (either the slow / damage could be reduced, but with only one target, it would be way more fine)(and on 20, the ult could get a -50% cdr if the R kills the enemy, or an effect kind similar to the illidan's one (that reveal the enemy if he has "% amount less life" after he casts it))
Sooooo your saying that the reason you "Can't" counter him is cause "he's across the map"... so basically he's leaving his allies 4v5, and just waiting until they manage to get your whole team low HP enough for him to pop off the double cast, he does insane damage on a mediocre player, if he's far away, their losing a HUGE chunk of their team's potential damage, so if your 5 teammates can't deal with his 4 allies then you might have some other problems then just his Ult; And if he IS with his team, at lvl 20, killing him will spare you 60 seconds of having to deal with the ult in general, so really, consider him like a Higher Priority Hammer or Kaelthas, just like how you under usual circumstances eliminate the healer first-ish to make the fight easier to win, Mephisto should have similar "high priority target" sticker on his back... he literally doesn't have an escape, it's a feign, like a reverse Chromie Time Stop. or if he's "Across the map" he's probably alone, so go gank his butt, then it's a normal 4v5.

All this info aside, I still expect most people to ignore the potential to deal with him, as most people on the forums that come to complain do not learn or adapt, but good luck if your trying.

Edit: also hope they keep it: Mephisto, as the lord of Hatred is living up to his title by making a fair few players hating on him to no end, still mildly humorous.
For those of you who seem to be obsessed with defending the ultimate no matter what, let me tell you guys a story.

I was playing KT on Cursed Hollow. Against a Mephisto, Mana Addict is pretty much a must-pick even without Consume Souls, so I'd picked it and completed it.

My team was on the right side of the map. I'd just escaped from a teamfight over a tribute at the bottom-right spawn point. My team was winning the fight overall, with one of the enemy team dead and Mephisto retreating with low health.

I managed to escape behind my team's Keep Towers and Gate in the bottom lane. I press B to hearth, and then Mephisto casts his ult from somewhere near the bot bruiser camp.

I'd already used Mana Addict to survive and escape the teamfight. I didn't have any supports near me because they were keeping our team alive at the tribute. KT doesn't have any way of getting spell armor, and even if he did, I'd have already burned it escaping from the teamfight.

I die, along with one of my teammates still at the tribute. The rest of my team is now below half-health and are heavily slowed. The remainder of the enemy team proceeds to roll in and wipe the rest of my teammates at the tribute.

This is not the only time this kind of scenario has happened to me. This is not the worst version of this scenario that has happened to me. It just happens to be one of the most common.

This is why Consume Souls is so powerful. Mephisto never stops being a threat to you after picking Consume Souls unless he's dead. He doesn't need to be on the same side of the map as you, he doesn't need to have vision of you, and he doesn't need to aim at you. All he has to do is press a button and anyone who doesn't conveniently have a protect/stasis effect off cooldown or a handy spell shield that hasn't been used yet gets 1/4 to 1/3 of their health chunked off in one hit. Anyone in a teamfight is severely slowed and very likely dies anyway even if they did avoid the damage.

And this power shows in Mephisto's stats. His winrate is consistently 3-5% above average across all levels of play, and Consume Souls alone has a 95%+ pickrate and is pushing a 56% winrate.

You can keep denying it all you want, but Consume Souls is objectively overpowered.
@just kill him: It`s not like he has 2k baseHP and can buy 2.5s for his team to help him with his shade. Unless he heavily messes up, just kill him wont work.

@needs to move out of teamfight: If you ever played junkrat, you know you don`t need to move far to channel for a few seconds

That aside, look at all other global abilities: Diablo delayed, Nova delayed, Artanis dmg over time, Lavawave very limited threatarea. These are fine, they need setup. Channel only into instant dmg is just uninteractive.
Even if its a balanced heroic, it`s a stupid heroic. No skill + huge dmg/impact = bad idea.
Why does it have to reveal?
Why does it have to slow?


I think they answered those in the ama.

iirc correctly the reveal was so you could see what happened to your damage and/or if it got countered.

The slow was to have something to tweak besides just damage, apparently it did even more damage once.

Which brings the new question: Why the heck does it need to do so much damage? It's already a global reveal + guaranteed damage on 5 targets + cc on an entire team. There is no reason why it should also be capable of dealing significant chunks of health.
09/22/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Vorleser
People often compare it to Zeus or Karthus ult in LOL.
The difference in LOL/DOTA2 you have the opportunity to counterplay by building items against it? Here you're literally doomed if your hero doesn't have some sort of spell armor mechanic, and even still. The reset + slow + global + reveal is too damn strong.


Totally agree, some heroes here should have the ability to reflect global damage to counter such gamebreaking heroes.
09/22/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Vorleser
People often compare it to Zeus or Karthus ult in LOL.
The difference in LOL/DOTA2 you have the opportunity to counterplay by building items against it? Here you're literally doomed if your hero doesn't have some sort of spell armor mechanic, and even still. The reset + slow + global + reveal is too damn strong.

Why does it have to reveal?
Why does it have to slow?

Karthus and Zeus ult in Dota2/LOL is just damage and/or a short reveal. Not this wombo combo + a chance to result if any person of your team dies. And it doesn't end there, the slow is so disgusting that even if all of that doesn't kill you, they'll probably team wipe you due to the slow.

Don't Forget Smite's Nu Wa!

Anyway, the inability to build items hurts this game sometimes, because there is nothing like Zonya's Hourglass, BKB, or Purification Beads. Those items may be extremely annoying and meta defining, but they at least help counter burst and CC chaining. Our talent system is fun, but the main advantage of it does not translate well into overloaded abilites, as the point of it is to give abilities an extra function.
To be honest, i think that it would have been better if they bring back the slow to 40%, but reduce its damage output massively based on the distance from mephisto (acros the map it might do only 50 damage, and outside chromie range only 400, at point blank it can still do the 700). This way you force him to be close to do his real damage output, and by that allow interupts to happen.

At medium range i dont see the damage as a problem, if he can use it like that, you got outplayed.
But acros the map is a bit excessive when late game he can output a half health bar of damage to half your team. Even the kaelthas pyroblast is not going to be that strong if it his all 5 (it can do the same damage to 1 target, but the splash is only half damage).

With that, also make it so mephisto is globaly revealed during his cast (allows counter globals to be used, which adds a risk when he used his teleport to boost the spell power).
Add some risks to using it.
09/22/2018 12:04 PMPosted by MetalDtector
Sanctification blocks the damage completely. If you can get your team to sit inside the circle, which is a big if.


Great, so we save sanct until everyone is nearly dead, then everybody stacks in one place. What does Tyrael do if Mephisto never uses Consume Souls?

Does nobody see the power of an ult that forces the enemy to hold onto 5 defensive cooldowns? In teamfights there will generally be 5-8 "dangerous" skills that need to be mitigated. Consume Souls increases that number to 10-13.

Pyroblast is the game's most avoidable ult. Single target, you can stun Kael, you can protect, spell shield, the list goes on. You can even use a simple dash skill to disjoint it. It still gets value in games.

A smart Kael will wait for those juicy cooldowns to be spent (you have 4 allies to help with that), then send the ball. If they never spend those cooldowns, your allies will thank you for making their job a lot easier.
his ult is simply a global Malthael last rites ult. it has the same counterplay in which you must prevent the person who is gonna die from dying. heal the target or have someone put a shield on them. there are several characters who can counter these type of ults.
Fun with numbers:

Mephistos ultimate deals 783 dmg @lvl20
5*783= 3915 dmg for the entire enemy team.

Mephisto has a talent on level 13 that gives him 20% spellpower for 6 seconds.
783*1,2= 940~ dmg
940*5 = 4700dmg for the entire enemy team.

Ana can additonally nanoboost him for 30% spellpower.
783*1,5=1175~ dmg
1175*5 = 5875 dmg for the entire enemy team

Mephisto gains a talent at level 20 that gives his ultimate additional dmg based on 10% of missing hp.
Arthas @lvl 20 has over 6k hp.
At 50% he's missing 3k, resulting in 300 additional Mephisto-dmg.
I dont know how that talent relates to spell-power, but if it doesnt get boosted by spellpower, a 50% hp Arthas being hit by a nano-boosted Mephisto-ult will get dropped by a whopping 1475 hp, aka 25% of his life, as a TANK.

Mephisto has the ability to literally zone the entire game by being an unavoidable insta-kill button.
If you meet him in Quick-Play or don't ban him in draft-mode, you'll be completely screwed by default, unless you really build your entire game around countering Mephisto.

Obtw. if he kills a target @lvl20 with his ultimate, it gets casted twice and your Arthas who was initially dropped from 50% to 25% is now dead, because Mephisto pressed R.

Edit: I forgot the 20% spell-power buff of his level 1 talent.
Just make his nova mark targets for 10 secs and allow heroic to hit them while marked.
Blizzard will provide the necessary nerf, after sales have reached the required quota.

I honestly don't care for the hero, but not so much his ult, but more-so because he doesn't remind me of the diablo 2 meph at all. I don't recall playing d2, and thinking

"uh oh, I entered floor 3, now meph is going to hit me and the entire team off screen with his ult."

I would have preferred him to have an aoe poison.
Its overtuned really. It either needs its utility removed (Slow and vision), or its damage altered (such that it only deals full damage to enemies below a certain HP % threshold)

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