Mephisto - A Game Changing Ult Should Not Be Global

General Discussion
I don't think I ever got killed by this ultimate. Maybe once or twice and it was probably my fault.

But you all defending this seem to forget one fact: You're not !@#$ing playinv 5v1 against one Mephisto. You can be sure, with a little bit of luck, that enemy team will be throwing other skills you want to avoid at you. And you can judge for yourself if you prefer to use your escape in the TF to win it, or after the TF to... wait you're probably already dead, dummy.

My biggest problem with this ulti would be that while it takes almost no skill (yeah, it doesn't, you just have to get the timing right which isn't that hard if you have half a brain) while it punishes risky good plays. How many times did you have this play that made your heart rush, where you did something incredible and went away with just a little bit of health? Well, guess what, he pressed R.

Like I said before, I don't think it's that much of a deal, as I just never saw Mephisto as a big losing/ winning factor in my games. All I saw was my teammates getting killed when they randomly died after a good play, from the other side of the map. I don't think it requires much nerfing but I wouldn't like them to keep making the game easier for new heros.

What are we gonna get next? Hero with only passive and point-and-click spells? Or maybe auto-use spells? So that players don't have to think when to use it.
<sarcasm> Yeah, auto healing support would be good, just stay in the tf walking around and the game will play itself! </sarcasm>

Edit: Rather than changing this one, I'd like them to improve the second ultimate, so that it's ever picked. Maybe make it something hard to use but if used properly, rewarding better than CS? I guess people would whine too, though.
Well i think they must change his ult to HEAL enemy heroes and reveal his allies. With these changes you ll going to love him....

L2P
09/23/2018 01:54 AMPosted by CCORD
My biggest problem with this ulti would be that while it takes almost no skill


No it TAKES ZERO skill. There is no skill whatsoever so "almost" isn't in the picture.

The counter play to a lot of team fights and what not is to retreat at low health. Mephistos ult says no to that counter play. Playing safe, get closer to healer.. get away, hearth, tap a fountain, none of it matters now.

Adding insult to injury is any personals you have.. (shield, immunity, ult whatever... ) since he can do his ult twice.
Global damage is fine IMO. What isn't fine is global utility attached to said global damage. People often bring Zeus from DOTA and Karthus from League as arguments that global damaging ultimates can work. Except those two are just that: single-shot damaging ultimates.

I'm okay with Mephisto's heroic killing me from low HP. What I'm not okay is it revealing and slowing me for 2.5-5 seconds so that even if it doesn't kill me Mephisto's teammates chasing my tail will.

I suggest removing the slow/reveal aspect and increasing damage (so it acts like a finisher instead of something you can pop anytime during the fight to a great effect).
Then, remove the recast at level 20 - it's the definition of "win-more". Did I kill someone? Then I get to nuke the entire enemy team and slow them for 5 seconds. Did I fail to kill someone? Then I have no level 20 talent.
Instead, slow+reveal should be moved from baseline here; if Mephisto wants global utility then he should pay an appropriate price of a level 20 talent to do so.
Well Roll20Esports couldnt do nothing with Mephisto against Dignitas...

So there is a counter, just need to adjust to it instead of crying.

Still i can see that the majority cant counter him (75% wr with him /none ranked/), but when i played against him we still won more than Mep did against our team.

Focus his shade (where he gets back). He is so easy to get there....
Back off when he casts W (dont lower his CDs for free).
Accept the fact that u cant afford to be on THAT low HP (his ult cant get value out of it).

While i stand by what i wrote before i still believe they gonna nerf the dmg of it. (I think they should get rid of the additional 10% dmg/missing health as well.)

Without the ult, Mephisto is pretty weak, so this ult makes Mephisto Mephisto. (Unique)
As an abathur player i hate it cause 1 double cast instantly kills you. You have to wait in the base from lvl 20 onwards cause if you leave and mephisto uses his ult, you die
what if it didn't damage enemies that were already revealed, and didn't slow enemies that were not already revealed?
Any ability which has NO RISK /// NO EFFORT /NO ANYTHING beyond just pressing a button.... to kill heroes should not be in this game.

Thats what Mephisto's ult is right now.
Mephistos ultimate issue is the result of 2 things

1. It's overtuned, as it applies a slow, reveals and does massive damage to the entire enemy team, basically being unavoidable unless you have specific high value ultimates on your team
2. At level 20 it gets the ability to cast again on kill.

I honestly feel it's a bit to strong at the moment, and the best course of action is remove the cast again upon kill, because from my knowledge, these abilities in other moba's are mostly used to secure kills. Instead make the slow or high damage the 20, so the current baseline is the 20. After all it's free damage on the entire enemy team, or a game changing ultimate to counter it, which is really strong.
09/22/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Vorleser
People often compare it to Zeus or Karthus ult in LOL.
The difference in LOL/DOTA2 you have the opportunity to counterplay by building items against it? Here you're literally doomed if your hero doesn't have some sort of spell armor mechanic, and even still. The reset + slow + global + reveal is too damn strong.

Why does it have to reveal?
Why does it have to slow?

Karthus and Zeus ult in Dota2/LOL is just damage and/or a short reveal. Not this wombo combo + a chance to result if any person of your team dies. And it doesn't end there, the slow is so disgusting that even if all of that doesn't kill you, they'll probably team wipe you due to the slow.
One of the reasons I liked HotS over LoL is because of bull!@#$ like that global ult didn't exist in HotS. It's sad to see my reasons to play this game slowly diminish with changes like these. These kind of mechanics just aren't fun or interesting in the slightest.
The ability is just stupid and should not exist. I have no idea how you can even think of something like that as a designer if you know that games are decided in 1 or 2 late game teamfights and the most prominent mode called QM is often without a support. But hey they build Genji and already showed that they have zero clue about balance.

Next thing is a balance AMA where everyone will be so surprised that the balance is not good but nothing will change. Stupid ideas of tunnel vision designers get into live.
09/22/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Vorleser
If at least 1 hero dies to that stupid ultimate, your teams is literally done for.

A game changing ultimate that not only takes one huge chunk of your HP , but can take 2 chunks of your HP. Slows AND Reveals.

So if you didn't die to the ult, you die to the slow.

I'm freaking done that literally every late game is like "If Mephisto gets his doublecast this game is over." feeling. No matter how well you play. You are literally punished if someone else dies, no matter where you are in the map.

How is this the idea of fun?


I've not been experiencing that against mephisto. Please use him in three ranked games and link the replays so that i can understand.
How about counter play with awareness? There are several counters beyond that though. Like didn't we just get shadowstalk for tyrande? A global heal.. or brightwing rework for instance.
Global ults are gamechanging by definition.

  • If he uses it as a reveal he loses a lot of damage potential (unless you guys were fighting a boss without a tank and a healer which means shame on you).
  • If he uses it as a finisher he loses the reveal potential (unless the low hp guy was being chased but that means tyou already lost the teamfight).


I really don't see an issue considering that his basic kit is eaisly counterable and requires he to be in range of multiple enemies in order to deal damage.
09/22/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Vorleser
If at least 1 hero dies to that stupid ultimate, your teams is literally done for.

A game changing ultimate that not only takes one huge chunk of your HP , but can take 2 chunks of your HP. Slows AND Reveals.

So if you didn't die to the ult, you die to the slow.

I'm freaking done that literally every late game is like "If Mephisto gets his doublecast this game is over." feeling. No matter how well you play. You are literally punished if someone else dies, no matter where you are in the map.

How is this the idea of fun?


If you are in late game against him that means you were losing game already. Don't blame a hero on your incompetence.
I don't know why anyone would find such a hero fun. Play an evenly matched game (lets pretend its evenly matched, we all know however those things are like a blue unicorn in this game). So anyway its towards late game and I'm playing Mephisto. I'm tired.. I just want it to end... besides something bout to come on TV...

So I kinda just step out of the hearth area.... don't even bother to look or anything.. press one button.. Yawwwwwwwn instantly execute some low health heroes on the other side. The rest scramble to defend their core but without a tank or their dps they are near defenseless.

GG.. My team takes the core. I WIN.

Time to get some tv on...

Doesn't sound like a match I'd ever enjoy winning.

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