Uther - a worse Tyrande?

General Discussion
09/20/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Minky
I know that part of playing Uther correctly is learning how to manage is mana correctly. But be honest, the costs are just a wee bit too high.


Yeah. I'd agree with this if other healers really felt as hard to control their mana as Uther. You'd think, based on Whitemane's kit, that she'd be in the same boat...but then her level 4 makes her mana ez mode. None of the other heroes in the game that I can think of suffer from mana issues so badly except for Thrall if he picks the block at level 4 or Valla if she picks the Caltrops build.
garbage hero
i think he should gain mana when he's attacked. would be a good secondary effect for his after-death-only trait imo. i think wow pally was the same at one point? this would also synergize with the fact that he's tanky
09/20/2018 07:39 PMPosted by Marmara
After Tyrande was reworked is Uther now completely obsolete?

Everything he can do, Tyrande can do it better. Uther has cleanse? Tyrande has a level 1 baseline cleanse. Uther has stun? Tyrande has a longer range stun. In addition to that Tyrande is ranged, deals more damage, heals significantly more, and has less mana problems.

Only things Uther can do better are baseline armor as opposed to her level 1 spell armor (which is just as good against spell damage), invulnerability, and higher survivability.

I'm agree but Uther have some things what Tyrand can't . Uther have bubble or area stun and he can be a brusier (Q build). Also Uther never been the main healer, actually Malfuruian too. Eazy be countered by sustain dmg especially area-sustain such as Nazeebo or Gul'dan do, for example, high mana cost and CD of abilities. With Malfurion it burst and focus.
Although I agree that he may need a tweak on his kit... I have the feeling people here are underestimating Uther wayyy too much ;)
Uther is a little stronger vs divers like genji, tracer and illidan due to the point and click stun vs tyrandes aimed skillshot. Also he is a little better at supporting divers like genji, gm and butcher due to cleanse (1sec) and divine shield. Else than that Tyrande seems superior.
I agree but i don't think you know what baseline means.
with both bw and tyrande getting access to pretty handy cleanses it seems (to me) that this is a new direction the team is moving for as in supports should get a cleanse.
with this in mind i think we can predict that more support presumably those who are in need of a buff or rework will get a cleanse.
anyway this is just a theory.
At the very least, he needs to have some mana shaved off on his spells.
Running out of mana after 2 rotations just feels horrible.

I've had decent success with him being a 2nd healer, but I cant remember the last time I won as a solo heal uther.
Uther pick was questionable after Malf rework, even more after Whitemane arrival, but with Tyrande rework there is 0 reason to pick Uther, as a healer. He is basically a stunbot now and maybe ToD pick.

While in 2017 forum complained about Lucio, it was actually Uther who had higher popularity (due to bans mostly) and higher winrates. And thats all with less regen globes and later objectives (mana).

All hail power-creep.
I remember when uther was able to use all abilities when he dies during ghost form. This was fun.
Honestly, I love the hero, but he is falling behind by quite a bit (I'd call him a niche pick at best).

I'd apply the following changes to him:

- Reduce Mana Costs of His Q and W by 10 MP:
Being a DotA veteran myself, I kinda even like his high mana costs, but what's too much is too much, so a little trim like this could be a nice start.
In response to this change, Holy Shock should now refund 40 instead of 45 MP (Silver Touch should still reduce Q's mana cost by 40 MP once its quest is completed and Wave of Light would remain same).

- Buff and Adjust His Basic Attacks:
Atm, Uther's big hammer deals the noodle wetting 164.5 DPS (iirc, that's ~30 more DPS than Cain's basic attacks).
For him to be a proper frontliner, I suggest that his DPS goes up to 200 DPS (still nothing that will send his enemies flying, but will at least be felt), but do it by increasing his damage from 164.5 to 267 AND reducing his basic attack speed from 1 to 0.75.
Now, why not simply increase his basic attack damage and be over with it?
The reason is simple; slower attack speed and higher basic attack damage will actually improve the fantasy of being a paladin who smashes his enemies with his huge hammer by a lot!
However, the following talents will need tweaking as response to this adjustment:
  • Hammer of the Lightbringer's CDR and mana cost restoration should get buffed from 1.5 to 2 sec CDR and 1.5 to 2% of max mana returned per basic attack, while now it will take 60 instead of 75 basic attacks to complete the quest.
  • Hand of Protection's CDR should get buffed from 1 to 1.5 sec.
  • Blessed Champion's duration would get increased from 5 to 6 sec, while now each strike would heal 20 instead 15% of Q's total heal (this one would end up being a slight buff, while the rest are pure adjustments).


- Rework Spell Shield:
Purely for getting rid of dem generics.
But the rework is simple; Witch Hunter, each time Uther gets armor buff from Devotion, will also get 30 spell armor for 3 seconds which does not stack with itself.

- Wave of Light and Divine Protection Improvements:
Remember when I said WoL won't get any tweaks?
I lied!
But the suggestion is simple; simply change WoL's reward from increasing the armor duration to it increasing W's width and length by 30%, while Divine Protection would get additional functionality where it increases duration of Devotion armor buff by 2 sec.
This change makes all the sense in the world since WoL is too good by design (that's why it got all those nerfs) because it gives Uther both good sustain and anti-burst.
Now all the level 1 talents have their niche, with WoL's being improved sustain.
Though I do think WoL might need some slight buffs after this change (I'd just have it restore more mana per hero healed/damaged, that's it), at least its design is on the right path.
As for Divine Protection, now it can actually at least think as serving as competition to Redemption!

- Guardian of Ancient Kings:
Make it retroactive, so an ally who get's CC'd while having Devotion buff on them will have that buff get the benefit of the GoAK.
That and buff its armor boost from 50 to 60 armor.

Anyway!
here are some other tweaks I'm thinking Uther could get, but these are main ones, and I strongly believe they would do a world of good for him.
09/21/2018 10:24 AMPosted by Lithary
Honestly, I love the hero, but he is falling behind by quite a bit (I'd call him a niche pick at best).

I'd apply the following changes to him:

- Reduce Mana Costs of His Q and W by 10 MP:
Being a DotA veteran myself, I kinda even like his high mana costs, but what's too much is too much, so a little trim like this could be a nice start.
In response to this change, Holy Shock should now refund 40 instead of 45 MP (Silver Touch and Wave of Light would remain same).

- Buff and Adjust His Basic Attacks:
Atm, Uther's big hammer deals the noodle wetting 164.5 DPS (iirc, that's ~30 more DPS than Cain's basic attacks).
For him to be a proper frontliner, I suggest that his DPS goes up to 200 DPS (still nothing that will send his enemies flying, but will at least be felt), but do it by increasing his damage from 164.5 to 267 AND reducing his basic attack speed from 1 to 0.75.
Now, why not simply increase his basic attack damage and be over with it?
The reason is simple; slower attack speed and higher basic attack damage will actually improve the fantasy of being a paladin who smashes his enemies with his huge hammer by a lot!
However, the following talents will need tweaking as response to this adjustment:
  • Hammer of the Lightbringer's CDR and mana cost restoration should get buffed from 1.5 to 2 sec CDR and 1.5 to 2% of max mana returned per basic attack, while now it will take 60 instead of 75 basic attacks to complete the quest.
  • Hand of Protection's CDR should get buffed from 1 to 1.5 sec.
  • Blessed Champion's duration would get increased from 5 to 6 sec, while now each strike would heal 20 instead 15% of Q's total heal (this one would end up being a slight buff, while the rest are pure adjustments).


- Rework Spell Shield:
Purely for getting rid of dem generics.
But the rework is simple; Witch Hunter, each time Uther gets armor buff from Devotion, will also get 30 spell armor for 3 seconds which does not stack with itself.

- Wave of Light and Divine Protection Improvements:
Remember when I said WoL won't get any tweaks?
I lied!
But the suggestion is simple; simply change WoL's reward from increasing the armor duration to it increasing W's width and length by 30%, while Divine Protection would get additional functionality where it increases duration of Devotion armor buff by 2 sec.
This change makes all the sense in the world since WoL is too good by design (that's why it got all those nerfs) because it gives Uther both good sustain and anti-burst.
Now all the level 1 talents have their niche, with WoL's being improved sustain.
Though I do think WoL might need some slight buffs after this change, at least its design is on the right path.
As for Divine Protection, now it can actually at least think as serving as competition to Redemption!

- Guardian of Ancient Kings:
Make it retroactive, so an ally who get's CC'd while having Devotion buff on them will have that buff get the benefit of the GoAK.
That and buff its armor boost from 50 to 60 armor.

Anyway!
here are some other tweaks I'm thinking Uther could get, but these are main ones, and I strongly believe they would do a world of good for him.

Sir, I like your ideas and I'd like to subscribe to your bulletin.
09/20/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Waffulz
Uther is very boring to play, and he is super niche. Kinda sucks, his W build "pre-rework" was really fun, along with piano uther. He's pretty meh now.


Uther is my most played and I miss the piano build too. So fun having 4 more spells.
09/20/2018 08:59 PMPosted by Reinhardt
They just need to do something about his 90 mana Q


100% agree

Reduce the mana cost or keep it that high but have it do more.

Also, a cooldown reduction from 12 seconds to 10 wouldn't be terrible.
09/21/2018 03:40 AMPosted by Sleeser
with both bw and tyrande getting access to pretty handy cleanses it seems (to me) that this is a new direction the team is moving for as in supports should get a cleanse.
with this in mind i think we can predict that more support presumably those who are in need of a buff or rework will get a cleanse.
anyway this is just a theory.


I think they're trying to replace the old stock Cleanse talent with more fitting pseudocleanse abilities.

Note that none of these remove every type of CC, which means every support will still have issues against a team with a CC they can't counter. Tyrande, for example, removes stuns and silences, which means she can't do a thing against roots or slows. And these new cleanse talents don't grant the ally Unstoppable, so no more countering things like Temporal loop or Kel'thuzad's combo.
i like him in his immolation, armor beat-down build.
it's just a shame he's not competitive

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum