To Alpha & Beta players

General Discussion
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Everyone seems to be missing that back in alpha and beta, murky was an unstoppable monster. He had what quite a few had for a talent at early levels: Gathering power. For each hero kill, said hero would get a % increase to dmg dealt, up to 15%. If they died, they lost it.
Except for murky. Unless you killed him AND his egg before he respawned from it, he KEPT the 15% power. This was also before towers targeted the puffer, and it did full dmg to buildings. Murky could decimate a lane faster than a sylvanas left alone for too long.
I personally was 1v2 against an illidan and.... i think it was a valla, it's been a long time since this happened, and they couldn't kill me, or out push me in lane.
First wave Alpha here. The community was a lot more appreciative to get a F2P game early, the game had a slower response feel and the camera was still zoomed in. Wombo combos with ETC were very common. Illidan saw a LOT more play back then. Tychus was godlike in the right hands but he was more clunky then too.

OP Level 20 talents like Revive and Teleport for everyone, especially Warriors. Jaina and Tyrael were my mains for a long time back when Jaina still had a 40% slow talent.

I wouldn't really go back to it if I could. Everything has improved since then.
09/15/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Geisard
How was the game back then, and how do you compare to now?


Everything was unique and broken. Whether it's Nova being OP for years or being diverse about talent options leading to a deadly one-shotter, back then it was free for all, pick a hero, no counters, and fun.

Nowadays everything is polarized, balanced, dry, dull, and in some cases forced to abide with the changes even they aren't even in the majority's favorite. Pretty sure it's for the views (pro-league, HGC, etc.) rather than the community.

09/15/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Geisard
Anything in particular that you remember of that time and stuck in your memory?


When the game had its own meaning and not all about digits and counters.
My memory is foggy, but the following are things that I remember from Beta onwards to 2.0:

Muradin, for a while, was damn near impossible to kill. He was capable of going against 4-5 enemy combatants and win due to his endurance.

Game was slower paced; no hyper mobility, and things were less complicated.

Both Jaina, and especially Kael'thas, were monsters. For a while Kael'thas made specialists obsolete with how much damage he could do.

The Lost Vikings were viable along with split pushing. So much so that a team that had 1-2 specialists was most likely going to ruin the enemy team if they had an assassin, healer, and tank with them.

Nova and Zeratul were pains in the !@#.

Master Skins required you to actually play a character until level 15 before you could get them, so having them meant you had some knowledge about your preferred hero.

No bull$%^- gems. You could buy whatever you fancied without having to go through some asinine garbage to get what you want.

Legendary Skins were actually legendary and not simply upgraded skins or skins that have slightly shinier attachments.

The developers showed a lot more care for their game in that they made a lot of videos, often 2-3 per hero, and were more active in the community.

The A.I was dumb as a doorknob back then, though today it is still dumb as a doorknob.

Cannot remember much else other than Illidan being a terror when properly supported, but I am sure I missed quite a bit.

Looking back, I feel a bit sad and empty at where the game has gone. Oh we have had some fun with new heroes being introduced, but we have definitely gained a lot of bruises over the years.
I joined in the last two weeks of closed Beta or so.

Back then, the forums were mostly full of "Nova OP" and "Illidan OP" threads, every day.(which kinda was true IMO, but not as bad as some made it out to be).

I really liked playing Specialists back then. Almost all of them had a level 1 or 4 Talent that made them remove building ammo with AAs (oh yeah, buildings had ammo, and if it ran out they took a few seconds to reload and couldn't attack in that time).

Everyone kinda played around "wombo-combos" (I think, don't really know if "wombo" means something concrete :P). Because of that, I often got "scolded" for not picking Grav-O-Bomb on Gazzlowe, but I found that people greatly underestimated Robogoblin.

My most memorable moment from Beta was a game on the old Cursed Mines where our team got 100 skulls on the first Golem, and I out-pushed it on the other lane with Robo Gazzlowe and made it to the core first XD (the Golem also made it to the Core, and we won on the first objective... Siege could be really strong back then!).

My most played hero at the time wasn't a Spec, though. It was Raynor, and he was pretty good.
One time I started keeping track, and saw that my games were around 4 to 5 min shorter when I played Raynor than anyone else. We just stomped that fast.

All of this was in Vs AI, mind you, and the AI was terrible, so I probably wouldn't have been able to get away with it if I had played against other human beings.
09/15/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Geisard
How was the game back then, and how do you compare to now?


Everyone was the same skill level, you could join any team if you were friendly. As time went on skill levels changed dramatically, elitism kicked in, players formed elite teams of friends making the game boring. I have learned team elitism is far more uncomfortable than individual elitism. Team elitism makes you feel you don't belong at all.

09/15/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Geisard
Anything in particular that you remember of that time and stuck in your memory?


Combat Uther
Tychus double HP
Team Illidan (illidan + 2 supports lol)
Kael firebombs
You could buy heroes and skins with money instead of this scammy Gems and "shard only" skin nonsense

There's one thing I don't quite understand. Gems only skins can be adquired with money, or even sometimes you will win some gems.

But what's scammy about the shards? I mean, I played LoL for more time I have been playing HotS.

In HotS I 'own' most heroes and skins for most of them. And except for those Gems only exceptions, I have enough shards to buy any skin or hero I want. If I don't own them is just because I am not interested at all. I have NEVER spent actual money in HotS. I haven't even wasted any gold in re-rolling the loot boxes (and even if I had it wouldn't matter because gold is free).

In LoL, since the points you win by playing are not so much and you can only buy skins with money, even after like 4 years playing (And I have been playing HotS for like 1 year and a half) I own like 7 or 8 champions and 1 skin.

So it's funny when I read any complain about HotS policy regarding skins and money. Here you can 'buy' like 95% of everything just by playing and it's not even hard. Any person can get the full roster in a couple of years or less. Any person can get most skins in the same amount of time. Without spending a single €/$/whatever. No stimpacks. No buying loot boxes. Just by completing the daily quests and leveling heroes.

Now, maybe you weren't complaining at all. Sorry then, but I remember when some country forbidden the loot boxes and it was like "WTF".
i think half the ppl today would die with half the talents gated until u got to lvl 5? thats was the worst part of beta i remember. made most of the heroes crap till u got them till lvl 5.

the game speed was just slowly, none of this watch genji warp in take away 50% of your health warp out crap. the worst thing u had was zert or nova with GP that could go to 30%
09/15/2018 12:11 PMPosted by Geisard
I wonder if players were complaining of OP hero releases as they do today


They definitely were and in some cases the OP heroes back then were far worse than what we have now, release Li-Ming continues to be the standard of absolute broken... Then you had the Kael and Jaina meta, and since there was no bans back then I would actually say the complaints were more justified.
09/15/2018 12:11 PMPosted by Dave
Nova was capable of bursting down anyone exept for full HP dedicated tanks thanks to Rewind.

I think only noob players on tanks because 90% tanks on Beta have spell shield and hardened shield talents thats why they can tanking all her damage (after using it all she become useless for 10-12 sec Illidan also can survive vs Nova but need good reaction for using Meta + FA + Stoneskin combo on her after she try to snipe him). I think this all is more interesting then 90% time in game focusing on TF. Moba games is not only about team fights.
09/15/2018 12:36 PMPosted by Karabars
Also we had a lot of generic talents which were kinda boring. Imo the game is a much more balanced state atm. And we have a lot of Heroes now which we long missed from beta. Kits are kinda more interesting since beta. I love quest talents. And now you don't need to grind to be able to try out every talent with a lvl 1 Hero.

I like part of generic talents because they have outplay potential and it will be great for duels.
I liked alpha stitches...
I started playing during Closed Beta.

I still remember the talent where Diablo could have 150 Souls at level 13.
Alpha player here. Not everything was good back then.

-Murky duty. Pufferfish was only killed by 3 AAs, not damaged by anthing else. Either have one player dedicated to stop him or lose keep. Don't make me remember this, I want to forget.

-Battlemomentum Thrall...

-Stitches:
Gorge, sprint, bolt. Very fun to play against...
Also, his W build was insane. AoE stun at 16 and hit like a truck, he did assassin level damage back then.

-BW was broken af. Anyone remember her lvl7 talent that burst healed?

-Tychus 2.5 HP bars and Valla were the most sought after dps heroes, basically picked every game. On that note, no bans... Later KT was OP for months and being reworked to be another kind of OP for months...

-Aba's copy had ult.

-Resurgence of the Storm.... Completely broken generic talent for quite a few heroes.

-Old Lvl scaling was super snowbally. It used to be a flat value, which impacted way heavier in the early levels than later levels. It was changed to be a 4% scaling each level.

-Game is more responsive these days (some technical stuff in alpha).
09/15/2018 11:46 AMPosted by JonnyRitts
Alpha tester here, with less heros/maps it was simple and none complex compare to today's play style. I'm with Remus, toxicity has increased since then but that's what you can expect with most mobas


Was Illidan OP back then?

Actually, who were the OP heroes?
Beta aside (I did play some, but I was like level 20 in there), I liked the game more before Hots 2.0.

I don't think Hots 2.0 is particularly worse, but some of decisions regarding characters they made is what I don't like.
Also I'm not gonna hide, I don't like most of Overwatch heroes and I don't think game would suffer much if they were never added (I'm not saying to delete them now). I only like Zarya and Ana.
09/15/2018 03:11 PMPosted by phaseshifter
Was Illidan OP back then?

Actually, who were the OP heroes?


A properly supported Illidan was damn near impossible to kill as there was nowhere near as much CC back then as there is now. Metamorphosis was also quite potent as it gave him an attack speed boost at level 10. There were some jokes around that meta was short for metamorphosis with how powerful Illidan could be.

When the one talent Gathering Power(?) was around Nova and Kael'thas were both monsters. So long as they didn't die and they partook in kills they would get a 30% damage boost. While Nova could be countered with a well coordinated team, Kael'thas was capable of wrecking pretty much everyone and everything due to the way his skills interacted: You could prematurely detonate Living Bomb, Living Bomb used to spread to EVERYTHING, and Flamestrike had a talent called Flamethrower that applied Living Bomb to all heroes caught in the blast.

Kael'thas was so strong that he could wipe out entire creeps, mercenaries, and structures very quickly if they were all clumped together. Anyone laning against him had to be very careful not to get caught in a creep wave by him as he could easily apply Living Bomb to them then immediately apply a second one to detonate the bomb on his target which would apply Living Bomb onto everything in the blast radius. Unless you were playing as a really beefy hero such as Muradin, E.T.C, or Arthas you were going to die if you were caught in the blast. Even if you played as those heroes you were going to be running for the fountain very quickly.

Kael'thas also gets brownie points for being arguably the longest lasting hero before getting hit with the nerf bat. If I remember correctly he was OP from closed Beta all the way to about six months before 2.0 dropped, though I could be wrong.

Zeratul was harder to deal with as unlike Nova a seasoned player could gimp even a well coordinated team. Jaina was also able to do a lot of damage during those days, though nowhere near as much as Kael'thas.

Kerrigan was actually viable back then.

Pre-2.0 there were a couple monsters that cropped up.

Li-Ming for a while could wreck if the star's aligned and the talent Ess of Johan enabled her Arcane Orb to yank enemy heroes out of creep waves and into the path of Magic Missiles. If enemies were low enough health she could delete them very quickly, and her abilities were actually quite powerful against structures as well as minions.

Yet the most prominent hero during that period was Leoric who always surprises me in how no one brings up just how much of a monster he was. His skeletal swing did much more damage back then to minions and structures, he could effectively bully tough laners such as Zagarra and Hammer out of lane, and if you did kill him his respawn timer was so fast that it was merely a bump in the road for the Skeleton King. He was able to dish out and take a tremendous amount of punishment for a warrior, and all his abilities were more potent than they are today. Spectral Leech, for example, used to deal 5% of your health as damage and heal him for 5% of his total health.

Then on the opposite end of the spectrum was Stitches. As one member put it: "If you remove the barrel (bottom of the barrel example) and dig underneath, you'll find Stitches' corpse."
Yeah I do remember Stitches being bad. I also remember Malfurion being the best support all around for a long time.

Probably because he had cleanse and Mule.
09/15/2018 11:38 AMPosted by Geisard
How was the game back then, and how do you compare to now?

Anything in particular that you remember of that time and stuck in your memory?


according to my friend that quit who was there for alpha. balanace wise nothing changed an example of what he meant was "tychus odin had a second hp bar so tychus had tychus damge with Johana unkillablness not the current johanna but the old op clearly broken one. and players would say its just fine."

the biggest difference and the reason he quit was the obvious !@#$ report bot that was casuing all the better players to flat out quit or be banned on top of the other things better players do to protect there mmr like que dodging being penalized. he said it has all the marks of a bad game and well I agree with him and you can see how many games I have played. some of them where bad enough already to make me want to uninstall. I actually enabled the chat to as in one of them "is the game always this bad?" and got crickets because people clearly are over aware of the chat ban bot.

ps im ghosting the forums to see if any real changes will happens and sure enough nope. quiting is the only option same as the ea boycott blizzard needs one too.
Alpha player: Eventhough there were many of those generic talents you could follow different viable builds in many heroes like for example Tyrande.
She had a clear build for each situation. Marksman build, Healing build, Utility build and Owl build.
Now I see many heroes being homogenized into a only one category.
Beta player - I still love the game as before, but I'm frustrated as with everyone else with useless reworks of heroes and now useless map reworks. I miss master skins, but I appreciate the variety and the loot boxes system - otherwise I wouldn't have all the skins and cosmetic items I have.

Brawls and 2.0 was an overall positive addition but after Balder bald head left there was a noticable change away from unique playstyles to more streamlined techniques most likely for the pro scene.

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