Tired of Nova receiving such bs attention.

General Discussion
In the upcoming patch, they're giving Nova a few buffs...

Nova needs some love, so why do I have a problem with this? I'm honestly sick and tired of seeing Blizzard neglect Nova with some band-aid buffs. She used to be a "crowd-favorite," their words not mine, and they've completely dumpstered her over the years. Balder said she couldn't be competitive... how near-sighted. I'm guessing Dabiri feels the same...

There have been 100s of conversations on what Nova needs to be properly viable and I won't go over those in detail, I'll just sum it up to this: She needs to fill more than 1 role (single-target burst). A role she isn't even that good at. Lots of ways to give her the ability to do more without major kit changes and bring her into viability. It's been discussed to death ffs...

...so yeah, I have a problem with them continuing to slap Nova with some bandaid buffs here and there when all she needs is a minor rework giving her the ability to fill a couple roles. I've wanted a competitive Nova ever since she was my first main in my first moba ever.
It's even better when they nerf something in one patch and then turn around in another patch down the road and revert the original change and then have the audacity to call it a buff!

So yes...one of those "buffs" is actually a revert from an older nerf.
honestly that kind of can be said about all of the stealth heroes. I honestly would like a roll back of the stealth visuals...
Definately. Making Snipes more relevant by giving an extra second of reset is kinda good buff on a decent single target poke, with this it can be used more spammy and I believe this could annoy an opponents Sgt. Hammer quite much. Also I already suggested things like this:
- Basic attacks do 50-100% more damage to minions(She already has abysmal wave clearing, making her single target clear faster with her comparably weak assassins AA could help her very much)
- "Anti-Armor Shells" kills enemy minions with a single shot
- Having an AA based build for more sustained DPS(The new Snipe however could do this I bet)
- And her decoys could stay longer in fights instead of running away, particularly annyoing using "Holo Stability"
- Get rid of "Lethal Decoy", you won't likely be able to balance this properly I believe. Add a talent utilizing her AAs as another source of extra damage. Sth like "Sapping Projectiles" which does 2% of max life as extra damage, proportionally higher with "Anti-Armor Shells" and eventually giving her some improved life regeneration while damaging enemies.
09/17/2018 06:38 PMPosted by Void
honestly that kind of can be said about all of the stealth heroes. I honestly would like a roll back of the stealth visuals...


Stealth visuals before were no different for me. I could see the shimmer every time, but that was after I got an upgraded video card and Monitor, prior to that I couldn't see them worth a damn. Reverting the stealth is not what needs to be done, it is nothing more than an equipment/eye check.
09/17/2018 06:01 PMPosted by mynd
band-aid buffs.

Kid, 3s->2s is 100%->150% Snipe dps.

09/17/2018 06:01 PMPosted by mynd
She needs to fill more than 1 role (single-target burst).

That's what they're trying, and failing, to do with the explosive rounds buff.

The problem with only having single target burst is that it makes Nova too binary. When Nova is too strong, she instakills you from out of nowhere, but when she's too weak she can't do anything because all her burst just gets healed away.
At least she received attention xD. Poor D.Va :(.
I don't know why they don't want nova to be great but allow Valeera to blow up targets. I remember Nova use to be able to do the SAME thing but not have CC nor an escape yet that was deemed OP!!!
09/17/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Ganelon
It's even better when they nerf something in one patch and then turn around in another patch down the road and revert the original change and then have the audacity to call it a buff!

So yes...one of those "buffs" is actually a revert from an older nerf.

Yeah, perfect example is Advanced Cloaking. Sometime last year they buffed it so Nova had +25-30% move speed in Stealth. Then at the Hanzo release, she got 15% move speed baseline in Stealth and 5% from Advanced Cloaking. It's now back up to 25% with the talent on the PTR. Like, wtf? I have a long memory. I'm not fooled by any of this.
09/17/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Werbs
Stealth visuals before were no different for me. I could see the shimmer every time, but that was after I got an upgraded video card and Monitor, prior to that I couldn't see them worth a damn. Reverting the stealth is not what needs to be done, it is nothing more than an equipment/eye check.

After some balance changes when assassin become pusher (Illidan, Samuro) this is bad changes. Thats why old stealth better for Samuro, rework kill him as assassin but as pusher he is viable now and before (thats why this changes and stealth rework are sux).
Nova will always be in an odd place due to being shoe horned into one specific role that she can't even fulfill very well: single target damage burst.

Increase Snipe damage with a bit higher cooldown to make it more impactful, change Pinning Shot to EMP Round or Psionic Blast (or whatever you'd name it) for a low damage aoe slow for some slight wave clear, change Decoy to something else or allow Nova to control it rather then have it rely on gimped AI where it shoots once then runs off.

Delete Rewind from level 20 as it should have been removed a long time ago from all heroes imo - if her Early Game Impact isn't that great then take some of the late game out and improve that early game.
Although these buffs do not really address some of her neglected talents, they are very much welcomed to increase her teamfight potential.

When facing a strong front composition on the enemy, as a Nova you will have a hard time.
Trying to sneak to the back can work out if unguarded, but most of the time you place yourself at an unfavorable position to really do anything.

As such, snipe build with Explosive Shot (16) is my go-to build in such scenario.
Having sustained damage on AoE scale for no mana costs puts a huge strain on front-heavy enemy comps.
With the new changes, the effectiveness of Q build increases and makes Nova a larger treat in team fights.
Especially in Ranked games you will find comps consisting of 2 warriors + 1 healers more often than not, where Q build is very much welcome to use.

The only downside to this build is that you have to last till level 16 for it to really work, and most games tend to be defined around level 13 on most maps or simply won't make it till level 16.

So in all, I love these changes to make Nova's Q build more viable.
But as others also say, it does not address the problems with Nova and some of her talents.
09/17/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Ganelon
It's even better when they nerf something in one patch and then turn around in another patch down the road and revert the original change and then have the audacity to call it a buff!

So yes...one of those "buffs" is actually a revert from an older nerf.


Or the other fun option they went for with Snipe. First 'buff' it by giving it a situational bonus in exchange for a baseline nerf. Then conclude the ability is too strong with the bonus , so add nerfs until the ability goes from 'baseline weak, but situationally good' to 'baseline very weak, situationally average'.

I like that they're buffing Nova, but they're really missing the mark with these changes. They need to look at (and remove) Snipe Master. It's a great effect for a talent, but terrible to have baseline.
I think that much of the 'Nova isn't competitive' stems from the past where this was truly the case, but is also tied to the compositions where she works. We have seen various players reaching high Master, even Grand Master while maining Nova.

There's alot of talk for example how Samuro as well is a garbage hero, but then we see how he and Nova sit at a 57% and 52% winrate respectively in Diamond and Master HL games. The only difference: 20% pickrate for Samuro versus 4% pickrate for Nova. Also considering HGC picks, where Nova has played 6W + 13L games and was banned 2 times and Samuro is featured with 38W + 28L and 55 bans ; effectively accounting a 0% popularity for Nova and a 1% popularity for Samuro final.

So what we know is that these heroes are unpopular in HGC, which shouldn't suprise us since HGC only has 15 playable heroes and should not be our standard of measure when looking at Nova's place. What we do know is that she can work at competitive level, and when looking at non - pro but still highly competitive settings: GM, M, and D league, she is viable for wins, but only in niche situations.

Why is this the case? Nova is a single target burst mage. This does not work well against double warrior compositions and does not work well against double support compositions. This is however extremely viable in a more chaotic environment, such as teams of at least 3 squishy targets (3 !@#. 1 Tank 1 Supp.) Not to forget QM, where often warriors and healers are nowhere to be found. Double warrior compositions are meta however, which explains the 4% popularity pickrate. Having a tank + bruiser solo laner is almost mandatory nowadays. Nova is hard to justify here, since your own comp also requires this model, and this leaves no place for a single target burst mage without any map control. I know what's going to be said here, "but I have an 80% winrate with Nova in HL", yup but in general she is not in a favourable spot.

However, this does not mean that the hero is not competitive or viable, it means the hero is niche. There is an extremely relevant difference here. You see people say that Nova is bad at killing single persons, but this is very much so not the case. I'm not arguing that she has great escape or mobility, I'm not arguing that she has great waveclear and means to control the map, but there is no denying that her damage output is competitive. She does not deal no damage. She is able to compete, as a damage dealer. Buffing a hero that still excells at dealing damage is going to overtune her. Look at her position before the latest damage nerf, completely overtuned hero that was able to take down entire teams on her own. Maybe fun for the Nova player, but not healthy game design.

Recently I saw a video of Nubkeks bashing the hero, but playing her horribly horribly wrong. He played the wrong build, focussed Garrosh, and then wondered why he couldn't kill a Garrosh being supported by a Whitemane with Nova auto attack build, failing to realise that if he went for AA slugs + Double pinning shot and armor strip he could delete Whitemane every single fight.

I would argue that Nova is in a good spot for her fantasy, high single target damage, and is able to compete for those spots very well. I would not want to see her reworked into some AoE mage, because we already have those and that is not her role. I would suggest people to adapt her talents accordingly to the game you are playing. If you fight vs a Tracer, go for the AA build. If you need to delete a support, AA slugs and armour reduction.
I like Nova's state. She is not HL material (only if u are really good) but in QM she is powerful.

So much combos can be combined with precision strike and also at level 20 you get 2 charges with reduced cool-down, so u can spam them all the time. It's like orbital BFG - clears waves in one strike.

Her area damage power spike on 16 is really good, especially now with the buff. Keep in mind that precision strike can be used for wave clear to gain globally needed xp. One thing that I would change is move area damage talent to level 13.
People honestly aren't playing Nova right, and haven't been for years. The actual key to playing Nova is to entirely ignore the stealth mechanic while you're playing her.

When I play Nova, I play her almost the same way I play Ming. I typically use the OitC build with all the talents that synergize with it, and then I spend the entire game in the enemy's face constantly spamming out OitC procs. I take Precision strike with the 20 upgrade for more charges, and then in addition to constantly being in the enemy's face, I'm pushing lanes with my ult (or occasionally using it to secure kills).

This playstyle is actually quite overwhelming and has given me a very solid win rate with Nova. I honestly never even notice or interact with the stealth mechanic at all during the game. I just play like I would play Ming, with the addition of split-pushing with my ult, and my games end up being quite enjoyable.

I think people are still trying to be that "one shot a squishy" Hero with her and that simply doesn't work anymore, nor should it. People need to realize that their Nova fantasy doesn't line up with Nova's reality at all.

Just my two cents. I think the changes are fine.
09/18/2018 05:10 AMPosted by ilke
I like Nova's state. She is not HL material (only if u are really good) but in QM she is powerful.
That's the problem, anyone can be powerful in QM because it's a clown-fiesta with little to no coordination.

09/18/2018 05:50 AMPosted by Lightning
People honestly aren't playing Nova right, and haven't been for years. The actual key to playing Nova is to entirely ignore the stealth mechanic while you're playing her.
I don't think this is information that people don't know. The problem is she is nearly totally useless pre-7 and doesn't really come online until 16. There is really no reason to pick her over the Ming in your example, who has more range, more damage, better/more reliable mobility, and is not punished severely for missing. Nova has a bunch of ridiculous caveats (baseline snipe master, high mana costs, permanently kept weak as if stealth is a powerful trait when it's complete trash, 1/3 of her base kit dependent on garbage AI behavior, etc) when her damage output is average at best, even with Snipe stacked up. She doesn't feel rewarding to play, she feels like you're constantly playing with a handicap and the payoff just isn't there.
I like Nova's state. She is not HL material (only if u are really good) but in QM she is powerful. .


She's actually below average in quick match. The mobility assassins that plague QM own her...which reflects her winrates.
People might forget when talking about Nova that she has far too many downsides for the very few upsides. Any other hero might have less drawbacks to be good at sth.

About Rewind, I also kinda feel it turned to a rather useless "STORM" talent. Decoys are unreliable as damage source, Pinning Shot only restores 1 charge if having double charge talented and Snipe has its damage been lowered quite alot and won't synergize well with her snipe build. Exposive Rounds might give her ok'ish wave clear but it comes way to late and PS is usually the better wave clearer against strong pushs and has a fantastic 20 upgrade. Two charges of Snipe with its current iteration of damage would be a better talent than Rewind I believe. Also I think that her Perfect Snipe talent could give some minor mana cost reductions to be less reliant on her 13 talent for free shots on heroes.
09/18/2018 02:40 AMPosted by Arangunnar
We have seen various players reaching high Master, even Grand Master while maining Nova.

In the past master hl, Nova used to have low popularity around 3-4%, and high winrate around 55%. After all these nerfs, she consistently has 1.6% popularity (the worst besides Cho Gall) and 46.3% winrate. Even famous nova main, SonicLebeast, has abandoned her.

09/18/2018 02:40 AMPosted by Arangunnar

So what we know is that these heroes are unpopular in HGC, which shouldn't suprise us since HGC only has 15 playable heroes and should not be our standard of measure when looking at Nova's place. What we do know is that she can work at competitive level, and when looking at non - pro but still highly competitive settings: GM, M, and D league, she is viable for wins, but only in niche situations.

Again, her current master level stats are 1.6% popularity and 46.3% winrate. Assuming master HL players are serious, they should know when best to pick her (1.6% of the times) and she still has bad win rate. A real niche hero should have slightly better popularity and way higher win rate. But this is not the case. Besides, many posts suggest that playing Nova in HL will likely result in being reported or insulted. These are not good signs of a well designed hero.

09/18/2018 02:40 AMPosted by Arangunnar

Why is this the case? Nova is a single target burst mage. This does not work well against double warrior compositions and does not work well against double support compositions.

I don't think single target burst is the sole reason. Tracer plays a similar role: secure kill and single target burst, but Tracer is viable because she has better sustain damage and survivability. Nova can do the burst, but her sustain damage and escape suffers.

09/18/2018 02:40 AMPosted by Arangunnar

However, this does not mean that the hero is not competitive or viable, it means the hero is niche. There is an extremely relevant difference here. You see people say that Nova is bad at killing single persons, but this is very much so not the case. I'm not arguing that she has great escape or mobility, I'm not arguing that she has great waveclear and means to control the map, but there is no denying that her damage output is competitive. She does not deal no damage. She is able to compete, as a damage dealer.

No one denies Nova can burst, they just say that some other assassins can do similar amount of burst or more, while having better survivability and utility.
09/18/2018 02:40 AMPosted by Arangunnar

Buffing a hero that still excells at dealing damage is going to overtune her. Look at her position before the latest damage nerf, completely overtuned hero that was able to take down entire teams on her own. Maybe fun for the Nova player, but not healthy game design.

First, many heroes can do more damage, yet they have other utilities. Second, many heroes have the potential to team wipe. Third, Nova was only briefly op due to the AOE snap bug. It had nothing to do with her design.

09/18/2018 02:40 AMPosted by Arangunnar

I would argue that Nova is in a good spot for her fantasy, high single target damage, and is able to compete for those spots very well. I would not want to see her reworked into some AoE mage, because we already have those and that is not her role. I would suggest people to adapt her talents accordingly to the game you are playing. If you fight vs a Tracer, go for the AA build. If you need to delete a support, AA slugs and armour reduction.

First, Nova's fantasy in starcraft is not just a sniper. She is supposed to have psionic ability. In covert ops and coop, she is known for various utilities. Second, she does not fill the single target burst role well. Tracer and Ming are examples of viable single target burst (while many Ming's abilities seem to be AOE, most of the areas are small. In real fight, Ming usually kills one by one).

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