As much as i love Stukov in hots

General Discussion
I don't really think his playstyle actually fits well with his theme. You would think that as an infested terran he would be focused on infecting everything around him including structures and not be a support but rather as a specialist. It doesn't really make sense as to why he is a healer. Out of all the other characters from starcraft he is the only one who doesn't really play to this theme.

edit: that's not to say he is bad in hots as i know he is quite good at being a support it's just that being a support is kind of weird for him.
You are a few months later buddy... When he was releases, he got 2 major complains:

-useless LV.20 choices.
-why he is a support?

Personally, I like him better this way, because it opens up possibility for an Infector hero in the future (more heroes, more fun), but I get the complains about his kit too.
09/23/2018 05:36 PMPosted by Nyumus
You are a few months later buddy... When he was releases, he got 2 major complains:

-useless LV.20 choices.
-why he is a support?

Personally, I like him better this way, because it opens up possibility for an Infector hero in the future (more heroes, more fun), but I get the complains about his kit too.


yeah i know it's late. It's just that this playstyle goes against his character and doesn't actually fit his theme as an infested terran. It honestly doesn't make a lot of sense. I still enjoy playing him as he is fun to play. It just irks me every now and then how he was never made to suit his character theme but rather was made for the meta of this game with little consideration of his playstyle.
09/23/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Bloodrush
You would think that as an infested terran he would be focused on infecting everything around him including structures and not be a support but rather as a specialist.


You'd think that, unless you actually played Heart of the Swarm.

You know, where you got to control him as an infested terran. And he had a regeneration aura. And his major role was supporting Kerrigan as she was taking down the bad guy.
09/23/2018 06:01 PMPosted by Morthion
09/23/2018 05:09 PMPosted by Bloodrush
You would think that as an infested terran he would be focused on infecting everything around him including structures and not be a support but rather as a specialist.


You'd think that, unless you actually played Heart of the Swarm.

You know, where you got to control him as an infested terran. And he had a regeneration aura. And his major role was supporting Kerrigan as she was taking down the bad guy.


He did have a regenerative aura however he was also able to spawn infested terran and infect enemy buildings making them take more damage in Heart of the Swarm as well. So there is quite a good reason why I think that.
He healed things one time in one mission and was labeled as a support in hots. Go figure. It wasn't even a heal, it was a passive regeneration buff to zerg that already had regeneration.

What happened to his corrosive blast? Aleksander? Apocolysk? Summon infested marines? Infest structures to repair and send out broodlings? His make a structure that spawns trashmobs? His infested banshees, seige tanks, diamondbacks, or his infested liberators. All sorts of augmentations to said infested units.

"lol nah let's make him a support".
09/23/2018 06:08 PMPosted by Tazrizen
He healed things one time in one mission and was labeled as a support in hots. Go figure. It wasn't even a heal, it was a passive regeneration buff to zerg that already had regeneration.

What happened to his corrosive blast? Aleksander? Apocolysk? Summon infested marines? Infest structures to repair and send out broodlings? His make a structure that spawns trashmobs? His infested banshees, seige tanks, diamondbacks, or his infested liberators. All sorts of augmentations to said infested units.

"lol nah let's make him a support".
Someone gets it. lol
His whole thing in this game is playing around with disease... it's weird, but I've grown used to that part. Like he always says - "The end is a c--t."

He uses regenerative strains for his allies, and aggressive strains for his enemies. He's basically infesting you with the zerg virus - in a good way for allies, bad way for enemies.

It would be great if tentacles, eyeballs and junk started sprouting out of the players that have the buffs and debuffs active, but silhouette issues, I know.

The thing that gets me though is his ults. His basic kit is designed around keeping everyone clumped together, so his viruses can spread. Bring them in, slow them down, silence them...

...and then push them away as far as possible...? What? Which anime's did the devs get high in front of to think of Stukov's ults?

PS - if you are looking for the infested terrans - that is what his basic kit is trying to portray -within the realms of a HotS gameplay. He is infesting both ally and enemy with the zerg virus. The heroes are essentially his infested army. Although it would look totally badass, you can't really change the player models to reflect this.
09/23/2018 06:08 PMPosted by Tazrizen
He healed things one time in one mission and was labeled as a support in hots. Go figure. It wasn't even a heal, it was a passive regeneration buff to zerg that already had regeneration.

What happened to his corrosive blast? Aleksander? Apocolysk? Summon infested marines? Infest structures to repair and send out broodlings? His make a structure that spawns trashmobs? His infested banshees, seige tanks, diamondbacks, or his infested liberators. All sorts of augmentations to said infested units.

"lol nah let's make him a support".

Exactly. His coop version is all about infesting/infested things.
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Alexei_Stukov_(Co-op_Missions)

And let's look at his shop page:
https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/commander-stukov

Establish control
Infest the battlefield with your mindless horde of obedient units. Summon never-before-seen monsters and swarm-infested terran units to build an unstoppable army.

Dominate with innumerable infested
Wear down your opponent's defenses with a steady swarm of troops. Build Infested Diamondbacks and devastate your adversaries as you drag air units to the ground and leave a trail of destructive slime.

Devastate the enemy
Overwhelm your enemies with monstrous power and an elite army of upgraded units like swarm-infected Missile Turrets, Apocolisks, and Infested Super Battlecruisers.

Liking how he plays/the fact that he is a support is fine, but anyone saying he fits more as as support than some sort of infestation specialist is just doing some serious reaching.
We had several of this topic before. Blizzard didn't want yet another Zerg summoner when we had Zagara already in that hole, so they picked the one Zerg character who had a healing aura and decided to go with that.

Comparing heroes to coop incarnations ins't always the best, one is focused on abilities that empower the control of armies, the other is usually focused on personal abilities to fill the designed role.

I'd dare to say that if Raynor came out today he probably wouldn't have the Banshee heroic, Blizzard is trying to avoid summons. I'd even guess that Stitches may lose the summon from talent when he gets reworked for that same reason.
09/23/2018 06:08 PMPosted by Tazrizen
What happened to his corrosive blast?


I'll give you that one, but only because damaging people through pathogens isn't a one-to-one correspondence. It's just Stukov launching something at the enemy that damages them heavily.

Aleksander?


Wasn't in Heart of the Swarm.

Apocolysk?


Wasn't in Heart of the Swarm.

Summon infested marines?


Was done by Infestors in WoL, so is hardly iconic to Stukov.

So the conclusion we draw is simply that Blizzard chose to emphasize different aspects of Stukov than the ones some people wanted (we just witnessed somebody asking for two abilities he didn't have at some point, so the argument that he doesn't have regen aura all the time goes out the window). He spent his time in Brood War as an advisor to Du Galle. He spent his time in Heart of the Swarm helping out Kerrigan. Both of these are supporting roles, so they made him a support. Seems natural enough.


...

Wasn't in Heart of the Swarm.

[quote]Apocolysk?


[quote]Wasn't in Heart of the Swarm.


that argument doesn't work as he was available as a co-op commander with those abilities before he was introduced as a character in hots by almost a year. The only "healing" abilites he has ever had is as a hero in heart of the swarm where he has a passive regen aoe and as a co-op commander where he heals friendly buildings that he infests.

the problem is that his abilities aren't infestation like they should be. He doesn't have to be a summoner to be able to properly infest. He could infest enemy minions to turn them on each other or infest friendly and enemy buildings.

These are the things that play to his character. The ones he currently has don't make sense. Even the healing ability he has isn't like the one he actually does.

The only thing that is accurate about his character is his design, voice and name alone.

Now again, that's not to say his current kit is bad. It's really freaking good and it is still satisfying to play as but it is not Stukov.
09/23/2018 07:20 PMPosted by SoulFilcher
We had several of this topic before. Blizzard didn't want yet another Zerg summoner when we had Zagara already in that hole, so they picked the one Zerg character who had a healing aura and decided to go with that.


Regen aura in one mission, right before that he's literally infesting an entire sky platform to use as fodder to push into a building. Infesting buildings and controlling infested terran.

09/23/2018 07:20 PMPosted by SoulFilcher
Comparing heroes to coop incarnations ins't always the best, one is focused on abilities that empower the control of armies, the other is usually focused on personal abilities to fill the designed role.


Raynor still has his hyperion, marine stimpack style of play in his current iteration, he also summoned banshees (called duskwings) in coop and does the same in hots. In fact a lot of kerrigan is still relatable from starcraft, she get shields from dealing damage, has a leaping damage attack, AoE effects and has torrasques as a unit that she frequently summons. Artanis is ,granted, a lot more shield oriented but his abilities still reflect his lore, using the spear of adun to help him in cross map fights.

Sure there are a lot of characters that do not 100% bring their kits from starcraft, they shouldn't, but they still reflect their lore and style to some degree.

The problem is stukov completely disregards this. He did a lot more killing than any other act of healing. In fact in the very same mission he is greeted by a dead ultralisk that abathur reconstitutes and addresses stukov that he is mistaken about how the swarm operates.

If anything, abathur was much more the healer of the group than stukov, putting symbiotes on his larges units, evolving them into bigger things, giving them passive healing on attack and they got stronger the more biomass they obtained. He even has a global mend that practically brought every unit in the game to full HP in a matter of moments. (ok maybe stretching that a bit but it's like 300 hp in a game of 400 is a large total, comparatively 400 is like muradin in avatar state tanky).

09/23/2018 07:20 PMPosted by SoulFilcher
I'd dare to say that if Raynor came out today he probably wouldn't have the Banshee heroic, Blizzard is trying to avoid summons. I'd even guess that Stitches may lose the summon from talent when he gets reworked for that same reason.


They reworked him into one banshee that he can micro constantly. If they didn't want summons that badly, they wouldn't have left that in his kit and even if they didn't remove it because lore reasons, well stukov does not fit his bill at all.

09/23/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Morthion
I'll give you that one, but only because damaging people through pathogens isn't a one-to-one correspondence. It's just Stukov launching something at the enemy that damages them heavily.


Completely stripping armor and increasing their damage taken is what it did. If they wanted to keep him a support fine but they could've made him look remotely like what he did lore wise.

09/23/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Morthion
Was done by Infestors in WoL, so is hardly iconic to Stukov.


He does it as his second ability in the exact same mission he has his passive regen aura that made him labeled a healer. Infestors may have done it first but stukov mastered the crap out of it. That's his entire army's playstyle and his main method of siege.

09/23/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Morthion
So the conclusion we draw is simply that Blizzard chose to emphasize different aspects of Stukov than the ones some people wanted (we just witnessed somebody asking for two abilities he didn't have at some point, so the argument that he doesn't have regen aura all the time goes out the window).


One regen aura once in one mission.

Well damn, how come arthas isn't resurrecting people as deathknights.

I'd accept this as an answer if he actually kept any of his previous abilities but these are completely out of left field. If you were to go back in time and show these abilities without names to people in a survey on these forums people would never guess stukov.

09/23/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Morthion
He spent his time in Brood War as an advisor to Du Galle. He spent his time in Heart of the Swarm helping out Kerrigan. Both of these are supporting roles, so they made him a support. Seems natural enough.


He's an adviser so that mean's he must be a support. Ok. Well by that logic, zagara should be a support too. Actually just about everyone in kerrigan's wing were advisers to her, except ironically abathur that simply modified the army.

In fact how come chromie isn't a support if this is the case. Most of the time she's just giving quests and advice, for the most part not stepping in.

Also in heart of the swarm he's commanding masses of infested terran to siege a city so she can kill mengsk, infesting the platform that houses hybrid and naruud, killing naruud after in the mission to the void to rescuing oro. Almost every part he played was killing or sieging, not healing in the slightest.
09/23/2018 09:33 PMPosted by Tazrizen
He's an adviser so that mean's he must be a support.


Actually, it's more that he can't do jack because Du Galle is being a moron -- which definitely means he should be a Support in HotS. :)

The complaints still boil down to "I like other abilities better." Stukov damages by infesting, heals by infesting, and both are justifiable by lore.

Abathur already symbiotes structures, so that was out on the defensive side. Ragnaros was already taking over enemy forts, so that was out.
As mentioned above, they already had a zerg that spawns stuff, so that was out.

One regen aura once in one mission.

Well damn, how come arthas isn't resurrecting people as deathknights.


Now you're just being silly. If Arthas in HotS *did* have an ability to raise death knights, would you be on the forums saying it wasn't appropriate for him to be doing so? Should we get rid of Sindragosa because we could only control her for one mission in Frozen Throne?
Welcome to the world of hots where "Crap, we need another support!" leads to gutting of beloved characters as we know them.

The D3 monk was an in your face DPS character not a healer for example.
09/23/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Morthion
The complaints still boil down to "I like other abilities better." Stukov damages by infesting, heals by infesting, and both are justifiable by lore.


He's healed once in lore, he's infested structures and people far more in lore, all people asked is for him- no actually- all heroes to do what they represent in lore.

Remember the time that illidan was a druid? Or that guldan was a shaman? How bout we make them druids and shamans. Remember when nova had a laser sword and could teleport? Let's make her a not-sniper and make her a CQC assassin instead.

Just because they could do it once in the story does not mean it should define them here.

09/23/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Morthion
Abathur already symbiotes structures, so that was out on the defensive side. Ragnaros was already taking over enemy forts, so that was out.
As mentioned above, they already had a zerg that spawns stuff, so that was out.


Ah Xul spawns minions so that's out, Zag spawns minions so that's out too. Azmodan spawns minions so I guess we shouldn't do that. Abathur spa- wait a minute, a lot of heroes actually use mechanics found in other heroes but with different kits! This is a revolutionary idea. Quickly! We must tell the devs!

If your only excuse is to why he couldn't be a specialist that could corrupt structures and spawn/infest minions was because other people could do it then I think you might as well condemn the rest of the specialists based around that too.

The whole reason ragnaros is badass is because of his unique mechanics to- well- be ragnaros, no breaks on his design. Stukov? Stukov was taken and turned into something completely different.

09/23/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Morthion
Now you're just being silly. If Arthas in HotS *did* have an ability to raise death knights, would you be on the forums saying it wasn't appropriate for him to be doing so? Should we get rid of Sindragosa because we could only control her for one mission in Frozen Throne?


Xul could make heroes into skelemages previous iteration, I would have no qualms about his level 20 heroic turning heroes into ghouls to use for healing.

You on the other hand, are greatly, VASTLY over exaggerating his healing in lore. Condoning his entire character design based around being a support instead of being based around being an infestation god. You can say all you want that he's justified being a support because he did one thing once, but almost everyone else that knows starcraft lore will tell you that his kit here is not stukov.
A lot of veteran players were worried stukov would be a summoner because of how unpopular summoner heroes end up being.
His little slow blob attack is one of the limpest things in blizz history. Replace it with a summon.
Same for Abathur... Abathur is supposed to be about improving organisms chasing perfection, not about putting some parasite on peoples head...
09/23/2018 11:41 PMPosted by Degaris
A lot of veteran players were worried stukov would be a summoner because of how unpopular summoner heroes end up being.


Abathur and azmodan see tons of proplay.

This is more on how poor summoners turn out in HGC than anything else, that's a balancing issue, not a lore issue.

09/24/2018 12:02 AMPosted by Raoul9753
Same for Abathur... Abathur is supposed to be about improving organisms chasing perfection, not about putting some parasite on peoples head...


I mean within reason, his kit is actually pretty ok. He keeps his toxic mines, he has healing abilities, he summons locusts, he can create a perfected copy of a hero, he has his symbiote with darts.

I think the devs need to touch up his talents a bit but considering, abathur came out pretty well in his hots version. I mean besides not having the rest of his body attached, maybe that's why he's a bit weaker in the nexus.

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