Let's discuss Mephisto and Consume Souls..

General Discussion
Consume Souls has an overwhelming 95% pick rate (Hotslogs) compared to Durance of Hate, and it is no question why.

It is because Consume Souls feels pretty broken and oppressive to play against. It's not a skill shot, but it hits with all but 100% reliability and effectively one shotting anybody who made a close getaway.

Redesign this no skill, it's not fun to play against and it makes Last Rites just look plain bad in comparison. Why should Mephisto who is for sure a superior duelist then Malthael also have a phenomenally stronger version of Malthael's ultimate?

It really just makes no sense from either a design or a balance stand point. It has little interesting counter play and it completely overlaps/overshadows Last Rites, seriously redesign it if not to keep Malthael somewhat in the game.
Sorry what? Mephisto a better duelist than Malthael? Mephisto is much better in teamfight brawls, but he certainly is not a duelist. He can't get the cooldown reduction he needs for his trait as easily in 1 on 1 fights. Put any of the games actual duelists against him and they will smoke him every time.

The reason Consume Souls has such a high pickrate is because Durance is a glorified Malf root attached to a skillshot. The level 20 upgrade for it is nice, but you are pretty much playing the hero with a gimped ult until that point. Durance needs to be buffed pretty substantially. Consume Souls is fine where it is. If Mephisto is overperforming (which all numbers point to the contrary at the moment), his lightning nova build would probably be a good place to start considering its where the actual brunt of his damage comes from.
Consume Souls has an overwhelming 95% pick rate (Hotslogs) compared to Durance of Hate, and it is no question why.
yea because Durance of Hate is hot garbage.

It is because Consume Souls feels pretty broken and oppressive to play against. It's not a skill shot, but it hits with all but 100% reliability and effectively one shotting anybody who made a close getaway.
yea, it punishes people who aren't very good at the game by not letting them escape without a fight. one of the worst habits that players have is relaxing after a fight they barely survive. then they get killed by a tyrande owl pre-rework, a KTZ shadow fissure, a nova precision strike, etc, come onto the forum and complain those things are broken, just like they do with Consume Souls.

Redesign this no skill, it's not fun to play against and it makes Last Rites just look plain bad in comparison. Why should Mephisto who is for sure a superior duelist then Malthael also have a phenomenally stronger version of Malthael's ultimate?


haha this is kind of adorable. Mephisto is a terrible duelist and not too great in the solo lane. he has to expend mana just to clear waves at a decent pace and has no real self sustain. meanwhile Malthael can just hold Q as he's cleaving waves with his auto attacks and keep himself topped off. Malthael even has his main build revolve around solo lane and dueling people 1v1. meanwhile Mephisto has to position perfectly (often using shade in the process) just to do any damage at all.

It really just makes no sense from either a design or a balance stand point. It has little interesting counter play and it completely overlaps/overshadows Last Rites, seriously redesign it if not to keep Malthael somewhat in the game.


The difference is that Malthael deals % damage, making him far superior against bosses and super high HP heroes, particularly those with armor. last rites also has the benefit of complete % damage. after a certain threshold, you WILL be killed by it (malthael also doesn't have to channel it as it goes off after a set period of time regardless of what he's doing) making it a much more consistent finisher. Last Rites ALSO has baked in cooldown reduction the more people that die with the ult on them.
Durance isn't underpicked because Consume Souls is OP. It's underpicked because it's one of the worst ultimates ever given to a hero.
09/16/2018 10:10 PMPosted by Beelzebub
Why should Mephisto who is for sure a superior duelist then Malthael
Credibility: Lost.

Irony is that, that Malthael is a really good counter to Mephisto. Same with Illidan, Murky and basically any melee.

He also can't duel and bad for sololane.

And Consume Souls is countered by a lot of things (and not just by abilities but like: get a healer or force teamfights when CS is on cd).

P.S.: Durance of Hate is bad.
Lets see...

A global ult that auto targets every hero, deals a high burst of damage, reveals, and -slows- the enemy team for a good amount of time

VS

An awkward to use skillshot root that requires the enemy team to hump one another to make it effective.

choices, choices.
09/16/2018 10:10 PMPosted by Beelzebub
Why should Mephisto who is for sure a superior duelist then Malthael also have a phenomenally stronger version of Malthael's ultimate?
Okay, I agreed with everything you said up to this point.

Malthael certainly isn't one of the strongest duelists in the game, but Mephisto is easily one of the worst duelists. You cannot compare a mediocre duelist like Malthael to a completely terrible one like Mephisto.

Everything else you said is accurate, though.

09/17/2018 12:57 AMPosted by Karabars
Irony is that, that Malthael is a really good counter to Mephisto. Same with Illidan, Murky and basically any melee.
Or any hero that can stutter-step or kite at all, really.
It shouldn't have that disgusting slow with a global range.

Currently its too good of a tool.

Enemies escaping? Ult.
Enemies attacking? Ult.
Don't know where the enemy team is, but you think they're doing a boss? Ult.
Got the doublecast talent? If you kill one person with it you're guaranteed to kill the healer too.

Also the fact that the developers threw that "It has a 2.5 second cast time."
Consume Souls offers no drawback and literally zero counter play.

I think the double cast talent needs to go away or the disgusting slow.
Immediately after Mephisto's release, there were lots of debates about his ult, and whether he was op. At that time, people pulled data from hotslogs, which wasn't impressive. I thought we need to wait slightly longer for hotslogs to be accurate. Now after 1 week, here are Mephisto's stats: Overall HL: 63.1% popularity (4th highest), 54.5% winrate (3rd highest). In master HL: 66% popularity (3rd highest), and 59.3% winrate (12th highest). As mentioned before consume souls' pick rate is above 95% in both overall HL and master HL.

Based on these stats, I would not say he is perfectly fine. I would hope to see some minor adjustments to balance his two ults.
The ulti is literally way too punishing and does offer any considerable type of counter play. People saying it is equivalent to a Tyrande Owl, Nova Precision Strike, or KTz Shadow Fissure is grossly negligent to the amount of skill required for timing, aim, etc. whereas this ulti, you don't have to worry about any of that just a click and literally a quarter of health from all 5 members is gone.

Even IF you happen to have burst heals from Li Li (which is still gradual for one player at a time, 2 at 20), or Lucio ulti there is STILL the punishing slow that comes afterward. You could possibly use Medivh or Zarya but the solutions to "counter" or "recover" are still practically extreme....
the idea that there is no skill involved in perfectly timing an ult with a 2 minute cooldown that also has a 2.5 second channel and is telegraphed for the ENTIRE duration is complete nonsense.
The problem is the ultimate is the high damage. 700 damage with global range to everyone is huge, double that to 1400 if it kills any hero, even a Samuro image. However that is its base damage, throw in spell power buff and possibly an ana nano boost and that is over 1.1k damage, 2.2k if it procs the double hit. Sure some heroes can block the damage, but not all heroes can. Sure some heroes can block the damage for allies, but that often has a high cost in terms of cooldown.

Chances are Mephisto will not be using it on you when you are at sparkly 100% health, rather when you are at 30% health after an engagement. It is basically a heavily upgraded Malthael ultimate, since like Malthael's ultimate it will kill low health heroes without being blocked except unlike Malthael's ultimate it effects everyone, anywhere and can reproc itself at level 20 if even a decoy or illusion dies.

Consume Souls is easily the most powerful non-combo ultimate in the game.
09/17/2018 10:30 PMPosted by DrSuperGood
even a Samuro image.
It not triggers on clones and decoys.

Killing someone with it isn't really easy and the recast is only after lvl 20.
Maybe the other ulti just blow?
They're buffing Durance, and very slight nerf to consume souls.

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