Comic no.3(spoilers)

General Discussion
09/24/2018 03:29 PMPosted by Deshara
HotS isnt canon


HotS has its own canon now.
09/24/2018 06:42 PMPosted by KydenHeart
09/24/2018 03:29 PMPosted by Deshara
HotS isnt canon


HotS has its own canon now.


The story of Raynor meeting Uther and fighting Diablo will forever be canon to me. (Never forget...)

As for the comic, I think it would have helped if we actually SAW how Drek'thar got deceived by the Raven Lord instead of just being told that it happened, and if we SAW how the battle played out in Alterac instead of just being told "Welp, the Alliance lost."

Also, what somebody else said above about not having any characters to care about wasn't entirely accurate, because it would be a safe assumption on Blizzard's part that even if we didn't care at all for anybody introduced in these comics, we'd sure care about characters introduced in other IPs, like Deckard Cain and Jim Raynor. But they don't get a lot of focus this time around, which is a shame. I would like to see something like Raynor and Uther talking about the battle ahead. For that matter, it would be interesting to see how somebody like Alarak reacted to his Dark Nexus doppelganger, maybe a mirror match between the two.

It seems like there was potential here that wasn't realized. It could have been if the comic were longer. Is there a reason it wasn't? Do they only have a budget for so many panels and lines of story, or what?
09/24/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Gonchin

Anyone notice the two Alexstrasza's fighting to the death? Every skin is a separate individual in this canon.


It was clear from skin descriptions. And i would prefer SUCH way ( dunno how to name it, dark souls-one?) instead of generic, friday-show story.

Why invest so much time and effros in blank, generic heroes? "ME EVIL", great. Why no really intersting things to tell a story - interactions between well known heroes? What could have happened if Alarak meets Belial? Or Valerian meets Varian? etc and etc. Aw, wait, you need to think of story, character image and dialoges for that. Not EVIL SOMETHING.TM.

Sigh. I just hope we losed 3d homescreens not because of THAT.

P.S. Funny thing, even "reddit-we-like-everything-we-got" are not so happy with comic.
09/24/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Aguy
09/24/2018 06:42 PMPosted by KydenHeart
...

HotS has its own canon now.


The story of Raynor meeting Uther and fighting Diablo will forever be canon to me. (Never forget...)

As for the comic, I think it would have helped if we actually SAW how Drek'thar got deceived by the Raven Lord instead of just being told that it happened, and if we SAW how the battle played out in Alterac instead of just being told "Welp, the Alliance lost."

Also, what somebody else said above about not having any characters to care about wasn't entirely accurate, because it would be a safe assumption on Blizzard's part that even if we didn't care at all for anybody introduced in these comics, we'd sure care about characters introduced in other IPs, like Deckard Cain and Jim Raynor. But they don't get a lot of focus this time around, which is a shame. I would like to see something like Raynor and Uther talking about the battle ahead. For that matter, it would be interesting to see how somebody like Alarak reacted to his Dark Nexus doppelganger, maybe a mirror match between the two.

It seems like there was potential here that wasn't realized. It could have been if the comic were longer. Is there a reason it wasn't? Do they only have a budget for so many panels and lines of story, or what?


Exactly, one of the things that got me hyped about these comics as the chance of seeing the different chars interacting with each other.
Seeing the corrupted Gul'dan and Alarak was what I was wishing the most and it was such a let down... I wanted to see those 2, making a badass villian tag team duo that would make all the good guys run for their money... eventually building for maybe a dramatic clash of Artanis and Thrall or Illidan vs Alarak and Gul'dan

How could they miss that??
09/24/2018 04:11 PMPosted by FeralChaos
I don't like to say this, but the comic maintains the issue I had since the first one: "I don't care what happens to these people."

We have no reason to care about any of the characters presented in the lore/comics, Realm Lord or otherwise. We have no reason to care about any of the events that take place, especially not when the comic basically undermines the Fall of King's Crest event that begins tomorrow by having the outcome already decided.

Again, I have to ask why we needed lore to begin with; they're not even doing anything interesting.
This sums up my feelings pretty well.

HotS didn't need a story to begin with, and the story they're giving it is painfully generic fantasy schlock. Why bother?
That's how Blizzard tells the tale of "gutting Garden of Terror", my only hope is that Dragon Shire can be left untouched, but the fact the Dragon Knight appeared like that in the comic leaves me worried.
09/24/2018 06:35 PMPosted by Gonchin
Anyone notice the two Alexstrasza's fighting to the death? Every skin is a separate individual in this canon.
Without Hanzo. Who was riding on her in comic 1...
They just threw her in so they could show a panel of 2 dragons fighting. It would look very silly/not as cool having Azmodan or Dehaka arm wrestle a dragon (they are both of comparable size lore wise). It would also be kind of pathetic if all she did was throw undeath file balls at stuff in human form. Hence another dragon was needed for the panel, with the only choice being Alex since the only other dragon, Chromie, would be too small and also out of place.

Her being defeated was so they could balance out Dark Nexus Guldan being Eviscerated by Valeera.
09/24/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Aguy
As for the comic, I think it would have helped if we actually SAW how Drek'thar got deceived by the Raven Lord instead of just being told that it happened, and if we SAW how the battle played out in Alterac instead of just being told "Welp, the Alliance lost."
He was deceived? Everyone knows by now that all the Horde does is want to win and not be corrupted by fel energy. The Raven Lord gave them just that, instead corrupting them with Dark Nexus energy. They have no problem with this since it is not demonic fel energy.

With what is happening with WoW I imagine Sylvanas preparing for battle at Alterac as Warchief of the Horde just to be shoved aside and sent packing by the Raven Lord lol.
09/24/2018 07:07 PMPosted by Aguy
it would be interesting to see how somebody like Alarak reacted to his Dark Nexus doppelganger
He already has reaction quotes for meeting himself, even as an announcer.

Judging by the hero selection portrayed, it seems so far that only "not evil" heroes fight against the Raven Lord. This excludes the likes of Alarak, Azmodan, Arthas and such. Maybe if the Lady of Thorns choose Mephisto, Lord of Hatred, over that noob face-tanking Raynor...
What would could have happened if Alarak meets Belial? Or Valerian meets Varian?
Nothing because Belial and Varian are not in HotS. yet...
09/24/2018 07:59 PMPosted by Azrael
HotS didn't need a story to begin with, and the story they're giving it is painfully generic fantasy schlock. Why bother?
Because part of the story is being told in game and not in a comic. Instead of being told in detail how the battle between the Raven Lord forces and Lady of Thorns forces goes, they give some suggestive panels. The players are then free to role play the battle out in game, which is why there are 4*3 quests involved with this.

This could further be expanded if they made a Brawl mode out of it...
09/24/2018 08:33 PMPosted by SoulFilcher
That's how Blizzard tells the tale of "gutting Garden of Terror", my only hope is that Dragon Shire can be left untouched, but the fact the Dragon Knight appeared like that in the comic leaves me worried.
Why you worried? It fits perfectly with the mechanics of the current map...

One side changed to Raven Lord. Objective functions the same. Raven Lord takes objective it is corrupted dragon. Lady of Thorn side takes dragon it is normal dragon. New announcer VO for each side.
So I thought about the comic again, and I feel I need to better explain my initial post: The reason I saw I don't care about what happens, or the events, and we have no real reason to, will be explained below.

The Raven Lord is every generic big bad evil guy you have ever seen in a fantasy setting. He's evil, he does evil things, he makes people suffer because he's evil, and... that's all there is to him. The entire point of the "story" seems to be to teach Orphea a lesson about "inactivity," by having one of the handful of NPC factions that exist wiped out due to an overpowered cartoon villain.

The issue, here, is that - even ignoring how they don't do anything or matter in-game - we get no time to really know any of them. Blizzard can claim these people matter, that they have their own personalities, histories, and nuances, but we don't see any of this. Every single one of them is painfully undeveloped. They introduce and kill off a faction within the span of ten pages... and then try to tug at your heartstrings, but again, no one has any attachment to them. They're redshirts from Star Trek, only existing so that the story can claim it has a body count.

Nothing is established. Nothing develops in a satisfactory manner (either interestingly or effectively). There's all these other characters from pre-established Blizzard properties and flashy fights, but it comes across more like they're there to remind you that they exist, and it's all flash - flash without substance. It feels less like a story and more like advertising; "her allies' ancient enemy is THE HORDE! Get it?!" "Oh no, the Raven Lord has arrived with sick new skins (now in stores!)" "The Dragon Knight kicked someone! Haha it's just like in the game!"

And then we have that it's all little more than promotion for Orphea. Everything is about Orphea. You want to see your favorite Blizzard characters actually interact with each other? Maybe see Gul'dan try to strike a deal with Diablo, or D.Va try to get to know Tassadar and Artanis without bringing up that they're video game characters in her world? Well, you're getting tons of Orphea instead! We know nothing about Orphea at all, have no attachment to the character, and no reason to care, yet Blizzard insists on focusing the lore on her.

And then there's the "worlds" themselves. Warcraft's Azeroth, Diablo's Sanctuary, StarCraft's Koprulu Sector, Overwatch's Earth, wherever The Lost Vikings come from - these are all places I can believe people living in. They're fleshed out, they feel like actual places where I can say "Yeah, I buy that." HotS' realms don't have this, and if the comics were meant to establish that this was the case, it didn't work.

The comic is a jumbled mess, a blatant marketing ploy, and it's not even written well.
This comic is starting to prove my fears about Heroes of the Storm getting lore.

I kinda liked the idea that something more was going on with the Nexus that we got in a few places before (like Gul'dan's trailer), but I honestly never wanted that actually explored. Some things are better left as mysteries.

All I want Heroes of the Storm to be is a giant toy box where pieces from all the Blizzard franchises are thrown together.

I also vaguely recall Blizzard saying that the realm lords won't be playable because they're demigod-like. That always seemed a bit odd since straight-up godlike characters from the existing Blizzard franchises are either in the running to become playable or already are (like Diablo), but these comics are making it more odd.

I used to assume the Raven Lord didn't really have a form outside of manifesting in the form of a giant raven (in fact, wasn't there even concept art for that?). I had this idea of him being this force of nature, something that felt like it would represent a realm and wouldn't feel like playable material.

But now we're just running down the list and all the realm lords just seem to be completely normal people, no different than any other playable character except they have this realm lord title (which we don't really have much context for). They look like normal people, they have normal families, and they don't even seem to be especially powerful (aside from the Raven Lord).

I don't think the story is terrible or anything, but it's just not what I want in Heroes of the Storm. If this was a new franchise that then, inevitably, ended up in Heroes of the Storm, that would be one thing. I'm reminded of the "Disney meets Final Fantasy (with a new protagonist to bridge them)" draw of Kingdom Hearts that got completely and utterly overtaken by Nomura's original characters and don't want to see that happen again.
He was deceived? Everyone knows by now that all the Horde does is want to win and not be corrupted by fel energy. The Raven Lord gave them just that, instead corrupting them with Dark Nexus energy. They have no problem with this since it is not demonic fel energy.


The Lady Of Thorns says that Drek'thar was deceived:

"In secret, the Raven Lord had manipulated my allies' ancient enemy: the Horde. They unknowingly fought against us in his name."
09/24/2018 09:41 PMPosted by FeralChaos
The Raven Lord is every generic big bad evil guy you have ever seen in a fantasy setting. He's evil, he does evil things, he makes people suffer because he's evil, and... that's all there is to him. The entire point of the "story" seems to be to teach Orphea a lesson about "inactivity," by having one of the handful of NPC factions that exist wiped out due to an overpowered cartoon villain.

It's funny because this completely caught me by surprise. It was obvious in the first comic that he was messing with stuff he shouldn't and it was going to go bad, but I still kinda thought it was the story about a misguided protagonist who was going to make some big mistakes.

I seriously had to go back and look at the other comics when I pulled up this comic and it just took it for granted that the Raven Lord is the most evil thing ever and he acts like he meant it all along (even though it certainly seems like it's one of those twists where he's the prophesied evil that he did this to stop).

It's also just super weird that the first comic started with the Raven Lord observing the different realms as a raven, and then returning home and transforming into a human. That character already exists. He's called Medivh and he's even already playable in Heroes of the Storm. I made enough jokes about the Raven Lord and Medivh before Medivh was playable and the Raven Lord didn't have a canonical form yet. Medivh arguably even had a similar character arc. I'm not really being sold on these new characters being special.

Though again, I really wouldn't want them to be.
09/24/2018 09:41 PMPosted by FeralChaos
And then we have that it's all little more than promotion for Orphea. Everything is about Orphea. You want to see your favorite Blizzard characters actually interact with each other? Maybe see Gul'dan try to strike a deal with Diablo, or D.Va try to get to know Tassadar and Artanis without bringing up that they're video game characters in her world? Well, you're getting tons of Orphea instead! We know nothing about Orphea at all, have no attachment to the character, and no reason to care, yet Blizzard insists on focusing the lore on her.

Those sort of interactions are what a Heroes of the Storm comic should be. It's the reason the game even exists, and it's why most of us were drawn to it instead of another similar game. They should be fun what-ifs with the characters we already love.

A strong new character is cool and all, but they should exist somewhere else before they end up in Heroes of the Storm like everyone else.
09/24/2018 09:41 PMPosted by FeralChaos
The Raven Lord is every generic big bad evil guy you have ever seen in a fantasy setting. He's evil, he does evil things, he makes people suffer because he's evil, and... that's all there is to him. The entire point of the "story" seems to be to teach Orphea a lesson about "inactivity," by having one of the handful of NPC factions that exist wiped out due to an overpowered cartoon villain.
And also to give lore to the region. The Dragon Knight statue is the Lady of Thorn's husband, while the 2 alters are the kids.
09/24/2018 09:41 PMPosted by FeralChaos
And then we have that it's all little more than promotion for Orphea. Everything is about Orphea. You want to see your favorite Blizzard characters actually interact with each other? Maybe see Gul'dan try to strike a deal with Diablo, or D.Va try to get to know Tassadar and Artanis without bringing up that they're video game characters in her world? Well, you're getting tons of Orphea instead! We know nothing about Orphea at all, have no attachment to the character, and no reason to care, yet Blizzard insists on focusing the lore on her.
If you want to see them interact with each other, play the game... Blizzard has spent a great effort making unique interactions between many of the characters. For example Mephisto will make fun of various heroes he kills, as well as speak positively about Alarak and Whitemane.
09/24/2018 09:42 PMPosted by Jokubas
I also vaguely recall Blizzard saying that the realm lords won't be playable because they're demigod-like. That always seemed a bit odd since straight-up godlike characters from the existing Blizzard franchises are either in the running to become playable or already are (like Diablo), but these comics are making it more odd.
They are godlike in their own domains, but not in the Nexus. Nexus lords can summon them at will, as well as unsummon them if under their control. They are basically gods of the Nexus, but not outside the Nexus like how some beings are gods outside the Nexus but not in the Nexus.
But now we're just running down the list and all the realm lords just seem to be completely normal people, no different than any other playable character except they have this realm lord title (which we don't really have much context for). They look like normal people, they have normal families, and they don't even seem to be especially powerful.
In comic 2 it is revealed that the Lady of Thorns is severely weakened due to a stoning curse. As such she was becoming increasingly more mortal. That said she was still powerful enough at the time to buff the allied commander to an equal level as the Raven Lord.
09/24/2018 09:46 PMPosted by Aguy
The Lady Of Thorns says that Drek'thar was deceived:"In secret, the Raven Lord had manipulated my allies' ancient enemy: the Horde. They unknowingly fought against us in his name."
Unknowingly is not unwillingly... After all the Raven Lord cannot be any worse than civilian murdering Sylvanas, the Horde Warchief, is. They might have willingly sided with him if they had known.

Still cannot deny knowing about him. It explains why the alliance commander makes reference to the Raven Lord while the Horde one does not make any such references.
09/24/2018 09:41 PMPosted by FeralChaos
Nothing is established. Nothing develops in a satisfactory manner (either interestingly or effectively). There's all these other characters from pre-established Blizzard properties and flashy fights, but it comes across more like they're there to remind you that they exist, and it's all flash - flash without substance. It feels less like a story and more like advertising; "her allies' ancient enemy is THE HORDE! Get it?!" "Oh no, the Raven Lord has arrived with sick new skins (now in stores!)" "The Dragon Knight kicked someone! Haha it's just like in the game!"

You know, when you put it that way, it does kinda remind me of an old toy commercial.

"Oh no, the Joker is at it again!"

"Not this time, I've got Deluxe Deckard Cain with missile launching action!"

Unfortunately, I think I'd almost prefer if they were just doing that. It could be kinda fun to do these little commercials that could reference all sorts of things just like the rest of the game (or the arcade machines in Overwatch).

It might sound like I'm overreacting right now, but there's a clear investment here on Blizzard's part. Right now it's not really an issue, but you don't start working on something like this, or establish stakes this high, if you don't plan on growing this story. That concerns me because the quality of the story isn't what's important to me here, it's the nature of the story.
09/24/2018 09:41 PMPosted by FeralChaos

And then we have that it's all little more than promotion for Orphea. Everything is about Orphea. You want to see your favorite Blizzard characters actually interact with each other? Maybe see Gul'dan try to strike a deal with Diablo, or D.Va try to get to know Tassadar and Artanis without bringing up that they're video game characters in her world? Well, you're getting tons of Orphea instead! We know nothing about Orphea at all, have no attachment to the character, and no reason to care, yet Blizzard insists on focusing the lore on her.

[/quote]

10 times this. They lose their course long time ago. Instead of amazing crossover they pushing terrible wannabe originals. Why? Did anyone came to HotS for that?
In this comic, overpowered bad guy character wins all the battles again effortlessly and conquers new realms.

I suppose in the next comic he’s just going to conquer all the remaining realms and give us all cool, neon paint jobs.
When you like something you don't talk.

I don't understand you are replying with paragraphs for something you don't like.
09/24/2018 11:11 PMPosted by Ai
When you like something you don't talk.

I don't understand you are replying with paragraphs for something you don't like.

Cause many of us are fans of this game and dont like when its slowly moving in to oblivion and we want to change that with our opinion voiced at least, huh?

Or "eat what you got", aye?

09/24/2018 08:33 PMPosted by SoulFilcher
That's how Blizzard tells the tale of "gutting Garden of Terror", my only hope is that Dragon Shire can be left untouched, but the fact the Dragon Knight appeared like that in the comic leaves me worried.
Why you worried? It fits perfectly with the mechanics of the current map...

One side changed to Raven Lord. Objective functions the same. Raven Lord takes objective it is corrupted dragon. Lady of Thorn side takes dragon it is normal dragon. New announcer VO for each side.


I don't expect them to touch a map just to change visuals and announcer for one side. Look at the GoT changes, I don't want any of that to happen to Dragon Shire as it is my favored map. If anything happens to it I could even stop playing, because nothing will be safe from their crazy changes.
The realm lords might be important to the story in the nexus, they might be driving the plot, but the reason anyone wanted lore for this game in the first place was to see iconic characters from different blizzard universes interacting, and we have gotten none of that.

I don't care about the lady of thorns and her children, sorry I just don't.
I'm so freaking tired of seeing Paladins being just death material (Uther dies again because lol that's what he does).

Plus once again it's the bad guys who win, plus the unneeded focus on Orphea that is a none carring a strange statue and stinks of "child of the prophecy" vibes.

Still no positive energy to be found in the Nexus... when the Dark Nexus and the portals had appeared ppl envisioned the comic exact scene of the Lady of Thorns mourning as she saw that the Dark Generals of the Ravenlord would just squash them all and then have Imperius/the High Heavens come in help in order to cleans the real from corruption.... BUT NOPE! LETS GIVE THIS UNWANTED CHILD MORE FOCUS!

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum