Fix for Eviscerate

General Discussion
09/24/2018 05:31 PMPosted by DrSuperGood
So you want it to deal 1,676 damage at level 20 (not factoring -20 armor from ambush) for an ability that can be used twice in under 10 seconds?! Why not just give her an instant win button...
That button belongs to mephisto.
09/25/2018 12:07 AMPosted by Rhasz
I was talking about untalented
Why bother talking about untalented. Most of the game she will be above level 10 so have access to all required elements to deal the above described combo. All it needs is level 7 in fact...
09/25/2018 12:07 AMPosted by Rhasz
If we want to talk about talented abilities then Thunderclap does more damage than 3 point Eviscerate if it hits a single target, and that is from a tank.
It has a lot longer cooldown (8 seconds per cast as opposed to 2.5-3 seconds of Eviscerate. Sure he can rewind it at level 20, but that has a huge CD and is a level 20. To deal the damage it needs level 13 as opposed to just 7. It also requires hitting just a single target, Eviscerate can be used when surrounded by however many targets and still does full damage. Lastly it forms a large chunk of Muradin's damage in that situation, where as most of Valeera's comes from Sinister Strike, so she still does a ton more DPS then Muradin in total.

The two abilites cannot be compared.
09/25/2018 12:07 AMPosted by Rhasz
So an ability of a tank does more damage than the finisher of an assassin, also, it comes with a slow. Yes Eviscerate needs more damage.
It is not a true finisher. As mentioned above, most of her damage is from Sinister Strike. If one goes auto attack (eg against mage resistant comp) then most of her damage is from the auto attacks after Eviscerate. The point of Eviscerate is to deal extra damage once at 3 stacks, since it can be mixed in-between her auto attacks and other abilities without causing them lower effective use rate.
09/25/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Rhasz
Since KTZ can blow up a group of ppl at range with all sorts of slows and cc.
He can also be completely denied all damage if he misses, eg due to a reflexive unstoppable cast.
09/25/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Rhasz
Because currently the ranged characters do have this kind of dmg.
No most of them do not. A select few exceptions might be able to burst at such rate but that usually comes at a huge cost. Jaina is probably the only non-melee mage hero with a reliable combo of similar damage, but with a long cooldown due to water elemental and extra ability. Zuljin with axe throw build can get close with auto attacks very late game and only if he lands his skill shot axe and is attacking at near minimum life percentage so can die very easilly. Li Ming can give instantaneous burst numbers with low cooldown, but average DPS over 5 seconds is likely a lot lower unless he trait is proced. Kel Thuzard Death and Decay can do a lot more damage and I will not deny that, but requires level 20 for shade and that all Death and Decay hits land in a tight space with the enemy immobilised or heavilly slowed as no enemy would be stupid enough to willingly stand in 3-4 pools. Mages like Azmodan and Kael do single target numbers nowhere near, instead relying on hitting multiple targets for good damage numbers. Nazeebo is worth a mention as he can deal comparable if not better single target damage if one goes spider build and lands the full combo, wall and garg included, on the target however this has considerable cooldown unlike the 10 seconds of Valeera.

In short? Do not even bother trying to compare her to ranged heroes. They do some stuff better than her but she does others better than them.
09/25/2018 12:37 AMPosted by Rhasz
Melee assassins should be able to blow up a SINGLE target since it is a SINGLE target at MELEE range.
She does. Very few heroes can last more than 5 seconds in range of her... surviving 5k damage is above most level 20 health values outside of very tanky warriors or heavy armor/damage reduction usage. With the topic creators suggestion one is looking at a damage close to 7-8k, which is beyond ludicrous as no hero even vaguely compares and basically an instant win button.

So why do so few people pick Valeera? Well why would anyone pick her if they can pick Zeratul? Zeratul sacrifices single target burst for far better AoE damage. Zeratul has infinitely better escape and engage options including a ranged damage ability. Late game Zeratul even has fantastic life sustain unlike Valeera who has no healing talents at all. Zeratul can set up team fight combos far better than Valeera with void prison. At level 20 without Void Prison he can burst for around 2k damage near instantly to everyone around him and an extra 1k to a single target. He even has automatic cloaking, allowing him to get invisible again much faster than Valeera and even have mount speed while cloaked without sacrificing a talent.

The only two things that Valeera does better than Zeratul are single target damage and 8 second CC.
09/24/2018 04:39 PMPosted by Rhasz
Current:
1 combo point 85
2 combo point 170
3 combo point 255

Fix:
1 combo point 255
2 combo point 510
3 combo point 765


REALLY?? COMMON MAN PUMP THOSE NUMBERS UP!
here let me help:
Fixed fix:
1 combo point 1000
2 combo point 3000
3 combo point
09/25/2018 12:37 AMPosted by Rhasz
09/24/2018 06:52 PMPosted by TAB
...so you want an assassin with a stun and a silence to take half of an assassin's health with one ability? That is not even an hot and is very easy too stack.


Yes, because that is what a MELEE ASSASSIN is supposed to do.

Since meanwhile mages do the same at range AND In AOE.

Melee assassins should be able to blow up a SINGLE target since it is a SINGLE target at MELEE range.

Mages blow up MULTIPLE ppl at RANGE.

Also, it is stun or silence, can't use both at same time since it takes 8 sec to go back to stealth.
which mage can instantly take half of an assassin's health with one ability that is point and click....that is not an ult. Even chromie can t do that any more. A meal fully stack flame strike does not do it, jainas q w or e does not, even if they are chilled.( unless you stand for all 3 waves) so which mage can do this at range?
09/24/2018 06:43 PMPosted by Ror
suggest any other way to make valeera relevant lol


Eviscerate getting a talent that applies a root/slow would be cool
09/24/2018 06:43 PMPosted by Ror
suggest any other way to make valeera relevant lol

bring back real stealth
I played against OP as Dva last night. How was Q build?
09/25/2018 02:08 PMPosted by robertsonb
09/24/2018 06:43 PMPosted by Ror
suggest any other way to make valeera relevant lol


Eviscerate getting a talent that applies a root/slow would be cool


That would actually be neat but would have to be off 3 point evis only or it might be too strong.

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