Which heroes are bad first/early picks?

General Discussion
I'm still learning the game, and I get that some heroes are really bad to pick early as they are easy to counter. At what point in draft is it okay to pick these heroes deemed "bad first picks".

Like if the enemy team banned Leoric and Tychus, and first picked Auriel, can I go ahead and first pick Malthael since they are prob going for Cho'Gall? Or is that bad?

Which heroes are bad early picks? I can only name a few.. Cho'Gall, Butcher, Hammer, Stealthies, and maybe melee assassins like Illidan and Malthael (unsure).
Personally, I do not like when the first chosen hero is support.
At the beginning, you should choose a strong hero on a given map, or a universal.
Several supports are fairly easy to counter, so should not be picked until you see how the other team is drafting. For example, Alexstrasza can be countered with displacement, especially heroes like Junkrat, and teams that can get steady poke damage on her directly. One of the reasons supports like Deckard at higher ranks and Li Li at lower ones are so popular is that they do not have a lot of counter play.
I don't pick niche picks unless I'm in the fourth or fifth pick. Illidan and Malth are bad first picks unless you have a specific team. If you fear a ChoGall and your first or second pick, just grab Anubarak.
Draft.....meta dps......tank ......heals.....random goof.
Ilidan = Defeat
First pick gets countered the most. Either pick heroes that can't be countered too hard or heroes where it doesn't really matter so much. On the other hand, last pick is countered the least so there you can really shine.
So if you want your last pick to be really strong then you might already have a tank/support in your team that your last pick has more freedom to chose a hero.

I would think about the need of waveclear/pushing power and how dive heavy or how vulnerable to dive the teams are. If your team's first 3 picks are all ranged/backline heroes then you offer the enemy team to go for a crazy dive combo.
Tassadar. When I was crazy about him and angry that people don't like him in team, I picked him to prove that I'm good on him. But then... After some matches vs my counterpicks I got that He is good on last pick ONLY. First pick = defeat. Midpick = so so.
Although there’s a ton of context with everything, the easiest first pick is your best tank/bruiser (offlane) for the map.

Tanks and bruisers aren’t really countered, and doesn’t reveal your draft. I prefer bruisers because there’s only a few that are optimal, like Sonya or Dehaka. There is usually plenty of good tanks available later in the draft.

Edit: and as others have said, picking a support or counterable assassin is usually a bad idea.
Healer/tank should never be first pick they should be picked third to last along with healers unless it's a hard counter to the other teams pick.
Assuming you're confident and good with a hero and it fits the map you should go ahead and pick it under most circumstances imo. Let's say it's Tomb and you happen to be a good Arthas and not so good at Diablo or Stitches but they happen to be open I'd rather advice you to pick Arthas in such a scenario despite both of the others being better than Arthas on Tomb specifically.

This can be applicable to all maps and heroes that are at least viable in the meta. Examples of heroes that aren't and shouldn't be first picked without a strategy is Gazlowe, Rexxar, Ragnaros and Morales.

Universal good first picks are just heroes that happens to be overtuned or versatile enough to fit regardless what your team ends up picking. Examples of such would be Deckard, Muradin, Azmodan and Jaina.
09/13/2018 05:48 AMPosted by DrLogan
Tassadar. When I was crazy about him and angry that people don't like him in team, I picked him to prove that I'm good on him. But then... After some matches vs my counterpicks I got that He is good on last pick ONLY. First pick = defeat. Midpick = so so.


What heroes do you mean with "vs my counterpicks"?
For first pick, just try to avoid the heroes who have way too many counters. Any hero who doesn't have plenty of counters or isn't easily countered. You could also look at the map to narrow down your choices for best hero use. You also want to keep in mind that your first pick will likely be countered, and be prepared for that.
Also note, this is the reason banning counter heroes are important. The player banning must try to make it easier for your team as possible, and ban the heroes who cause the most trouble for your team.
Heroes that rely on specific mechanics to work, are generally not very good first picks.
Although this may not happen all the time of course, it is something I notice.

For example, Nova is considered a bad pick because she relies on single target burst damage.
A self sustain team is therefore strong vs her damage, as she will not be able to finish anyone off.

Yrel is also not a very great first pick, because she relies on wind-up time.
Having 2 heroes with stuns is already enough to shut down most of her abilities.

Abathur is in my experience also not very great.
Though he is good with freezing lanes (not really for pushing), drafting global laners (Dehaka / Falstad) is already sufficient to limit Abathur's viability.

Generally most first picks can get easily countered, but some heroes are simply so all-round that a specific counter does not really exist.
Take Varian or Sonya for example.

Just my 2 cents on the topic.
09/13/2018 04:05 AMPosted by Sk3wlbus
I'm still learning the game, and I get that some heroes are really bad to pick early as they are easy to counter. At what point in draft is it okay to pick these heroes deemed "bad first picks".

Like if the enemy team banned Leoric and Tychus, and first picked Auriel, can I go ahead and first pick Malthael since they are prob going for Cho'Gall? Or is that bad?

Which heroes are bad early picks? I can only name a few.. Cho'Gall, Butcher, Hammer, Stealthies, and maybe melee assassins like Illidan and Malthael (unsure).


This generally just comes down to game knowledge.

Ideally you want to first pick a strong generalist in terms of little to no weaknesses but doesn't excel at anything either. Heroes like ETC and muradin come to mind along with ranged assassins that don't require too much babysitting.

Supports are often easily countered or have specific niches so you want to pick those next to or last.

You want to draft tanks that counter or mitigate a large portion of the enemy team's primary damage or open up your team to more damage. If the enemy team is running melee assassins, garrosh isn't a bad idea to displace them/bully them in close proximity. If the opposing team is using physical attackers, jojo for ranged attackers or arthas for melee attackers are ideal.

If they're banning tank shredders, it isn't a bad assumption they're going to pick beefy characters, malth also covers the solo lane in order to soak EXP in that regard. The only times that malth is a bad pick is when they use a real angel battery like valla, in which the risk verses reward of picking malth isn't great since your first assumption is that they're picking chogall. While it is important to keep track of who they ban it's important to note heroes they synergize most with on whom they pick.

If you really think they're gonna pick chogall you can value ban cho or gall and then they can't pick them.
chen has to be the worst first pick imho :(

pick him and you'll see how blizzard screwed him over (prepare to get stunlocked into oblivion)
09/13/2018 07:18 AMPosted by Creeper
09/13/2018 05:48 AMPosted by DrLogan
Tassadar. When I was crazy about him and angry that people don't like him in team, I picked him to prove that I'm good on him. But then... After some matches vs my counterpicks I got that He is good on last pick ONLY. First pick = defeat. Midpick = so so.


What heroes do you mean with "vs my counterpicks"?

Alarak, Zagara, Kael'Tuzad, Hammer, Varian and heroes with silence.
Like if the enemy team banned Leoric and Tychus, and first picked Auriel, can I go ahead and first pick Malthael since they are prob going for Cho'Gall? Or is that bad?

Which heroes are bad early picks? I can only name a few.. Cho'Gall, Butcher, Hammer, Stealthies, and maybe melee assassins like Illidan and Malthael (unsure).[/quote]

AA (Auto Attack) heroes are bad 1st picks.

In general, you want your first pick to be a map specific hero that gives you an advantage on the map you're playing. Since if you don't pick it the enemy will. Or a generally strong hero that has a high pick rate and impact on the game.

Butcher is usually a bad pick in any position.

Hammer is a bad 1st pick.

Divers (Tracer, Genji) are bad first picks as well. Becaue then you'll have to deal with a Taunt Varian, malfurion etc.
I think, right now, the following heroes are some of the few you’d want to first pick:

Diablo
Deckard Cain
Muradin
Genji
Yrel

All of those are pretty safe, strong picks.

This meta favors the frontline a lot more than others have, but a good draft is determined by how safely one can pull off the excecution of said draft over the enemy team with theirs, generally. This game is a lot about punishing mistakes, so the more forgiving your comp is, the better. In the examples above, Diablo can come to be nearly unkillable, Deckard has so much CC and healing, Muradin has Dwarf Toss and Second Wind, Genji is Genji, and Yrel is the sustain and disruption queen. These are all heroes that are both safe and force mistakes, because of the sheer threat they pose at any given time.

Their kits are inherently strong, and leave little room for weaknesses. However, one glaring weakness they all have is waveclear. They can kill things, but not minions. Though you should be taking these first, you also should be telling your team to pick a complementing hero that can kill minions, like Gul’dan, Jaina, KT, Junkrat, Dehaka, Blaze, etc..
Early picks to avoid are anything that have an easy hard counter.

Right now the global meta is real, so picking abathur when mephisto isn't banned is a bad idea.

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