What's the point of Hero League if we can queue solo for Team League now?

General Discussion
Why have two leagues? Isn't that just dividing the player base and doubling wait times?
Remove it.

The game is to spread out for its low pop. And it's a team game in the first place.
It's good to have a mode where only solo players get matched together. It would allow much closer matchmaking in regard of MMR.
Teams can play TL even the members have very different MMR. As a solo player it would probably make more sense to play HL. Why would a solo player want to play with and against other premade teams? Maybe better teamwork? Mabye being the scapegoat ^^
I would like to see them do what Hearthstone has, which is two primary modes:
1) Unranked, which is a mix of Quickmatch and Unranked
2) Ranked, which is a mix of Solo and Team

That basically reduces 4 game modes to 2, which would help queue time and compositions.

How do you combine them exactly? I don't think it really matters. Could make unranked have no bans and significantly reduced queue times, and then make ranked just what the new Team Ranked is going to be (which allows queuing of all quantities). I suppose you could come up with other ways to do it as well.
I see advantages and disadvantages to this.

Advantage is if you work togeather with the team there is a chance you will get invited.

Disadvantag is you do one wrong move then you do have some false reports.
09/25/2018 05:52 AMPosted by Creeper
It's good to have a mode where only solo players get matched together. It would allow much closer matchmaking in regard of MMR.
Teams can play TL even the members have very different MMR. As a solo player it would probably make more sense to play HL. Why would a solo player want to play with and against other premade teams? Maybe better teamwork? Mabye being the scapegoat ^^


OK, then why have solo queue on TL if it's only negatives? Everyone would eventually stick to HL.
I would predict this change to essentially be what Flex Queue is for League (or was idk if it's still in the game).

Basically they removed the option to create teams and pushed everyone into a "Dynamic queue". This failed and I can't remember exactly why but people wanted a way to team up with friends in ranked. Solo queue (or Hero League) could only be queued as 2 players at most but primarily was just used by Solo players and even had restrictions in high level play to prevent duos.

Flex queue was introduced to allow any sizes of party members to play a ranked gamemode without the restrictions. This did make more players play ranked because it wasn't as intimidating as SoloQ for many, but the quality in play was very different in all levels of play.

I don't think this is a bad thing for Team League though. It has such a disastrous long queuetime for parties of 2 and frequently you just get matched with or against the same players you just played with the game prior. If anything this will probably do just what Flex Queue did - Encourage more players to try out a ranked environment that is more relaxed than Hero League.
I remember the time back in 2015 when everyone was crying for solo queue only ;)
It's hard to see TL get that popular for solo players. Most solos hated even duo ques when HL had them let alone when you could actually group with more people. The solos will always be at disadvantage in games like those. The real question is why have both TL and UD when they are both essentially the same, might as well merge one to another.
Good question, what IS the point of Hero League?

Well, if you like watching progress bars while being frustrated by the inability of your teammates in this team game do everything other than work together to win a game that requires planning, strategy, knowledge of the arena, and synergy between those teammates, Hero League is there there for you.

I hope that clears up he confusion.

Cheers!

:D
09/25/2018 05:59 AMPosted by RayRay
I would like to see them do what Hearthstone has, which is two primary modes:
1) Unranked, which is a mix of Quickmatch and Unranked
2) Ranked, which is a mix of Solo and Team

That basically reduces 4 game modes to 2, which would help queue time and compositions.

How do you combine them exactly? I don't think it really matters. Could make unranked have no bans and significantly reduced queue times, and then make ranked just what the new Team Ranked is going to be (which allows queuing of all quantities). I suppose you could come up with other ways to do it as well.


you really cant combine them because they provide intrinsically different values. the best you could do is just relabel the in game menu to reflect that, the modes would still exist as the are now though. the thing is that some ppl just have no interest in draft modes at all. all they want to do is play what they pick. while others want the organization of draft play.

still though cleaning up the interface wouldnt be necessarily bad instead of just listing them all at the top.

think of your options like AI where you have a box that gives you options for the different game modes. Ranked is obviously 'auto selected' as we all know even if it does display the two different options due to party number.

i think they could do something like this:
AI
    >Co-op
    >AI Team
    >Training


Unranked
    >Quick Match
    >Brawl
    >Draft Pick


Ranked
    >Solo
    >Team
09/25/2018 05:52 AMPosted by Creeper
Why would a solo player want to play with and against other premade teams?


Probably solo folks will do this just to get the rewards, why not.
09/25/2018 06:44 AMPosted by Morogoth
09/25/2018 05:59 AMPosted by RayRay
I would like to see them do what Hearthstone has, which is two primary modes:
1) Unranked, which is a mix of Quickmatch and Unranked
2) Ranked, which is a mix of Solo and Team

That basically reduces 4 game modes to 2, which would help queue time and compositions.

How do you combine them exactly? I don't think it really matters. Could make unranked have no bans and significantly reduced queue times, and then make ranked just what the new Team Ranked is going to be (which allows queuing of all quantities). I suppose you could come up with other ways to do it as well.


you really cant combine them because they provide intrinsically different values. the best you could do is just relabel the in game menu to reflect that, the modes would still exist as the are now though. the thing is that some ppl just have no interest in draft modes at all. all they want to do is play what they pick. while others want the organization of draft play.

still though cleaning up the interface wouldnt be necessarily bad instead of just listing them all at the top.

think of your options like AI where you have a box that gives you options for the different game modes. Ranked is obviously 'auto selected' as we all know even if it does display the two different options due to party number.

i think they could do something like this:
AI
    >Co-op
    >AI Team
    >Training


Unranked
    >Quick Match
    >Brawl
    >Draft Pick


Ranked
    >Solo
    >Team

I get what you are saying, but that doesn't solve the "multiple buckets" issue of having tons of different people in different game modes. If you were able to take the vast majority of the player base and put them into two queue categories, this would fix the population issue significantly. I'm literally talking about two queues for everything that isn't AI/custom/brawl.
Why would a solo player want to play with and against other premade teams?


Playing on a team where you can be reasonably assured that those on the team are communicating and have an agreed upon plan ahead of time. Sounds like what a TEAM game is suppose to be.

Why wouldn't you?
I think the question really is: can you get matched with other 4 solo players or you can only be matched with a group of 4 man? (or 2 + 2, 3 + 1)

If you can only be matched with 4 man and not other solo players, then I see the point on enabling solo queue on TL.
The reward isn't worth getting your account banned. Even if you only play ten games you are risking being scapegoated every loss so up to 40 reports. It's just too big of a risk with their report system failure still in place.
It was to help TL que times and to help solos find groups/teams.

Groups of 2 are more common for TL but wqit times are silly. Now it can match 2 groups of 2 and 1 solo player more quickly. Or sometimes youd have a group of 4 unable to find a 5th forcing someone to leave so you can que.

Quing with any size, in theory, should have a respectable wait time. As long as the matchmaker can match 1 player accordingly in TL where any distance in rank can team up without ruining the experience for the team that needs 1 it should be fine.
09/25/2018 05:41 AMPosted by TheAlterMind
Why have two leagues? Isn't that just dividing the player base and doubling wait times?


League of legends and dota 2 let you solo in team queue.
It improves Q times and lets people find groups to Q with Similar mmr
You are not just choosing "what setups (duo, 3, 4) do you get paired with" but you are also choosing "what setups do you get paired against"

I personally think TL will be more challenging for the 100% Solo players

Have you played any sport (or group activity) where you are the one joining or filling a spot? you have to probably work a bit harder than anyone else in the match as you are adapting to your own team in order to play against another "coordinated" team... I personally find that challenging :P

In HL everyone is in the same position... but TL now will be "harder" for Solos - to that, you can add the "scapegoat" situation that def will happen....

Would it work? I don't know...
Would it help? Probably yes regarding game population and queue times...
would I try? Hell yeah !! Bring it on !!
So you don't get spam reported by a group of baddies(guess who the party is going to blame after a loss). Or flat out ignored by their garbage healer who only heals his buddies. Or walked on in team fights because they only team fight with their buddies. Honestly I can think of many reasons why I would not want to play with a party and it all has to do with human behavior and herd mentality. Obviously an ideal party is very strong, but yeah....

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