How Garden of Terror should have been reworked

General Discussion
Whichever team gets 100 seeds first gets the Terror. After Each Cycle you go to back to 0 seeds. Yes, they would have to slightly change the seed numbers so there wouldn't be the 90/90 ties anymore. Maybe just have the "Boss" give 10 more seeds.

This would be a much healthier objective. What made the old map so toxic was one Terror would death push top and the other would death push bot. Or they would just stalemate in mid and nothing would get done.

This way it's important to quickly get to the objective every single time. Also, one team can't get the oppressive "Double Terror" if they get lots of seeds.
I like how you talk about WHY you propose these changes, unlike Blizzard who just says “It’s the least popular, so now it’s Alterac Pass.” I mean, technically there’s always going to be a least popular map. In a few months are they going to gut another map?
I dont think that would solve the problem.

You would effectively make sure that one team would constantly crush the other. Resetting back to zero would result in the stronger team that keeps getting it to do just that.... keep getting it.

Where with the old model, you could be super behind but finally build up enough seeds and with 1 terror push to the core and win even by being several levels and forts/keeps behind.

The ONLY reason it was changed was HotS team stated it was 'the least favorite' by community feedback. Well, the community's feedback now says a vastly different story. Real reason was it was good in comp, thats it. For everyone else, it was fine.
09/27/2018 11:03 AMPosted by joshvector
I like how you talk about WHY you propose these changes, unlike Blizzard who just says “It’s the least popular, so now it’s Alterac Pass.” I mean, technically there’s always going to be a least popular map. In a few months are they going to gut another map?


It's Cursed Hollow/Alterac Pass/TOTSQ, which Alterac was derivative of. I miss the old map, this no longer has unique mechanics or strategy, no skill or the fun in piloting the Terror.

It's just another map that wants to push the tired fixed tribute to five man brawl over and the AI curse, I mean terror.
09/27/2018 11:03 AMPosted by joshvector
I like how you talk about WHY you propose these changes, unlike Blizzard who just says “It’s the least popular, so now it’s Alterac Pass.” I mean, technically there’s always going to be a least popular map. In a few months are they going to gut another map?

Im betting dragon shire and volskaya
They literally could have just reduced the amount of damage the terror does, or reduce the amount of time its structure disable remains active, and changed nothing else.

If their goal was to extend the laning phases, all they had to do was make it harder for the terror to wreck everything. That's literally all they had to do.

Who's the "stable genius" who thought copying Alterac Pass was a good idea, and who's the dain bramaged supervisor who approved it?
Has merit, the problem has always been having Terror VS Terror scenarios. Both teams shouldn't have one at the same time.
09/27/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Jackal
The ONLY reason it was changed was HotS team stated it was 'the least favorite' by community feedback.
And here I thought Haunted Mines was the least favorite.
09/27/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Vanaheim
09/27/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Jackal
The ONLY reason it was changed was HotS team stated it was 'the least favorite' by community feedback.
And here I thought Haunted Mines was the least favorite.


But they already did a HM rework, so how could it possibly be the least favorite?!?

:p
GoT was never my least favorite, just the least exciting; I was bored to the point of dozing off in GoT games. I LOATHE BHB with all my being though.

The only times I ever had fun on that map was when her Owl build was strong in QM :P
09/27/2018 11:40 AMPosted by mynd
Has merit, the problem has always been having Terror VS Terror scenarios. Both teams shouldn't have one at the same time.


True

Another idea is still have the carryover in seeds each phase but you need to wait until the opponents terror has expired.

That would be kinda fun knowing you can retaliate with a terror once your enemies terror has died.
09/27/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Jackal
I dont think that would solve the problem.

You would effectively make sure that one team would constantly crush the other. Resetting back to zero would result in the stronger team that keeps getting it to do just that.... keep getting it.


You could make the same argument with any map though. You could say "The stronger team keeps getting the punisher on Infernal Shrines" Or "The stronger team keeps getting the Immortal on BoE" or "The stronger team always get the tribute on Cursed Hollow."

There was a suggestion by @mynd that only one terror should be active at a time. Still have the carryover but you have to wait your "turn" Not mad at that idea either.
09/27/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Vanaheim
They literally could have just reduced the amount of damage the terror does, or reduce the amount of time its structure disable remains active, and changed nothing else.

If their goal was to extend the laning phases, all they had to do was make it harder for the terror to wreck everything. That's literally all they had to do.

Who's the "stable genius" who thought copying Alterac Pass was a good idea, and who's the dain bramaged supervisor who approved it?


That decision was probably approved at 4:58 lol
Come to think of it, before the changes and announcements about GoT. I haven't heard people prasing or pleaing to keep that map into the rotation up until now. In fact I haven't met anyone who said, "GoT is my favorite map," and had "it's a murky map" instead.
09/27/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Vanaheim
They literally could have just reduced the amount of damage the terror does, or reduce the amount of time its structure disable remains active, and changed nothing else.


Or even just remove the ludicrous sprint from the Terror so people could actually make a stand and defend it, instead of constantly getting dragged into the fun-draining 'Chase the Terror' minigame.

Objectives are supposed to be the Big Juggernaut coming for your forts, not a random split pusher that can runs away all the time.

Come to think of it, before the changes and announcements about GoT. I haven't heard people prasing or pleaing to keep that map into the rotation up until now. In fact I haven't met anyone who said, "GoT is my favorite map," and had "it's a murky map" instead.


Oh, it definitely wasn't a good map before the rework. It was among the worst in the game, and it had a ton of problems. But they didn't address any of those problems, they just removed the map entirely and replaced it with another Alterac. That is the problem I have with this rework.

The decision to update or rework Garden was fine, it's just the way they reworked it that irks people. (me, at least).

It's as if they'd rework a Hero by replacing all its basic abilities with completely different ones. Even if the new version technically ends up stronger, the problem is that it's just not the same Hero anymore.
09/27/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Vanaheim
09/27/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Jackal
The ONLY reason it was changed was HotS team stated it was 'the least favorite' by community feedback.
And here I thought Haunted Mines was the least favorite.


It realistically is. But according to Blizzard's 'community feedback' Garden was.... odd we have no supporting evidence for that but we have massive PTR complaints, post release complaints, and a massive dislike to like ratio on their channel.

But what do you really expect from a team that released that Vulture mount promo that everyone kept demanding and they do it a year into the release and if you were a vet you already recommended the game to all your friends so the only option was make 4 smurf accounts and grind to lvl 10 on each of them.... yea someone remind me again how the HotS team gives a !@#$ about their community?
09/27/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Akira
09/27/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Jackal
I dont think that would solve the problem.

You would effectively make sure that one team would constantly crush the other. Resetting back to zero would result in the stronger team that keeps getting it to do just that.... keep getting it.


You could make the same argument with any map though. You could say "The stronger team keeps getting the punisher on Infernal Shrines" Or "The stronger team keeps getting the Immortal on BoE" or "The stronger team always get the tribute on Cursed Hollow."

There was a suggestion by @mynd that only one terror should be active at a time. Still have the carryover but you have to wait your "turn" Not mad at that idea either.


No, not even close. Punisher pushes both teams to ONE objective. Where as GoT you could burst down all 4 of the small camps instantly and grab almost all the seeds you need. It was a fight to who can position better without being too exposed. As for BoE, both objectives are RIGHT there there is almost no distance between them or obstructions. On GoT the objectives were divided with 2 main objectives which mean if you were the stronger team a 1v1 fight would vastly favor the higher team. It was vastly diverse because you had to them figure out move as one or split where as the stronger team usually just took their chances and were all spread out.

Now if you took away the seeds and had them reset every match, explain to me how the weaker team would be able to get more seeds? They wouldn't.

Half the time people on these forums blurt out suggestions and never once stop to REALLY think about it.

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