Everything that is wrong with HoTS in 10 sec

General Discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPjksitGwH8

I'm not the Raynor, stop saying that.
so close, only 40 seconds longer and you'd have killed him
What is wrong with HotS is that players who play Raynor believe they are invincible and OP and so decide to melee tough bruisers with a hero designed to be above average range.

Zeratul could have done exactly the same thing Muradin did. Diablo as well by double ramming Raynor against the walls. Jaina probably as well since she has ludicrous burst damage. Even Valeera could have, if Raynor was not fast enough at hitting her with penetrating rounds. Greymane and Nova could have burst him down. Yeh Raynor can die easily.

That Muradin build is specifically designed for 1v1. Thunder clap only does decent damage when used 1v1, with even a single other hero turning its damage to trash. He also used rewind, a 60 second CD level 20 talent which effecitvly is another ultimate. If the enemy Muradin goes that build, you do not want to go into a 1v1 with him or that will happen.
The amount of people that play raynor like he has a melee weapon is astonishing.
Quite funny, here's what I see : drunk raynor goes melee to muradin and starts dancing with him, muradin laughs, presses buttons without even trying to stutterstep and laughs some more.

But the only "wrong" thing I see is a garbage raynor.
in a way he exactly shows what's wrong:

Players who have no clue complain about things they don't really understand but feel confident enough that their opinion is right so they make a forum post.
Storm bolted straight back to bronze 3 *dabs
That Raynor should have been somewhere else helping his team as a ranged assassin. He was trying to play the part of a bruiser for some weird reason..... I hope he learned his lesson lol

Probably not... this is HoTS
09/27/2018 04:21 AMPosted by DrSuperGood
What is wrong with HotS is that players who play Raynor believe they are invincible and OP and so decide to melee tough bruisers with a hero designed to be above average range.

Zeratul could have done exactly the same thing Muradin did. Diablo as well by double ramming Raynor against the walls. Jaina probably as well since she has ludicrous burst damage. Even Valeera could have, if Raynor was not fast enough at hitting her with penetrating rounds. Greymane and Nova could have burst him down. Yeh Raynor can die easily.

That Muradin build is specifically designed for 1v1. Thunder clap only does decent damage when used 1v1, with even a single other hero turning its damage to trash. He also used rewind, a 60 second CD level 20 talent which effecitvly is another ultimate. If the enemy Muradin goes that build, you do not want to go into a 1v1 with him or that will happen.


The fact you have to put "Even Valeera could have" and "Jaina probably" makes my point. A TANK should not have more mobility and dmg than ASSASSINS.

I do agree the Raynor was bad that game.
They should make Muradin a multiclass like Varian since he can outperform melee assassins on their role
09/27/2018 07:32 PMPosted by LuckyPants
09/27/2018 07:11 PMPosted by Rhasz
...

!@#$ you disrespect me go eat %^-* and die.


Well that escalated quickly.


That is cause lvl 170+ OG Original Thug life gangsta Valeera Platinum TL don't take any disrespect. Does not get even, gets ahead.
09/27/2018 04:21 AMPosted by DrSuperGood
What is wrong with HotS is that players who play Raynor believe they are invincible and OP and so decide to melee tough bruisers with a hero designed to be above average range.

Zeratul could have done exactly the same thing Muradin did. Diablo as well by double ramming Raynor against the walls. Jaina probably as well since she has ludicrous burst damage. Even Valeera could have, if Raynor was not fast enough at hitting her with penetrating rounds. Greymane and Nova could have burst him down. Yeh Raynor can die easily.

That Muradin build is specifically designed for 1v1. Thunder clap only does decent damage when used 1v1, with even a single other hero turning its damage to trash. He also used rewind, a 60 second CD level 20 talent which effecitvly is another ultimate. If the enemy Muradin goes that build, you do not want to go into a 1v1 with him or that will happen.


Yes assasins are supposed to able to burst a randged squishy down. The problem is that TANKS should not be
I think he was illustrating how a tank can kill quickly.
No matter the means.

The fact that Ray didn't have a chance....no chance at all is the point.
09/27/2018 08:22 PMPosted by Hexagon
I think he was illustrating how a tank can kill quickly.
No matter the means.

The fact that Ray didn't have a chance....no chance at all is the point.


He DID have a chance. He could have AA'd from the bush, used Inspire to keep Muradin at range, and Penetrating Round if Mura jumped into melee.

Muradin used his tools; Raynor didn't. The result? The better player wins.
09/27/2018 07:00 PMPosted by Rhasz
The fact you have to put "Even Valeera could have" and "Jaina probably" makes my point. A TANK should not have more mobility and dmg than ASSASSINS.
He does not have more damage than many assassins.

Let us break down what happened there. Excluding auto attacks he cast 2 Storm Bolts and 2 Thunder Claps and had the posibility of using Haymaker to finish.

Level 1:
Storm Bolt: 110 damage
Thunder Clap: 96 damage + 48 damage
Thunder Clap (single heroic target): 384 damage + 192 damage
Haymaker: 319 damage

This is all 4% scaling. For the purpose of a fair comparision with other heroes we will be assuming level 20 as always. The actual reference game he was level 24 so the numbers would be larger and scaled with health. Also the below numbers might be different from in game due to rounding error, in game numbers are usually slightly smaller.

Level 20:
Storm Bolt: 241.0 damage
Thunder Clap: 210.3 damage + 105.1 damage
Thunder Clap (single heroic target): 841.2 damage + 420.4 damage
Haymaker: 698.9 damage

Total Combo:
2 * Storm Bolt + 2 * Thunder Clap + Haymaker
Team Fight: 1811.7 damage
Single Heoric Target: 3704.1 damage

Storm Bolt was powered by level 1, as that is the only talent that improves it against heroes. Since the team was nooby and this is very late game we can assume a lot of stacks, say 40. At 5 damage a pop that is an increase of 200 damage per Storm Bolt. This damage does not scale with level so is a flat 400 damage total in both cases.

Team Fight: 2211.7 damage
Single Heoric Target: 4104.1 damage

Assuming 2 auto attacks inter mixed at 185.40 at level 20.

Team Fight: 2582.5 damage
Single Heoric Target: 4474.9 damage

This combo can be performed every 60 seconds, limited by the long cooldown on Rewind. Without rewind he can repeat half of it every ~10 seconds and haymaker every 40.

Now let us compare to Valeera ability damage, as I computed in another thread. The values did not factor in inter mixed auto attacks.
09/24/2018 09:43 PMPosted by DrSuperGood
Assuming a completely unawareand vulnerable target, so 0 armor…
If in group: 4113.7 * 1.1 = 4525.0 damage
If alone: 4256.1 * 1.2 = 5107.3 damage.

Valeera does this over a period of 5-6 seconds and can repeat this again 10 seconds after. Unlike Muradin who has a low burst team fight damage of 2582.5, Valeera does a team fight burst of 4525.0. Unlike Muradin who can combo 4474.9 to a single lone hero every 60 seconds, Valeera can combo 5107.3 damage with just a 10 second cooldown time.

Muradin can deal damage, but not assassin level damage. His Thunder Strike with rewind build is pretty much a one trick wonder in that it gives him assassin like burst but only to a single target with a long cooldown. Taking this build sacrifices so much from him, including improved slow, laning and even toughness.
That was hilarious thanks for the laugh!
100% honest I see nothing wrong with this. Muradin has a build designed to be strong in 1 on 1 fights, specially on dragon shire. The muradin player was smart, the Raynor player was bad.

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