If you pick Detachable Box Magazine as Ana

General Discussion
You are essentially throwing the game by removing half of your healing potential when you don't pick Piercing Darts.
I agre about DBM being bad, but the grenade talent is quite often superior to Piercing Darts; especially if you have heroes with self-sustain on your team like Malthael, Sonya, Illidan, Yrel, TB Varian and so on.
Yeah I was sold on darts for a long time until I saw a few streamers use the grenade build with the right team. When used correctly, the sustain, utility, and healing it can provide is pretty insane.
DBM isn`t the right pick everytime but it does give you bursthealpotential. Problem is, the quest is just really bad in that case because against a "we burst someone down"-comps, stacking 5 shrikes over and over again is suicidal
DBM is nerfed compared to release.

On release:
Reaching full stack added +50% shrike damage
15x stack = unlock additional heal darts

Now:
12x stack = unlock additional heal darts

With the inclusion of self heal on shrike, I feel the bonus damage for shrike should return.
This would make DBM a good self-sustain option for Ana.

Please HotS devs, return the DBM bonus damage with Ana's current state :(
DBM needs to have the bonus damage component added back in, and have that bonus damage count for extra healing for Ana to make it a good talent. In fact if she got the bonus damage back it might even over take the other 2 allowing her to position more aggressively to get healing dart on the proper hero, while also giving her a higher burst heal.
I'd rather have a consistant burst heal, than a passthrough heal. Especially later on when you get the empowered dart. It's already hard enough when your team runs around like crazy. Trying to then passthrough them to hit someone else as well is just too much of a pain. Say what you will about that, I will always choose DBM over the dart.
If you happen to have a high health tank like diablo, stitches, or Cho, dbm is best
09/27/2018 08:36 AMPosted by LoStSouLs
I'd rather have a consistant burst heal, than a passthrough heal. Especially later on when you get the empowered dart. It's already hard enough when your team runs around like crazy. Trying to then passthrough them to hit someone else as well is just too much of a pain. Say what you will about that, I will always choose DBM over the dart.


Pass through heal is 9/10 times better though.
You can reach further and you do not have to worry about allies blocking your heals.
So you shouldn't TRY to hit 2 allies everytime, though it certainly helps, but reaching those in need is a major advantage for piercing darts.
Those two aspects alone make it considerally better than DBM in my own opinion.
With shrike now healing Ana for half the damage dealt, I would argue that buffing the damage or healing of DBM would not be a good fix.

Instead, I think that Ana should receive one of the two effects added as a baseline when picking DBM.

1) Attacking a target that has no doses on them applies 2 stacks instead of 1.

Why? This change would allow Ana to be much safer when doing her quest, effectively reducing the amount of attacks she has to make on an enemy to complete this quest from 5 to 4, along with improving her sustain in team fights. Additionally, this trait can synergize with some of her other traits, given that the rate she puts doses on enemies is greatly increased.

2) Basic attack range is increased by 1.

Why? This would allow Ana to play more safe when applying doses onto enemies, reducing the risk for completing the quest and getting dived on. Additionally, this would allow her to more easily put doses on high priority targets in the backline (Jaina, Kael, etc), being able to greatly reduce their damage if she picks up mind numbing agent.
09/27/2018 12:13 PMPosted by Savior59
With shrike now healing Ana for half the damage dealt, I would argue that buffing the damage or healing of DBM would not be a good fix.

Instead, I think that Ana should receive one of the two effects added as a baseline when picking DBM.

1) Attacking a target that has no doses on them applies 2 stacks instead of 1.

Why? This change would allow Ana to be much safer when doing her quest, effectively reducing the amount of attacks she has to make on an enemy to complete this quest from 5 to 4, along with improving her sustain in team fights. Additionally, this trait can synergize with some of her other traits, given that the rate she puts doses on enemies is greatly increased.

2) Basic attack range is increased by 1.

Why? This would allow Ana to play more safe when applying doses onto enemies, reducing the risk for completing the quest and getting dived on. Additionally, this would allow her to more easily put doses on high priority targets in the backline (Jaina, Kael, etc), being able to greatly reduce their damage if she picks up mind numbing agent.


I think the suggestions are okay-ish

1) Ana's self-sustain through shrike is not very high.
In normal fights a 2 dose shrike is about 16hp per second at level 1 for 5 seconds,
Unless it is stacked upon multiple enemies, it is not much of a game changer but a nice touch-up at best.

2) Ana already has 2 talents to increase her AA range at level 4 and 20.
Giving her another AA range talent, would make her able hit from 11.5 range.
I agree it is very fun to do so, but a bit redundant to be fair.
a quick peak at Hotslogs shows...
nothing.
4% pick rate doesn't tell us anything bc its pickrate is so low than the 4% under-performance on the winning stat is wayyy under the margin for error
09/27/2018 05:12 AMPosted by Ephraim
You are essentially throwing the game by removing half of your healing potential when you don't pick Piercing Darts.
The grenade upgrade should not be under estimated. It is an easy to complete quest and once completed even increases the native regeneration of your warriors as well as denying the enemy lots of healing.

Piercing darts is most useful if your team is full of large collision melee heroes or diving heroes as chances are you will get lots of piercing darts off and can get good advantage from the extra range. It is weakest when your team is full of long range small collision heroes as you will struggle to hit them anyway, get no piercing darts off and the range advantage is worthless if you struggle to hit them without it.

The problem with Detachable Box Magazine is that it only provides burst. Sure its burst is good, that is over 1.5k healing in under a second late game, but that is all it has. Grenade deals damage and boost healing from all sources to multiple allies, easily giving more than 1.5k over DBM CD period. Piercing darts allows one to heal front line heavy comps reliably, and even gives extra range so you can still partake in team fights when nowhere near the action. Let us not forget piercing darts also improve sleeping darts which gives 0.5 seconds effective stun due to how the sleep works and potentially allows for more combos. The removal of the extra shrike damage killed DBM, it really does not offer much anymore and the CD on the 3 instant healing darts is so long it is not worth it.

They either need to lower the cooldown to 10-15 seconds (they still cost mana so this is OK), or add something to it such as DBM healing dart shots have AoE.
09/27/2018 06:02 AMPosted by Rand
DBM isn`t the right pick everytime but it does give you bursthealpotential. Problem is, the quest is just really bad in that case because against a "we burst someone down"-comps, stacking 5 shrikes over and over again is suicidal
They need to change the quest to something like "X ammount of time an enemy has 5 stacks of shrike"

Also for the love of god Blizzard give her back her damage bonus on DBM
09/27/2018 06:25 PMPosted by Banshee
09/27/2018 06:02 AMPosted by Rand
DBM isn`t the right pick everytime but it does give you bursthealpotential. Problem is, the quest is just really bad in that case because against a "we burst someone down"-comps, stacking 5 shrikes over and over again is suicidal
They need to change the quest to something like "X ammount of time an enemy has 5 stacks of shrike"

Also for the love of god Blizzard give her back her damage bonus on DBM


I agree for the stack quest.
Would rather see it like: Hit an enemy 50x with 5 stacks applied.

That way the quest wouldn't be counter-intuitive where you are forced to let Shrike expire ... and then you need to re-apply for quest points.
i think if the 3 DBM bullets pierces ALL targets then it would be worth it :P

and if they dont wanna bring back the damage for DMB (cuz omgbbq healerz shouldnt damage), they should at least add other secondary effects such as:

+50% self healing from shrike
+50% shrike duration (great synergy with other shrike talent)
+4% slow for each stack

stuff like that. the 3 Q bullets is not worth the 12 stacks of 5 shrikes imo especially with how good the other two talents are. dont nerf the other two talents to 'bring them in line', buff DBM instead please :)

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