Competitive Discussion

Jul 6, 2016 Welcome to Competitive Discussion - Please Read! Welcome to the Competitive Discussion forum! We encourage you to use this forum to provide feedback and/or discuss your experiences while playing Overwatch competitively. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct and Forum Guidelines before posting. Code of Conduct Forum Guidelines For the latest Overwatch news, click here. For the latest Overwatch patch notes, click here.Lylirra1 Jul 6, 2016
Feb 20 Advice on getting to Masters 1) Don't spam the mic. Talk if you have to and if you need to. Spamming can be obnoxious, toxic, or just distracting. There will always be time to add someone as a friend or talk to them after the match about unrelated stuff. 2) Practice playing more than 1 - 2 heroes. If you can only main Lucio, Junkrat, Reinhardt, or Widow (as a few examples), chances are you won't be as useful to your team. Practicing and being good at multiple heroes makes you versatile and more likely to have a better game / win. Ideally: learn to play at least 2 heroes from each category - tank, support, offense, defense. 3) Don't split up your team if you don't have to. Grouping up can be bad if the enemy is about to do an AOE attack like Zarya or Sombra's ult, for instance. But chances are you can be better protected by your team, and target the enemy more effectively if you're grouped. When your team is spread out, it makes them easier to be picked off. 4) Target supports. Supports don't have much HP. They are therefore easy to kill. Killing them means the enemy team can't heal. Getting the enemy's Mercy down is especially useful. Before going into big team fights in particular, make sure your team is aware where the Mercy is. Try to take her out. 5) Treat your team politely. Your team won't even want to win if you treat them like crap. You are all here to play the game competitively. Learn how to be a good sport, learn how to lose a match humbly, and learn how to give / receive constructive criticism. This wouldn't be competitive if you never lost any matches, so expect it to happen sometimes. 6) Use the voice chat (if you have a mic)to call out whether an enemy is about to ult, if there's an enemy behind your team, etc. 7) Speak calmly. There's no reason to yell. Talking calmly, you will be heard and moreover your voice won't agitate people unnecessarily. If you're yelling at your team, chances are they will mute or ignore you. 8) Switch roles if you need to. Don't stick to one hero if it isn't working out for you. If your teammates want you to switch, maybe it's a good idea to do so. 9) Practice anticipating when you should use your ult. Timing is everything. The tab button is not so far away, just press it to see if anyone else on your team has their ults. It takes half a second to press that button, and half a second to glance below everyone's icon to see if they have their ults. If not, you can ask how close they are, but at least this way you'll know immediately if you can combo your ult with anyone. 10) Practice aiming for head-shots. If that means going into the training module with bots, do it. It goes a long way. 11) Be open to your teammates playing heroes. If you're on attack, but a teammate wants to play Widow, let them. Maybe they are even good enough to carry. What everyone needs to realize is that this game is versatile. There is more than one way to win a map. Give people a chance, but they should also switch off a hero if it's not working out. 12) Realize that climbing in SR takes time. Blizzard doesn't exactly always match you up perfectly with other people on your team that are precisely your skill level. If you're having a lose-streak, perhaps it is best to take a break. 5 minutes, 30 minutes, a day, a week, it's up to you. It wouldn't be 'competitive' if you never lost any matches. 13) As a follow-up to 12), be open to taking a break between your games. Sometimes it can help for you to collect yourself after a heated match. You can reflect what went wrong, what went well - for both teams. I'll add more suggestions if people want. These are the big problems I see daily in my games. Last season, I solo queued my way from low Plat (~2400) to mid Masters (3700) by following these concepts. Please add any other useful suggestions you think would help people if they practiced them. Edit: Thank you for pinning this to the top! I'm glad this facilitated people learning more about competitive. To the people telling me my SR is below masters, that I shouldn't be giving advice, etc: my career high is 3704. I played countless hours improving and learning. My advice is accumulated from that. I quit playing competitive once I reached 3704 last season and let it decay to 3000. I didn't go on a lose streak. I have, however, encountered lots of players this and last season who weren't familiar with the advice I put here. Also, just from a logical standpoint, my advice taken as an argument is independent of my SR. Good-luck in your games! Edit #2 edit boogaloo: got to masters this season (2nd time) @ 3511. Edit #3: got to masters this season again @ 3508.etcyl301 Feb 20
Feb 20 Upcoming Competitive Play Changes for Season 8 Limiting the Skill Rating variance for Teams With the debut of the new competitive season 8 in January we’re going to be making a few matchmaking changes to increase match quality. The first change is limiting the maximum Skill Rating (SR) difference between the highest SR player on a team and the lowest SR player on the same team. This will especially help players at both the lower and higher limits of SR, where there are typically fewer players available. If a player has an SR of 4500, there are not that many other players who have a similarly high SR. The matchmaker has previously assigned players who are of a much lower SR to the same team as 4500 SR player, and hasn’t always created the best match experience possible. We implemented the technology for this change in the 1.17.0.3 patch at the end of November, but did not aggressively tune the SR value of the limit. During the month of December we will be quietly testing the effect of more restrictive SR limits to both match quality and queue times. With the data and player feedback from testing, we’ll then come back from our holiday break on January 2 and apply a finalized set of values for Season 8. Note that the matchmaker will still allow you to group with other players according to the current SR limits at their skill tier, which is 1000 SR for Bronze through Diamond, 500 SR for Master, and 250 for Grandmaster. We recently restricted the SR grouping limit at Grandmaster with this new Season 8 change in mind. Removing Personal Performance Skill Rating Adjustments for Diamond tier players and above Ok, this explanation is going to be pretty lengthy, so everyone grab some popcorn and buckle up. When you win a competitive match of Overwatch, you gain Skill Rating, and when you lose a match you also lose Skill Rating. The amount that you gain or lose is calculated based on many different factors, and here’s a quick list of some of the most important ones: • If you have a higher than 50% chance to win a match, you gain less for a win and lose more for a defeat. Conversely, if you were an underdog in a match than you gain more SR when you win and lose less SR when defeated. • New players experience both higher gains and higher losses than players who have completed a lot of matches. • You gain less SR for a win than you lose for a defeat as you more closely approach the system’s mathematical upper limit 5000 SR. (So at very high SRs you do need a greater than 50% win rate to keep your SR stable.) There is also another factor in determining the SR change after completing a match, and that’s a measurement of how well you personally performed during the match. If you perform well than you gain more SR when you win, and lose less SR when defeated. The reverse is also true, so if you perform very poorly you gain less SR for a win and lose additional SR when defeated. The personal performance adjustments have been controversial amongst the community for quite some time, especially since the calculations for these adjustments are not at all transparent. The adjustment does create a lot of positive system wide effects including rewarding players who make the effort to play well, punishing inactive players, and more quickly providing fairer matches for new players or those who decide to play a new hero or role. So we spent quite a lot of time examining data over multiple seasons, checking a lot of math, reading a LOT of community feedback, and then doing some deep soul searching about this. Especially at the higher levels of online competition where every point of SR matters, we want players to not be distracted and worry about how to optimize around the personal performance adjustment. They should just be trying to WIN. So after we get back from the holidays on January 2nd we’re going to turn off the personal performance SR adjustments for players in the Diamond skill tier and above. We look forward to everyone playing matches and giving us feedback about these changes in Season 8!Scott Mercer590 Feb 20
Feb 19 IMPORTANT - Technical Reminders about End-of-Season/Season 8 ... ... Hello everyone! There is less than a week remaining in the seventh Competitive Season and I wish to express a few key reminders about some technical rules of the competitive season. A lot of this is technically news you may not want to hear, but I feel this is a "The More You Know... [insert shooting rainbow star here]" sort of posts, so I hope you keep that in mind before giving me a Like or Dislike. If you are showing any signs of disconnections, PLEASE stop playing Competitive until next season. I do not want to see other players get banned at the last minute due to connection issues of any kind. Remember, all disconnections counts as leaving the match per competitive rules and will be penalized appropriately. If you are disconnecting and wish to troubleshoot the problem, please post in the technical support forum or check out this guide: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757255749 Reminder for players who are season banned: If you have been SEASON BANNED from Competitive Play due to leaving/disconnecting from games, you WILL NOT receive any End-of-Season rewards including bonus Competitive Points, spray or player icon. Furthermore, those who were banned from the season will not be allowed access to the Off-season Competitive Play Mode from December 28th to December 31st. This is suppose to happen in accordance with the rules of Competitive Play. Source: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745575028#post-3 You can tell if you are completely seasoned banned if the competitive play option is locked and no suspension timer is displayed on the top of the locked competitive play option. If you have THREE season bans on record, you may already be PERMANENTLY banned from Competitive Play. Announced in the middle of season 5 and followed up with a formal announcement in season 6 by the Overwatch development team, players who have at least three season bans on record, are subjected to a PERMANENT ban from Competitive Play on their account. So when Season 8 starts, and your Competitive Play Option is still locked, you may be one of those players. Details on this policy: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759266236 Leaving an off-season match results in an INSTANT -75% XP penalty According to player posts from last off-season, if you left an off-season competitive match, not only did it trigger a suspension, but it also instantly applied the -75% XP Penalty. This penalty can only be removed by playing several games (of any game type) without leaving whatsoever. NEW! What else to expect when Season 8 starts Unless there are further changes when the formal season 8 news blog comes out on New Year's Eve, I would like to remind everyone of the new change that Scott Mercer posted. Players ranked in Diamond tier or higher, will NO LONGER have personal performance be a factor in calculating skill rating adjustments after each match. Players in Platinum tier and lower will still have personal performance be a factor. This enables players to continue to develop their skills and increase without their teammates or the result of a match be as much of a factor. Players in Diamond and higher will still see varied skill rating adjustments. Remember factors such as strength of schedule, frequency of play time, skill rating decay recovery, and how close to 5000 SR you are will still influence the SR adjustment. All other competitive rules still apply (especially skill rating decay). Thank you for hearing out my little P.S.A. but this is a busy time for me as I participate in the MVP program in the Tech Forum and the CROWDS program on the @BlizzardCS Twitter Feed and I am trying to get as much of the word out now as possible. Cheers! (^^)vWyomingMyst71 Feb 19
Jul 15 Help for the lower ranks Hello everyone, I'm an ex-master and I hear many people complaining about the're stuck in their ranks and stuff like that. So I'm here to help you guys with some hints to improve your rank. I'm not gonna say it all will instantly work but you'll have much use of it in the future. Just put here below your problem and I'm gonna help you. PS: this is not a troll, so you wouldn't hear garbage like "Git gut" from me.StRode500 Jul 15
Feb 20 " you are at the SR you belong" fallacy I read it often in this forum, whenever some " low rank" like me posts about how the sr system is screwing us over. "You are at the SR you belong", "Stop blaming others" ,"There's no such thing as bad luck", "Focus on yourself","If you're there you're doing something wrong". Following these sayings, I'm the only one responsible for my losses. I cannot blame anyone , because throwers/leavers/ smurfs are not why I lose. But you are forgetting that overwatch is a team game. TEAM. Meaning one player cannot be the difference, unless that player is really good. Your rank is more determined by how well your team works together than by your sole performance. How am I at the SR i belong to, when I climb 1k when I'm in a good team and drop down 1k when I solo queue. What's that? The team was carrying? Wait, I thought you sr was solely determined by your skill.... so maybe it isn't after all.... Are you going to tell me that toxic players/onetricks/throwers/leavers/smurfs are just a product of my imagination? That there's no such thing as bad luck when I play against or with these people 5 times in a row? Are you going to tell me I belong where I am, when i carry so hard my mouse clicks don't work properly anymore. When i have all my hours on reinhardt and freaking moira when i'm a reaper main? When I play hours on end trying to get some sens einto people's head until I end up with 5 other people, and we're so good we decide to stick together and win every game? The sr system SHOULD be an accurate representation of where you belong but it isn't . It's flawed and it's still getting fixed, and we're just talking about the problems we encounter at our rank. So don't come in those thread, you who only play with you team and never solo queue, saying that "You belong where you are". Because if we're making a thread about what we notice, about what we think would make our experience better , and if so many people are doing it that it's literally what you see everyday, it means there is an actual problem. And stop thinking bronze/silver players don't know what they're doing. They do. I do. I know my flaws and I know I don't always play well. And when i don't I blame myself, but genuinely, when I have a normal team, I win. also please, saying that " if you're there you must be doing something wrong" no one is perfect. It's not becaus eyou're doing 1 thign wrong that your a re stuck in bronze. Becaus ethen it would mean everyone above plays perfectly yet are not gm, which makes no senseLightwaves209 Feb 20
Feb 20 Competitive CTF - Placed Silver then Masters . . . WTF You can check the CTF placement on this account, and see it is 3500. Prior to this account I placed 1839 (silver) on my other account. Blizzard, would you like to weigh in on this and help me understand how I can place 1700 points differently days apart?IAmSupport23 Feb 20
Feb 20 Nice Sh*tshow. And let me guess planned changes for next season none. Rank reset no.. Useless POSSirBitesalot0 Feb 20
Feb 20 Ban Wifi and over 150ms in comp. bunch of broken college kids sharing wifi on their 30$ plan internet with Apple laptop HAHAHAHAHPlayer9 Feb 20
Feb 20 Being able to hide your rank. Why do our profiles have to show our rank in QP or Arcade? Aren't these modes for fun/practice? I don't want some jerk telling me "lol silver portrait in Gold/Plat" just because I don't play that much competitive(2-3 games/day,many with bad dps instalockers and feeders). Make it so that we have the option to show our rank on our profile in Quickplay and Arcade.JarlBallin2 Feb 20
Feb 20 Why Role Select Wont Work... Role select is something that has been asked from the people for a while and on paper it seems like a fantastic idea. You queue up for your favorite role, you find a game and nobody can tell you to swap because you’re stuck with what you have. That’s where we run into the first problem, a support player can technically play sym and claim that it’s the only support player that they know how to play, therefore they technically aren’t throwing even though you never see a teleporter or shield generator. It can’t count as throwing because they played an non-optimal character remember, so nothing changes from what we have now. Another situation, assuming you are stuck with the role you chose like before, you have a dude who is on Tank and is literally the tank equivalent of a dumpster fire. He can’t land a hook as the piggy man and his shield is constantly breaking as everybody's favorite german wall or horse lady, bubbles suck, etc. He admits it and asks to swap to a healer and that someone else who also plays tank to take the role. One of the support players agree to take the swap but oh !@#$. He’s stuck in tank and he is stuck in support. You can’t swap so you might as well throw the game because as long as he is on tank, your team gets rolled. Ok, so now we assume that you can still pick other heroes but there is a logo next to your name that states what role you prefered. Your Tanks play sym and your support plays Torb on attack and they both say “We did it for shorter queue times.” Sure you can report them but that won’t stop you from seeing it from time to time. It will happen, then there’s an outcry for you to be stuck in the position you asked for and we circle back to situations one and two. One more note: If you are always put into a 2-2-2 this would create a stagnant meta nd make the game boring as %^-* really quickly. Conclusion: In a game where constantly changing and adapting to the enemy team comp to always get to the upper hand, how would being locked into a position or choosing a position help or benefit the health of the game? Quick answer: it wont. Thanks for reading this I wrote it instead of paying attention in my Philosophy class and this is all my personal opinion and you don’t have to agree with it and rada rada rada. I appreciate you for taking my thoughts into consideration. TuckTuckFloof (TTFloof in game becasue Blizzard has yet to change the character limit from 12-15 so I can fit my entire name and not be called !@#$% Floof, OmegaLUL)TTFloof3 Feb 20
Feb 20 NERF WIDOW BB GUN NOW Widow's machine gun damage is ridiculous, I'm a DVA main and it can destroy my mech with one fking clip. WTF Is wong. NERF THIS BEACH NOW!MolotovMei2 Feb 20
Feb 20 CTF Abilities. I guess what i'm confused about, is why devs allow the use of abilities for the flag carrier in CTF when the rules clearly specify "FLAG RULE: FLAG CARRIER ABILITIES RESTRICTED". So why do I see Hog able to use heavy breather and Genji able to use deflect. These are both abilities; I'm sure there are others I haven't seen because I don't play much CTF. So I guess i'm confused at the whole point of the rules when they are already allowed to be broken. But we worry about other non abilities like Lucio wall climb or other strategic advantages to picking certain heroes like Genji, Tracer, Winston, Phara who have the abilities to get a slight boost prior to grabbing the flag, which is no longer allowed. Arguably that's understandable, but the rules don't specify these types of advantages are restricted. It would seem the simple fix to that would be to not allow instant flag pickup. Quite contradicting I know, but where is the line? I guess this just speaks rules are meant to be broken...Jurst2 Feb 20
Feb 20 Moira is overpowered and it's time to fix it. Her orbs do way too much damage. She shouldn't be a dps character when she is meant to be a support. It's time to fix it.Dayr4 Feb 20
Feb 20 SERIOUSLY... does this game provide ANY fun? Just uninstalled it. Wishing i could have a refund. Cancelled my WoW subscription as well and im hating Blizzard SO BAD now. Damn... 8 seasons long and they couldn't figure how to make this work. You simply see your rank going down, and the game becomes worst and worst... !@#$ picks, %^-* players, leavers and all the rage from the toxic retards around and you just can't figure HOW to climb to have a better experience. This !@#$ is so broken man, makes me wonder how Blizzard will even survive if this is their best work so far... gosh. Can't imagine me saying this but, guys, you suck. You made something really really bad with this game regarding this competitive thing. No point to play casual anymore since you want to have some serious action in competitive BUT no point to play competitive because you simply CAN'T play seriously with all this %^-*ing mess with ranks and all. Holycrap... what in the F... hell are you doing man? Just make something fun again... But until there, you will no more see my money. Have a good day sir.Antonelli13 Feb 20
Feb 20 The "Oh no they have X hero, so switch off" Mentality Rant Look I totally understand that counters are a thing in this game, I get that sometimes switching is necessary but sometimes in gold I feel people get so unbelievably FIXATED on the fact that we have a genji or pharah and the enemy team has a winston or hitscan that they literally stop everything they're doing just to spam the mic with whining and complaints. They totally disregard everything else going on even if that genji or whatever hero in question is all golds and carrying the team getting QUAD KILLS every fight. It's like they think this is pokemon and it's like a grass vs fire type thing... I've seen this quite a lot lately with the meta changing. I play a lot of pharah and i'm by no means exceptional but a good example here is playing pharah against hitscans. A good pharah can actually murder mccree or soldier and i've seen this many many times on my own teams and on enemy teams where the entire team goes hitscan and the pharmercy is still dominating. Some players are like a mouse trap. One tiny mistake and they instantly start having a tantrum "Oh I know why we're losing! It's because we have a ****ing genji/pharah and they have winston/hitscan! YEAH IT'S ALL HIS FAULT GUYS". I'd personally rather my team's dps play what they play best at vs swapping to a hero they really suck at if they choose to lock in the dps role. Overall I feel that really benefits the team more. Why not help the genji out with the winston instead of letting him !@#$ and jump all over your team freely as he pleases?DoctorKelp29 Feb 20
Feb 20 Devs do not prioritize competitive? Why does it feel like the devs do not prioritize competitive? how can they expect the overwatch league, more specifically contenders to contuinue when so many people have and still are leaving the competitive scene because of how unenjoyable the current competitive system is? i feel like the majority of the community would agree with me that i would much rather have all resources working toward a better competitive experience rather then more content creation, skins and events. i love the game with all my heart but competitive feels like a complete waste of time and has for an extremely long time and it astonishes me that the devs havent done anything drastic enough or fast enough to fix the situation it has been in, and to make the game fun again.Vladicus5 Feb 20
Feb 20 Does everyone throw at the end of the season? Just like the title says do most people just throw comps at the end of the season. Of my last 25 games 14 had atleast 2 throwers that weren't duo queued. It's also not just bad players that are practicing in comp its people who actually just jump off the map or insta lock a character and run in and die without shooting and my favorite people who pick healers and just say im not gonna heal anyone. It's so irritating working my !@# of just to keep us on par with the enemy team in a 4v6 and just losing no matter what.K0nf1rm12 Feb 20
Feb 20 If you think you don't belong in Bronze or Silver. Submit a video of your performance in a fairly close match to a Master or Grandmaster player and have them review it. Most people in these ranks make the excuse that since they have a mic, they often get gold elims and are not Hanzo-meme, they automatically deserve to rank up. I used to have this fallacy as well until I sent a video of my performance and realized just how many mistakes I made, which I overlooked simply because other players were making more blatant errors. Possibly so, your aim/tracking is off, your engaging in matchups you shouldn't, you're overextending too far, you're firing beyond the falloff range, you're not being watchful of team mates in trouble and saving them from opponents attacks.BernieSander25 Feb 20
Feb 20 Sensitivity Question Do you play all heroes at a different sensitivity setting or the same? I personally have every hero set on a slightly different sensitivity and I've been thinking that this could cause inconsistencies in my aim when switching heroes.Skittles12 Feb 20
Feb 20 Bring "Avoid Player" back People say that "it can be abused" but how? you avoid player on YOUR team. this will affect 2 kind of people. those who avoid A LOT and those who get avoided by A LOT. So in such cases, their "longer queue" times might mean something. side note: 1) avoid player will only be for an period of time (say 7 days). after that, the algorithm will revert that "avoid" parameter 2) you avoid player on YOUR team. So if you avoid a good player, they might play against you, just not in your team. 3) avoid player doesn't mean NEVER MATCH. it means prefer not to have. same effect as "prefer this player" but negative please share your thoughts on this. I fail to see how it can be exploited.Gohan625 Feb 20
Feb 20 Why do people get so mad at Widow? *I understand that kills and damage doesn't necessarily mean anything.* I am able to determine when I am making a good contribution to the team. I try to go for the healers and dps on site so my team can push (if on attack). I usually succeed and sometimes it works out. Other times I try my best and swap if I am getting countered. I just don't understand why the blame instantly goes towards the Widow when we lose. I know when I am contributing towards getting the point or defending, and although not necessarily important, I usually end up with gold kills, gold objective kills and gold damage. People seem to blame Widow instantly despite other players that are clearly getting countered and not doing a lot to help the team. Undoubtedly I'm going to get replies saying I'm a terrible Widow, gold doesn't matter and plenty insults from this toxic community.Luna32 Feb 20
Feb 20 Auto-aim heroes don't make sense What's the point of making an *shooting* game and then make heroes that don't have to *aim*? It's not fun to play as, with, and against those heroes.d4rkwizo13 Feb 20
Feb 20 Placed 2991 in CTF but 2300 in nornal comp Title i dont know what to do. I play as well as i can but i only place maybe a hundred above where i was last season in comp and can barely climb, but in comp CTF i placed basically diamond and even in lucioball comp i placed decently into plat. I seem to be hard stuck in gold and I dont know how to tell if its my fault, what do I do?Dani5 Feb 20
Feb 20 Is 'elo hell' real? First post here, So confused about this ranking system and as to why I am forever stuck in silver. what does one need to do to get to a decent rank? I try hard every single game yet my statistics is beyond embarrassing. I'm not here to blame my teammate and to say I'm always getting the short end of the straw. but the constant feel to need to carry to win a game is messing with my stress levels so much If i don't preform my A game and we lose then i completely accept the defeat and happy to take a short break and re-q but when i preform my hardest and lose due to poor teamwork , team comp, or others under-preforming I get extremely stressed. I don't understand how I'm at a silver rank - I just did some 1v1s and i was vsing a 3.4k dps main the score was 3-5 and then I was up against another 3.8k DPS main and i beat him 5-4. I also hold my own against higher ranks in custom game. I'm not saying I belong in those ranks and I know 1v1 is completely different to competitive matchmaking but for a silver tank main to beat a high master dps main (who said in chat he was actually trying) is just unreal and you'd think the silver would get completely steamrolled. I watch videos to improve my game sense, i know when the fight is over and when to back out, I'm vocal doing callouts when needed, I don't try to 1v6 the enemy team, I'm flexible in my picks and never selfish yet I still always lose and I don't know why. any ideas on how to drastically improve your SR because this is ruining the game for me which is a shame considering how much I love it.Wslade1 Feb 20
Feb 20 Why did you lose SR today? (stories) I've lost so much confidence in ranked, I wanted to make this thread about my own and everyone's experiences and why you, yourself know very well why your team lost. We all have a story so I want to hear yours. Rant and let out that steam. It'll make you feel better to talk about it. :) For me...It was pushing the payload (attack) at Dorado. We was all set and only moved the payload...a little...But unfortunately it didn't go well. After the match was complete, the 'attack' Hanzo on our team was letting his anger out on everyone, accusing no one of getting to the payload. I had to let him know that my objective time was gold...I wanted to win as much as he did either way. Instead of trying to communicate with the team of who could of switched and what we could of done better, he thought it'll be a great idea to start insulting the team instead by calling us morons and picking on someone else who picked Symmetra on defense. He claimed that he 'carried' us even though we didn't get far with that so-called-'carry'. In the end we lost. Just remember everyone; as Roadie says; there's no i in team. Its a TEAM based game no matter how 'good' you think you are.Alexandrite4 Feb 20
Feb 20 Thread to rant in The name says it all, guy air your anger and frustrations at the game here. It’ll make you feel better have you hopefully calm downHippieDrood0 Feb 20
Feb 20 Placement Rank I just got off my placements on xbox, and did a 6-4. I even had two games with the same thrower. I had all golds throughout the placements and never died more than 8 times. I played: Roadhog Reaper Junkrat Tracer And Bastion Why did I end up placing in high silver? I was performing so well and ended up placing so low. Forum Mod Edit: This thread title has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/Vacuitous4 Feb 20
Feb 20 Is there a reason to return after a disconnect? If you disconnect and are able to reconnect to the game right away, you have the option to rejoin the game. Great! However, even if you win, you will still lose 50 SR and still be suspended from finding another match for 5 minutes or so when you finish. I notice a lot of people don't come back after a disconnect, and having just experienced the situation I described, I wonder if that is why. I'd really prefer for teammates to come back, as we can quickly regain momentum if a player is only gone 15 seconds or so. So, I'm just kind of wondering if the game gives players any reason to bother to return after the disconnect? Do you bother to return if you disconnect for a few seconds?Hexadecimal12 Feb 20
Feb 20 Moira DPS and no Heal? The past couple of days, and just a few minutes ago, I've played in a few games where Moria has been the only healer. I played Symmetra (please no hate), and most often the team won't chose a third support with an actual healing ability. In that case, one would think that Moira would heal. I've been in two games where the exact scenario played out and she didn't heal. Case 1) I asked in chat after we took our first defense point if anyone was receiving heals. The Moira player exclaimed "am I solo healing again? I hate that." At the end of the game, our Moira got player of the game and in the clip, I'm right next to her dying while she is DPSing. It's like she wanted to do all of the killing and leave everyone else to fend for themselves. Case 2) I just played this match, and again I played Symmetra. Moira was our only healer. I was getting blamed for not doing anything by are Zarya. On the first Point Control map, we were doing good, but I noticed I wasn't getting healed, even though I was on point and defending the best I could. The tank even put a barrier on me I was so low of health. I was low at the end of a defense and all enemies were gone. I wound up searching for a health pack. We lost that match. On the second map, I had killed soldier and dropped down behind the point to set up turrets and such, and I latched on to Trader (got lucky with that kill), and naturally other enemies caught on. I almost killed Lucio before D'Va came in with a blaze. I got killed, but in my kill recap, Moira just happened to be behind me. I didn't receive any heals. Our tank blamed me, naturally. My question, Has anyone came across this situation where a player picks Moira to DPS but doesn't tell the team that's all she wants to do? Mind you, I main Mercy too, and I've noticed in some of my games that I don't see Moira heal a lot as I do in other games. It's a weird situation.Landagne38 Feb 20
Feb 20 Higher Level Requirement to Combat Leavers/Trolls/Throwers Most people that throw, troll or leave games are doing it on their smurf/throw away accounts. They don’t care about the consequences of their actions because it will not affect their main account. The best way to combat this is too raise the level requirement to play competitive. Maybe around the levels 50-100 because most people that do invest the time on leveling up will take the game a bit more serious.iNeedHugsNow5 Feb 20
Feb 20 Why are Hanzo mains hated? So first and for most i am a hanzo main my experience as a hanzo main has been absolutely horrid not because im not good as hanzo but because the community is so incredibly toxic multiple times i have been threatened my family has been threatened. Reporting just doesn't help i've reported several people just due to toxicity and then seen those same people several days or hours later with no punishment. I really hate having to leave the team chat due to someone being toxic.xX377ninjaXx60 Feb 20
Feb 20 Are harder heroes not worth to play? Hey guys I'm a tank main and I had these thoughts for a long time. I would like to know what you guys think of this topic. Maybe I'm getting something wrong here. As everybody knows: In Overwatch you have some heroes which are easier to play and some which are harder to master. But when I started to play OW I thought that you can have more impact with the harder heroes when you get better with them compared to the easier ones. Which makes in some way sense: Why should you otherwise bother with harder heroes when there are easier ones. But at the moment I don't think that's really the case. Let's have a look on zarya. She is by the in game definition of overwatch the hardest tank. She is for sure not exactly like dva but in some way you can compare her with dva: Both of them have an ability to absorb damage. Both of them can assure an amount of damage. For absorbing damage, I think dva has a better spot. Sure Zarya has two bubbles both with 2 seconds while dva has only one matrix for 2 seconds. But she can protect the whole team with that, while zarya can only protect one of her team and herself. Also zarya can only protect the amount of 200 damage with one bubble while dva has no damage limit with her matrix. When it comes to to protect the team against ultimates, for me dva has also a better spot. She can protect the whole team for 2 seconds against ultimates of: Reaper, Roadhog, Phara, McCree, Soldier, Bastion, Torbjörn and has also the ability to eat the ultimates of: Zarya, Tracer, Hanzo, Mei While Zarya can only protect herself and one of her teammates at the same situation for the amount of only 200 damage and 2 seconds (Which doesn't help much in an ultimate). The only ultimates where zarya has a better spot are: Tracer, Junkrat, Dva, Doomfist, Genji, Sombra, Reinhard When it comes to damage, zarya has also not the best spot. A fully charged zarya shooting her left and right click combined in one second reaches a damage of 270 while a dva creates also 270 damage with boosters, fusion cannons and micro missiles in one second (without counting head shots). And keep in mind. Zarya needs for that a 100% charge while dva has only to wait for her cooldown (8 seconds for micro missiles) to be ready again. Zarya has a bit a better spot after 1,5 seconds because she has only to reload her gun (1.5s) while dva has to wait for her 8 seconds micro missiles to gain her maximum damage per second. But still dva can do a good amount of damage in near range and also has next to her matrix the ability to leave the place after 5 seconds. Which leads us to the next point: Zarya has no mobility then walking around while dva can fly with her boosters. And in my view mobility is one of the best ability in the game which a hero can have. When it comes to the ultimate, I think zarya has a better spot, but only if the communication is working in your team. And the problem here is, you can be the best zarya in the world, but when your teammates missed their ults in combination with your ultimate your ultimate is gonna be more or less worthless. So in conclusion, zarya has less protection for her team, has just a bit more damage than dva (when 100% charged), has no mobility and needs also a good teammate for her ult to have a good impact. Why should you spent time getting better with zarya when there is a dva with the same good spot but is much easier to play? And I think ana (hard to play) is in a similar spot compared to other healers or harder dps compared to junkrat, but I'm not a main healer nor dps player and maybe I'm missing here a big point. What do you guys think about this topic?Hunter997 Feb 20
Feb 20 is overwatching becoming a spectator game sorry for stealing stylosa's latest video but i think he had some valid points. now i love this game i love the way that it works and i love the way the heroes play and the way... like the whole game just feels ( it's hard to explain). watching owl has made me wanna play the game more and has kinda brought me back to comp. but i agree with what stylosa said when he said that this game to him is not as fun as it used to be. watching owl and seeing what some of the best players in the world can do, has made me wanna do the same things. but the problem with comp as a whole is, unless you queue up with a full team, it's so hard to make a team comp work. you either have an amazing game with a great team and this game is the best thing in the world, or you have a game where you get an attack torb on 2cp with an attack sym and you lose and you just think this game is designed by monkeys on the moon.( suck it blizzard :P) so i'm honestly watching more of overwatch than i am playing and i think that this game is becoming a rly fun game to watch... bu8t not so much fun to play anymore. what do you all think thoughHippieDrood11 Feb 20
Feb 20 Genji Dash Hitbox I've noticed this a lot when I'm playing genji and want to get away from people. I think that when genji dashes, his hitbox should go with him. It would make him harder to hit when using his most mobile ability, which is the point of the ability. I've gotten killed way too many times when they shoot at where the hitbox is when it's where my character used to be, at the begining of my dash, and I get killed when I'm in the middle of my dash and they shoot where I was and get the kill. So yeah, I've seen people complain that genji is "overpowered", no sure how that exactly works. Jeff pls notice meMarshun1 Feb 20
Feb 20 People that complain to much about their teammates. I dont know why but some people seem to have really unrealistic expectations of some people. I had a comp match yesterday where i had the gold medals for kills and damage and my team was still complaining that i wasnt doing anything. I do think that i have been reported becaus of that which i dont like becaus its pretty unfair. I would like to know if others have a lot of problems with that.SnowDragon17 Feb 20
Feb 20 I went from Plat to Master this season SoloQ hitscans DPS (rarely support/tank) Literally all I had to do is to gid gud I mean i'm still bad, but at least not as bad as before so what's up with all these people crying on the forums, that their SR is wrong, how their teammates are bringing them down, too many trolls, throwers etc? It took me around 1 week to go from 2700ish to 3.5k, but it wouldn't be fair to leave it at that, because there is more to that, a lot of hours on ana bots, ffa, widow hs only FFA, aim hero, watching pro players and playing on my second account bear in mind, i've never taken comp seriously, played OW only for events, bearly played comp cuz of fear of losing SR, but once i started grinding, stopped tilting and let my emotions take over, i climbed rapidly, even if like 4-5 guys insta locked DPS and i was sure some of them wont swap, I bite the bullet and go tank/support, and most of these games i've won.. Sure I've played tf2 for like 2k hours and I've reached GE in csgo, even a little bit of quake but that doesn't matter because i was an actual trash at hitscans (very long break and too much WoW), my stats were awful before I started to practice (38% scoped accuracy, 33% accuracy on mccree) And to all of you who keep crying about elo hell git gud EDIT: can't tell why so many dislikes? is it cuz of "git gud"? git gudMrMango24 Feb 20
Feb 20 HOW TO GET RID OF TOXICITY So we all know the devs are trying their hardest to get rid of toxicity in overwatch. But let's face it, it's dang near impossible to do so. And I believe the only way to truly get rid of toxicity is to take this matter into our own hands. Therefore I propose the P.M.A. Movement. (Positive mental attitude.) To do so we as a community will have to do our Part. If you get 4 dps go heals or tank and congratulate everyone for every kill. Nice ult soldier. Good picks widow. Nice flash mccree. The match ends win or lose type GG into match chat. Congratulate the enemy as well. We have to be positive. If someone says your bad at dps. Say do you wanna try I can fill for you. Mercy heal me. Make sure to pay special attention to them. Never be toxic. Always be nice to someone no matter what. I know it will be hard guys but we have to try. It's for the greater good I don't care if I lose 1000 sr in the process. I will forever fill please take one for the community and make it a better place. Make sure to keep posting things like this in general and competitive forums. Always be positive guys. We can overcome this wave of negativity. I believe in all of you Now, Are you with me?creepokilla2 Feb 20
Feb 20 Buff Ana No healer should have less than a 50% winrate. Ana has always had about 45%. Even in GM she barely gets a 50% winrate. I've asked for the ability to shoot through barriers before. I thought of a new one, it would be nice if her scope didn't have a trail. So finding Ana would be difficult if she had a long sight line...LuckyDiver2 Feb 20
Feb 20 My thoughts on ranked(rant incoming) Until recently, I always thought I belonged at my sr. I thought that I was a mediocre player, who belonged in gold max. This was back in season 6. Since then I have played 40-50 more hours of overwatch(and counting), and now I consider myself pretty decent, My stats are better, my teamwork is better, and in general I am just a better player. So why have I not ranked up? Why have I stayed forever stuck in gold no matter how much better I get? I hate to say this, but my teams. When someone rages over mic, or leaves the game, or locks sym on attack(and throws themselves off a cliff), I can't help but feel like that isn't my fault. These kinds of games happen way too often too. Back when I sucked, It used to be that I got one of these matches 1 out of 8 times. Now, It feels more like 4 out of 8. Here is how my matches have went lately. Win 1 or two with non toxic teams(and have fun), loose two with toxic teams. The result is always me gaining 0 sr, and just feeling like i waste my time. Unlike others, when the whole team is trying I don't blame others for the loss. I do however blame them when someone is being toxic, trolling or leaves. I can't say this enough I've been kept at my rank by toxic teams, not bad teamsNotSure11 Feb 20
Feb 20 How dva/sombra helped me climb So these season i finally broke out of gold and it was my first season on dva. Through experience these characters really forced me to understand positioning and being agressive without dying by being punished mercilessly for my mistakes. It made me realize that some characters really help you think about your gameplay and style in general and have relatable experience that applies to all other characters. Id also want to put out there these are great characters for learning great position skills because of how controllable there mobility kits areNexusAtomSK0 Feb 20
Feb 20 Am I just extremely unlucky? So I would like to think I am okay at the game in general and prior to the past few days, I had done reasonably well in comp and hit a SR just under 1900. I started playing again a couple days ago after a break of about a month and I have dropped over 2 days from 1900 to 1430. Before everyone starts saying 'It's clearly you', 'learn your heroes', 'watch twitch' - I did. I thought it was more than likely my fault so I purposely read up on using Winston and Dva (who I rarely used) and try everything I can do work with my team. I still seem to lose. But the worst thing is, half the time it IS my teams fault because either they go Torb for attack or try attack an objective as Hanzo. Some of the worst ones that are getting to me is people just disconnecting and then leaving us to get pummeled by the other team. I had a minor win streak earlier where we won 2 games in a row, then on the third, we won the first round dead easy but for no reason at all, two ungrouped people decided to leave and as you can imagine in 6-4, it was just a waste of time. Now when I queue I'm getting the same kinds of people - this last round (which has made me turn overwatch off for now) has a guy just say 'Im going to throw this' and then proceeded to shoot the walls and laugh when I told people to report him for inactivity. The other thing is, half the time, the whole enemy team is on fire. It seems really fishy. We were put against a player who just trashed our whole team repeatedly as pharrah, he was literally unstoppable. Am I just being given !@#$ty team mates or is there some hidden matchmaking going on? It's not every match, some are enjoyably close and the team works together but I would say its 8/10 matches.KazKnad8 Feb 20
Feb 20 I hate winning with cheese comp Now after dropping to bronze from gold all what I see is cheese comps from my team and the enemy team. Bastion is everywhere literally 9 out of 10 games there is a bastion. Bastion is in every payload map, on most control points, same with sym. It's normal to have bastion/sym and maybe torb in one team and the other team will have bastion and orisa or something like that. Here is the worst part, attack bastion always wins on payload maps. I can kill bastion he is not an issue for me at all, I can kill him with zarya, rein, zen, hog and many other heroes but it takes me a little bit because I have to go above him or behind him to kill him. Thus, for me to kill takes max 10 seconds to kill bastion which is fine because the of the team just falls apart. However, people don't know how to hide and wite until he is dead which a lot of times puts me in 2 v 5 or something like that which then I have to run a way unless if I have grav ( assuming that I have 100 energy because bastions love to feed zaryas ). That sounds great attack comp and quick way to rank up, right?? Yes, I mean bastion will kill everything he sees just keep genji away from him. However, it sucks to win with that comp. It takes very little effort from the team and the bastion to kill things. You literally just aim roughly where they are at and they are dead. I want some fun in my games, I love close games where both teams trying their best and no cheese involved. I am getting out of bronze over the weekend and back to 1900 or gold (by killing every bastion I see ) because I don't want to deal with that bastion crap for the next sesson. Wish me luck.Mohammed1 Feb 20
Feb 20 Why Handicapping (MMR) is Wrong for Competitive Play Author's note: Players, please like or dislike this post if you agree or disagree that MMR should be removed from Competitive Play. In two polls, we have voted overwhelmingly in favor (at 403 to 50, and 320 to 42). This is a continuation of two threads which have reached their limit for comments: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759237722 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759162492 Blizzard, please respond! Objective I argue to remove Match Making Rating (MMR) from Competitive matchmaking. In Competitive matchmaking, MMR ensures the type of match that Blizzard wants players to have: hotly contested and as long as possible, with a 50% chance for either team to win. But true competitive players want no such guarantee. And because the matchmaking system ensures those 50% odds by arranging teams based on hidden skill-metrics (MMR), it: Covertly *handicaps* Competitive matches, Favors new players over experienced players, Fails to prove the skill difference between players, Requires prohibitively long wait times for groups, and Lowers the quality of gameplay across all competitive tiers. How is such a travesty possible? It is possible because most players do not *realize* their matches are being handicapped. And those of us who know of handicapping fail to see its implications. Overwatch's own designers seem to have missed the point. Overview Overwatch's designers say they "balance" matches with MMR. The system sorts the twelve players from each match into teams, based on the merit each player has shown in matches past. Matchmaking uses merit-tracking algorithms (MMR) to keep matches from being 'uneven.' Principal Overwatch Designer Scott Mercer explains: "When the matchmaker creates a match, it determines the % chance for each team to win based on the match it made. The VAST majority of matches are usually near to 50% (especially if you're a player closer to median skill rating and you're not in a group). When we do put you in a match that we know isn't a 50/50, we adjust your SR gain or loss based on your calculated change of winning. "We model the synergistic effects of players being together in a group. Based upon the data we see in groups, we predict the win % for each team. We try to match similar sized groups together. "The amount of MMR (and SR) you go up or down isn't simply a matter of whether you won or lost, and what was your predicted chance of winning. There's a couple of other things at work. One is the matchmaker's confidence in what your MMR should be. Play a lot of games, it gets more certain. Don't play Overwatch for a while, it gets less certain. You go on a large win or loss streak, it gets less certain. The more certain the matchmaker is about your MMR, the less your MMR will change in either direction based on a win or loss. "We also do evaluate how well you played the heroes you used in a match. The comparison is based on historical data of people playing a specific hero (not medals, not pure damage done), and we've done a lot of work to this system based on the community's feedback. "While it's a minor factor compared to wins/losses (The best way to increase your SR is still to play together and win as a team!), doing so does help us determine your skill more accurately and faster." -- https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20749737390#post-3 However In Quick Play, we do not count wins and losses as we do in Competitive Play. We do not stake our rank and reputation on a number, like we do with SR. And MMR skews everyone's SR. Because if you are a *relatively* skilled player for your SR, handicapping/MMR makes your teams worse than they would be on average, by random chance. Semantics – "Balance" vs. Handicap This discussion has a fulcrum, a single word it turns around. A word that Blizzard has chosen incorrectly, misappropriated from the design parlances of casual, non-competitive games. The word is “balance,” which is actually handicapping in the context of a competitive game. Dictionary.com defines a handicapped contest as one in which “certain disadvantages or advantages are placed upon competitors to equalize their chances of winning.” For example in old Quebec (French Canada), parishioners had a tradition of racing home from church in horse-drawn sleighs or wagons, which they would handicap by placing different numbers and sizes (weights) of passengers in either vehicle. That’s an example of a *friendly competition* where handicapping is appropriate, because the important thing isn’t who wins the race; it’s the closeness of the race and the fun to be had along the way. The race itself is merely a pretense for a good time. Any scoring that took place between drivers would be in jest. That is what some of us expect from a game mode like Quick Play. But players expect Competitive Play to be different. We have a "Skill Rating" (SR) that ticks up or down when we win or lose. That number is both our reputation and our right to compete with other players of our caliber. Handicapping makes light of that number and, in turn, it makes light of Competitive Overwatch players. When you play Competitive Overwatch you may be a horse pulling your team along, or you may be a passenger just along for the ride. And the handicapping system might designate you as such correctly or incorrectly. But those designations happen to determine the nature of every match you play. This is where the difference between individual and team competition comes in. Players participate in matches as teams, but they participate in the SR system as individuals. Handicapping teams is not the same as treating individuals fairly in the SR system. Blizzard wrongly conflates those ideas, distorting players' very notion of what fair competition is, and what they are doing in Competitive Play. Blizzard says that handicapping/balancing matches makes them fair for competitive players, and that is false. “Forced 50% win rate” When players talk about this, they are trying to talk about handicapping. An argument against handicapping has already taken place in the Overwatch community, based on vague terms and phrases that do not address the problem. Without *clear* terms to inform the discussion, players have turned away from it like a losing battle. But ‘handicapping’ is a real gaming term that many players understand. It is a word with history, meaning, and a proper definition. I bring you the word 'handicapping' as a banner to rally under. I urge you players: use this word to understand what MMR truly is, to frame your own discussions, and petition Blizzard for Competitive Play that is *free* of handicapping. I have a long argument to make, but my case is simple. Anyone with basic understanding of game theory – any Overwatch player – can grasp it. Case in point In every match, MMR tells matchmaking which players are relatively strong and which players are relatively weak. The MMR/handicapping system does not put all of the strongest or weakest players on either team (6 v 6) because it predicts that as a one-sided match. Instead, matchmaking ensures that both teams have about 3 strong players and 3 weak players. If one or two players from either team are real standouts (for good or ill), the ratio of strong and weak players might be closer to 2:4 or even 1:5, on either team. The degree of difference in skill between players is different in every match. But MMR picks up on every discernible difference between players. According to those differences in player skill, matchmaking arranges the teams and effectively handicaps matches, with no regard for individual players' SR, outside of the 1,000 unit range. So what's the problem? These kinds of matches are *unproductive by design;* they consistently prove as little as possible about the relative skill of the players participating. When matchmaking uses MMR to mix strong players with weak players, it guarantees in every match that some strong players will move down in rank, and some weak players will move up. Hypothetically speaking, the most *productive* match is one where all 6 of the strongest players are on one team and all 6 of the weakest players are on the other. Because in the win/lose result, the strongest players all gain SR and the weakest players all lose SR. Even an impartial matchmaking system would not produce this type of match all of the time. But MMR/handicapping turns it into a unicorn. MMR circumvents the natural selection process that is supposed to be taking place in Competitive Play. It makes the SR system inefficient, stagnant, and keeps the SR system from sorting players according to their merit. Evidence of handicapping Here are three simple things you can observe for yourself, which show how matchmaking and MMR handicap your matches: 1) Group and queue for matches with other players who you know are good at Overwatch. You will see that your wait times for matches scale up in direct proportion to how good you are, and how many of you are in the group. While there are other groups available to play at your collective *SR level,* matchmaking takes time to seek a group with an equal *MMR profile.* 2) Win matches as a group, and you will see your wait times increase from match to match. Matchmaking delays your games in order to handicap them, based on your group's record. Again, there are other groups available to play at your collective *SR level,* but matchmaking takes time to seek a group with an equal *MMR profile.* 3) Note the spread of player experience (portrait color, stars) across teams, when you join matches in small groups or solo queue. You will see the teams in each game have roughly the same number of experienced and inexperienced players. The matchmaking system arranges teams this way to handicap matches. It's relative Whether or not you sense the skewing of your matches depends on how good you are, as a team player, and where you find your SR rank to be. But if you are a relatively skilled player for your SR, then handicapping/MMR is designed to make every match difficult for you, specifically. It sounds like a persecution fantasy, but it's patently real. Fighting your own shadow Under MMR's influence, every player has to 'fight at their weight' in every match, regardless of SR standing. Handicapping/MMR ensures that every standout player finds a doppelganger or a *set* of players on the enemy team who are able to counteract them. This might sound fair-handed, but let me explain why it's not. Suppose your SR is low for your skill level, and you are the best one of twelve players in a match. In that case, handicapping/MMR singles you out by placing the second, third, and even fourth-best players in the match on the enemy team. Hence you, like a baited bear, must counteract their joint efforts. That becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. The harder you try — the more you kill, heal, and play the objective — the more skilled opponents you will be *faced with* in your next match...the more skilled teammates you will be *separated from.* The challenge of the game is literally guaranteed to ramp up, whether or not you win your present match; whether you climb or fall in the SR system; as long as you try your hardest. It is not enough to be good, to climb in SR. MMR follows you from match to match, figuring out how good you are. Then it informs matchmaking, which forces you to be better than *yourself* if you want to advance. In this way, you can experience the same difficulty playing at most competitive ranks, regardless of how good you are. From a game design perspective, this seems like a magic formula, a dream. But from a player's perspective, it is a nightmare. Handicap favors inexperienced players If you are an experienced player (with one or more stars of experience), you have a strong interest in MMR's removal from matchmaking. MMR ensures that players of similar experience will be distributed evenly across teams. Again, this might sound fair-handed but let me explain why it's not. If you are the most experienced player in a match, handicapping/MMR teams you with the most inexperienced player in the match while placing the second, third, and even fourth-most experienced players to oppose you on the enemy team. It is inexperienced players who benefit from that arrangement, and experienced players who suffer. You may deny the correlation of experience and skill. Why then, does matchmaking never place a slew of experienced players against a slew of inexperienced players? Is it interesting to see the outcome of such a match, or is it *no contest?* Why doesn't handicapping/MMR allow those matches to take place? Devalued experience Inexperienced/unskilled players think they are being tested by placement matches and regular competitive matches in the same way that more experienced/skilled players are being tested. So a player with less than one star of experience assumes that they are equal to all players at their SR level, regardless of experience. It does not occur to inexperienced players that they have arrived at their SR standing through the assistance of a handicap. And who can blame them? The handicapping/MMR system is hidden, after all. But it is not fair to experienced players that they should be forced to contribute to the success of less experienced players. New players may have a right to prove themselves in Competitive Play. But they do not have a right to be braced by veterans in every match, and escorted to victory. Handicapping has caused millions (billions?) of pointless arguments between experienced players and newbies who will not accept their advice or command. New players deride experienced players for not being ranked higher, for all their hours of practice. And since newbies and vets alike are unaware of the handicapping system, the situation suggests to everyone that experience counts for nothing. Classification without consent It's not only about the number of stars under your portrait. If you are the best healer, tank, or DPS in a match then MMR brands you as such, and pits you against the next best player in your hero class. This might sound fair-handed, but... If you step out of one role to fill another, your team is likely to crumble because no one on your team matches your proficiency with the hero/class you switched from. This effectively locks you into a role without your knowledge or consent. And it ensures that if you are proficient with many (or all) of Overwatch's hero classes and characters, you gain no advantage from it. Handicapping/MMR discourages *groups* and *teamwork* By punishing outstanding performances, handicapping/MMR catches the most effective Overwatch strategies in its snare. When a group chooses characters who complement one another, they create 'statistical anomalies’ that the MMR system ‘corrects for’ in its 'matchmaking problem.’ When a coherent group presents itself, the MMR system *painstakingly* matches them against equally coherent groups, despite the availability of less coherent groups of the same size, at the same SR level. Not only does that mean prohibitively long wait times for everyone involved, it costs such coherent groups the advantage they are supposed to have, by working out strategies and vetting their teammates. MMR costs coherent groups countless opportunities to apply strategy against opponents who do not. It negates the advantage a coherent group would naturally have, under an *impartial* matchmaking system. Conversely, handicapping/MMR coddles players who ignore the principles of good strategy, sheltering them from competition with coherent groups they should be facing in their SR level. MMR makes Overwatch the *antithesis* of a team-based game – a running contradiction to the idea that group cohesion and synergy mean anything at all. Handicapping/MMR promotes 'DPS instalock' Healing and tanking are desperately ineffective when you have unskilled/inexperienced players filling the other roles. Solo players know this intuitively, and that is why we start every match pleading for sanity with 3-5 DPS instalocks. Despise these players if you will, but they are acting in their best interest under the handicapping/MMR system. When a player climbs in SR by playing DPS well, they are essentially locked in to that role. That is because handicapping/MMR ensures that equally skilled DPS players in subsequent matches will be placed on the enemy team, so changing to tank or heal leaves the enemy DPS unchecked. The leaderboards are absolutely dominated by DPS players (https://masteroverwatch.com/leaderboards/pc/us). Is it because DPS characters are intrinsically more effective than tanks and healers? Or is it because they have an advantage in the handicapping/MMR system? E-Sports above all Blizzard wants to use Competitive Play as a mere filtration system for people with *fast reflexes,* nothing else. It is a casting call for E-Sports celebrities, not a proving system for team players who understand the game; the players who are truly the best at the game of Overwatch. Those experienced and skilled players are buried in the middle tiers, the dumping grounds into which they are swept by a never-ending stream of new Overwatch players. New players have no problem qualifying for gold and higher, because of the boost that handicapping/MMR gives them. Meanwhile smurf account buyers scramble over us, like drowning swimmers, clawing their way up by pushing the rest of us down. They are gaming the MMR system that Blizzard has created by giving them more money. Is it any surprise that Blizzard is complacent in that behaviour? What this means for players It violates the faith we all have had in Competitive Play; that we can climb the ranks of the SR system by showing merit as team players. SR is our only form of rank and reputation but when we show true merit, an invisible hand guides us to challenges that are virtually assured to destroy our SR, our rank and reputation. Performance-based SR... ...is Blizzard's feeble attempt to restore the meritocracy of Competitive Play; to offset the profound SR-skewing effects of handicapping/MMR. It is a tacit admission that the SR system fails its *supposed function* of ranking players according to their skill. Performance-based SR means that Overwatch players do not share the goal of *victory* with their teammates. The most cynical and well-informed players give up on victory to *game the system.* One-tricking... ...is a natural consequence of performance-based SR. When players see that they are being graded on their own stats rather than the win/lose result of the match, it demotivates them from being real team players. Instead of doing what is best for their team's chance of winning the match, they start doing what is best for their own chances of racking up big numbers in damage, healing, kills, etc. Reverse karma MMR works like reverse karma. It restricts our mobility in the SR system. If you're interested to watch your SR trend up and down, and figuring out the strategies involved in your losses and victories, then no governing system outside of SR and your own group selection can serve your interest. Double standard In SR/MMR, we have a set of systems that judge us on the performance of our team as a whole (SR), but divide us on our individual merit (MMR) at every instance. It is a galling and obvious double standard. While SR decides the level we are allowed to compete at, the majority of us are stuck in a quagmire we cannot climb out from, because rising up makes you a target for handicapping/MMR to strike down. Artificial equality A handicapped match is much more likely to hang in the balance, making it more exciting for players. But by handicapping a match, MMR makes its outcome intrinsically unrelated to the skill of the individual players and groups participating. It is absurd to increase/decrease SR based on the wins/losses of handicapped matches. No Competitive Overwatch player has a *fair chance* of winning a match according to their skill. Because of handicapping/MMR, unskilled/inexperienced players are more likely to win and skilled/experienced players are more likely to lose. Stop worrying and love the MMR? Once you realize what MMR is doing to your odds in Competitive Play, it is still possible to enjoy yourself. If you think you can rank up, you just have to recognize that you are guaranteed to be teamed up with a statistically unlikely number of inferior players in every match. But don’t ignore that fact, or you’ll go insane. Handicapping/MMR defies pattern recognition Pattern recognition is our birthright as human beings, who evolved to use the very stars for navigation. Our brains have grown to run advanced heuristics in wars, and heated battles against enemy tribes. Games like Overwatch are allegories for war, which we play to enjoy our faculty of pattern recognition. But handicapping/MMR circumvents the *math* that we would all use to understand Overwatch and *game* an impartial matchmaking system. It contradicts the calculations that we all make, based on *reasonable assumptions* about how matchmaking works. We assume that matchmaking is impartial, but that is not true. Invisible standards Competitive Play systematically deceives players on a grand scale. When the *fact* of handicapping and the *metrics* of MMR are hidden from players, it takes away players' ability to rely on their own senses. When matches are handicapped without our understanding or even our awareness, it debases our perception of the game we're playing. Worst game-design ethics since World of Warcraft Blizzard is violating the right we have as players to see the factors affecting our matches. Handicapping/MMR is the *dominant factor* of Competitive Play, and it is completely hidden from view. That raises ethical issues about consent, because most players would not engage in "Competitive Play" if they understood handicapping/MMR. Nothing in Overwatch's user-interface even mentions "Match Making Rating," nor does Blizzard define it elsewhere. Blizzard fails to warn players about handicapping, leaving them to labor under a delusion: that altruism is rewarded. Cause of toxicity Much toxicity in the Overwatch community stems from cognitive dissonance (a kind psychological distress) caused by handicapping/MMR. When a player succeeds in one match, they are challenged in their next match *by design.* Wondering "What changed?" they can attribute the sudden challenge to unrelated factors by mistake. They may blame their own character selection and actions, or those of their team. I've been toxic in my own matches. I've chastised many of my own teams who didn't deserve it (especially new/inexperienced players). Because they weren't meant to play with me in the first place; they were destined for lower ranks just as I was destined for higher ones. But handicapping/MMR intervened to everyone's misfortune. Handicapping/MMR renders the SR system meaningless, and leaves us without means to differentiate from each other. We are not in a proving ground, we are in a mill, churning inexorably with players who are not our equals. I sound immodest, but I face this problem with tens of thousands of players like me. It is a massive and systemic problem. But it's a simple problem, and it's Blizzard's to fix if they have the mind. "Soylent Green is made of people!" The most insidious aspect of MMR is the way it uses people. It uses the appointment of your teammates and adversaries to create your handicap, suppressing your chance of being teamed up with players who are *as good* as you are. So your teammates are guaranteed to be your inferiors or superiors, on a per-match basis, while your enemies are guaranteed to be your equals. What a grand, dystopian future we live in. The travesty Dictionary.com defines a travesty as "a grotesque or debased likeness or imitation; an artistic burlesque of a serious work or subject, characterized by ludicrous incongruity of treatment, or subject matter." Handicapping/MMR makes Competitive Overwatch a travesty because it forces us, in every match, to play against those who are *most* like ourselves and with those who are *least* like ourselves. Want a teammate who is as good at Hero X as you are? MMR prevents you from ever meeting them. At every instance, in every match, MMR ensures you can only be that player's adversary; never their ally. And if you group with such a player, MMR prevents you from finding a fair match to play in. Conflict of interest If you would still defend the handicapping/MMR system as ‘fair-handed,’ reader, consider your principal interest as a Competitive player – victory. Now consider these questions: When you queue for a match, you deserve the same *chance* of victory as any other player in the match, do you not? Would you accept a system that *explicitly* subtracts from your chance of victory, and adds to your chance of defeat? If you are an experienced player, do you accept that you must babysit the inexperienced? If you are an inexperienced player, do you want to be babysat? This is about more than just "victory." It is about the poetry of group synergy, of lucky random encounters. The uncanny lack of that poetry is what players feel when they rail about incompetency and toxicity in their team mates. Blizzard redacted that poetry when they imputed the handicapping/MMR system to Competitive Play. Competitive players have an interest in fair, impartial matchmaking; randomly assigned teams of players with similar SR. We want to win or lose *according to* our merit not *despite* our merit. If that makes for short matches, then so be it. It's about money for Blizzard Blizzard has an opposing *commercial* interest in making matches as drawn out as possible; they designed the handicapping/MMR system to ensure that every match is a struggle. And it comes directly at the cost of players' mobility in the SR system. The handicapping/MMR system does not make Competitive Play fair or even fun for long-term players. It makes matches protracted and desparate. Because that is what gives the appearance, the illusion of fairness, regardless of the truth. And it leads to repeat sales from Smurf account buyers who try to eschew the system. The impetus When Blizzard took the decision to apply MMR in Competitive Overwatch, I think they were driven by fear. They feared that players would reject their game as unfair when they had one-sided matches, and especially when they had one-sided losses. Thinking that MMR worked for Quick Play and apprehensive of the ‘negative customer experience,' that could result without MMR's careful stage-work, they put it in Competitive Play and we've been suffering for it ever since. Blizzard warped their own game to suit their business interests (or the business interests of other stakeholders) at the cost of user experience, ultimately failing Overwatch players. Déjà vu Let me share an eerily similar experience that I had, arguing for sanity on another game developer's forum: Thread 1 https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/suggestion-make-revival-count-for-tdm-match-points.665745 Thread 2 https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/tdm-score-system-problem-points-for-knockdown-instead-of-death.765853 In those threads, I used common sense and spoke out against user-experience problems that profoundly concerned player reputation and the fairness of scoring. These are team-based online games with great production value, just like Overwatch. I doubt that many Overwatch players know ‘War of the Vikings’ and ‘War of the Roses.’ But they feature the same control-point-objective-based gameplay structure that Overwatch does. They compare on many levels, though the developer and publisher are both less moneyed than Blizzard/Activision. Just as with Overwatch’s MMR/handicapping problem, the problems affecting War of the Vikings and War of the Roses: Were insidiously hidden from players by misleading user-interface Defied users' assumptions of the game they were playing Punished altruistic behavior, and rewarded selfish behavior in players Confused players' intuitions, causing cognitive dissonance Fractured the correlation of team-based strategy and victory I proved the players' overwhelming consensus in those threads by gathering votes, just as I have done here. The game developer, and their publisher, decided not to fix the problems. Why do so many game designers and publishers fail to recognize the principles of fair competition, in the "competitive" games they give us players? It is because the creation process inevitably falls prey to greed; to blind, slavering stakeholder interest, all forms of commercial interest. Marketability trumps integrity behind closed doors. The cholicy baby Overwatch players themselves are to blame when they tell Blizzard that one-sided matches are "unfair" or "boring." In handicapping/MMR, Blizzard is trying to give us what we want. But a good parent knows the difference between wants and needs. Players *want* engaging matches, but *need* to compete in an equitable system. Realistic expectations One-sided matches are a perfectly natural thing, and we would see a lot of them at the onset of an impartial matchmaking system. But at the end of a great sorting process of *natural selection,* we might have clearly established leagues and be able to expect some standards of play, outside of the bottom rank. If you were playing in a baseball league, would you expect every game to be hotly contested? Would you expect teams to swap their strongest and weakest players to even the odds of every match? Once again The MMR system is *handicapping system* that is hidden from players, rigging their every match and dampening their best efforts. Instead of experiencing natural winning/losing streaks, we get a carefully monitored slow-drip, with victory and defeat in as nearly equal measure as matchmaking can arrange. The effects of the system are confusion, incumbency, and a completely incoherent narrative for every player's career. It detaches a player's merit from their rank and reputation. We Competitive players want to deepen our knowledge of Overwatch and keep discovering its nuances by playing with our peers. But we can't find our peers in a system that *decides the nature* of every match we play by pitting the best of us against each other. My proposal For the SR system to really work, it must be the only system. Teams should not be "balanced" based on anything besides their SR and their group size. Throw all the handicapping/MMR metrics out the window. To Blizzard We know you worked hard on the handicapping/MMR system, Blizzard, but you can't justify its existence in principle. You're effectively forcing your best players to babysit your worst players, which is questionable. But you are also deceiving players by hiding the handicapping system from them, and that makes your game like a dirty casino. Only when matchmaking is *impartial* can the win/lose outcome of an individual player's matches be reflection their skill. Until then, Competitive Overwatch will be as a rigged slot machine, causing cognitive dissonance for all who play it. You need to consider the rights of your players, and decide what side of history you want to be on. To the incumbents Many Overwatch players (let’s say Platinum and above) have reason to be satisfied with handicapping/MMR. I haven't been Platinum for several seasons, but I know that the most *successful* Overwatch players are lone-wolf DPS types. Many incumbents have reason to fear the change I am suggesting, because it would reveal they are not as good at Overwatch as they think they are, or as the SR system suggests them to be. Their leadership and teamwork would be proven weak by an impartial matchmaking system, which would expose them to real competition. These are folks like Blizzard's precious cadre of "professional players," who have been allowed to earn their titles under a false competitive system. I see the conflict of interest for them as well. But I hope they'll prove their smarts by taking my side. Let us see what Overwatch really is, together :) Other forums If you would like to discuss this topic on Reddit's Overwatch forum, go here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/7ihrdh/why_handicapping_mmr_is_wrong_for_competitive_play This discussion is not limited to Competitive Play. All experienced Overwatch players have an interest in removing MMR as a handicapping system. If you want to contribute to the Quick Play discussion go here: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759211324 Appeal for action The handicapping/MMR system prevents good team players from transcending the ranks of the bad. It uses experienced Overwatch players as training wheels for the inexperienced, rather than allowing us to separate as we would naturally. Players, please speak up for yourselves. Complain to Blizzard and send them to this thread. Send other players here to comment and vote. Blizzard wronged us by designing Competitive Overwatch this way; let's prove we are aware of that and demand better from them. Player consensus Blizzard, look at the like-to-dislike ratio on this post. Look at these posts from other players about the problem of handicapping/MMR in Competitive Overwatch: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759260419 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20761746846 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20760986330 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759301615 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759340096 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759229380 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759209261 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759279876 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759379241 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759209922 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759159335 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759278600 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20758216593 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759278427 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759278554 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757355972 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20755546064 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759289719 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759298451 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759377774 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757305767 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759149294 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759239213 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753337220 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759279880 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759351269 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759359184#post-11 https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759359184#post-11 Players, tell Blizzard that you want fair Competitive Overwatch. Make your own thread on the topic and I will index it here. Include "#faircompetitiveoverwatch" in your post so I can find it.Cuthbert990 Feb 20
Feb 20 Ventilating your frustrations should have a separate forum. People that only come here to ventilate their frustrations, and say that this game is dead, and bla bla bla could have a separate forum, so this one is for discussion about hero balances. I mean, you have 1 hero change post, two meme change post(nerf Moira or revert Mercy), and like 4 "this game is horrible, MM ruined my life" posts. What about we create a new forum for that kind of post? Maybe "crying corner" it's a fitting name.Djinn2 Feb 20
Feb 20 Diamond team looking for tank players Hello im a GM coach looking for tank player (pc EU) The team you would be signing up for here is called delta, but if you get in, you would have a chance to join team Alpha. (please stick with it, bit complicated. Team Alpha is a team that will be formes as soon as delta is finished. then we will take all the best players from multiple different teams, including delta, and use them to form Alpha. So if you get into delta youll have a chanse to get into Alpha. Alpha is going to be pretty serious and youll have to have a bit of motivation and be willing to work on getting better. Delta on the other hand is going to be more laid back, for players that want to chill and have fun with teammates. if you want in on either of the teams, please reply to this post with your sr and your mains, and ill send you an invite to our discord. if you have any questions, or if anything is unclear, please askGlatz015 Feb 20
Feb 20 Disgusting wintraders What is being done about win trading? Got into a game on anubis where we held them on 2nd with no % We stormed them on the first point, then our widow proceeds to be afk standing next to the first point. Once we all died; the enemy lucio would come out and give her a free headshot, we thought our widow got a pick and then rush the point again, killing several everytime, but every single team fight (about 6 btw) our widow proceeds to stand at the back of the point afk (not scoped in, not in line of sight to the point). Once we start losing dying in the 5v6 anubis stall fest, the widow would start moving again and wait for the lucio to walk out of 2nd point and give another free kill. This went on for the whole game, only started once the enemy team was scared to lose, so probably messaged the guy to wintrade. absolute master scum. Losing to diamonds and resorting to wintradingHeifer0 Feb 20
Feb 20 SR Carry Over Anyone else really getting sick of their SR carrying over from one season to another?Glonex26 Feb 20
Feb 20 Loss of SR with leavers. why, on this planet, after so long, do you still lose sr when someone leaves. Its actually the dumbest thing that has ever been in a game, probably in history. overwatch is a game where winning a 5v6 is NEXT to impossible, yet you still lose just as much sr as you would if you lost a normal game.HighSniper10 Feb 20
Feb 20 Forced Loss Streaks are a problem So I have been in bronze the past 4 seasons and I always get forced loss streaks. I have a less than .7 KD I play mcree and I leave voice when everyone else is toxic. Forced loss streaks are a problem that needs to be fixed. Actually though this is a stupid complaint. Loss streaks happen no matter what game you are in. If you get a thrower 5 games in a row that is UNLUCKY. not forced. Just report and move on. I have dropped 300 SR recently but I never felt like it was anyone elses fault but mine. Seagull summed it up pretty well when he said that if you are good at the game and actully just unlucky you will climb.Tonyztank0 Feb 20