DVA is literally SO bad that I can't comprehend it.

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I love D.Va despite her flaws, and I think learning to play her flaws and all is going to give us a huge leg up once they fix them.

That said if you get a good healer backing up a D'Va you can kick some serious !@# or hold down what your escorting super well.
I feel like a large part of the problem is that her kit doesn't work well together.

You have to use your boost to get in close, because your guns require short range. Meaning it is down when you first start firing at someone. You might've gotten an environmental kill or at the least some ramming damage at first, but that's done and you are committed to wherever you landed due to D.Va's slowness.

Now that you're firing on them and the enemy realizes a sudden D.Va has appeared, they're turning to face you and since you're right in front of them, it's free crit headshot time.

At that point it's a gamble because you're also pretty close for potential headshots, sometimes D.Va's guns are good enough to murder something. But usually the enemy is smart enough to use their own mobility to increase the distance. And once that happens a second or so later, your damage is now almost non-existant.

You can try burst firing, firing a little, stepping forward, firing more, trying to stay close to them while your boost is still on cooldown... but they're generally faster, and will probably eat through your HP faster than you can pursue. This is also the best time to use Defense Matrix, if you're too far away to deal decent damage but can't boost yet. But if they're remotely smart, they'll be running from you just as you're trying to give chase.

At that point, they'll probably be obliterating your meka, since most heroes can attack and move pretty well. (Genji, S76, McCree's roll, etc.)

Once your boost is back, then you have choices to make: Can you ram them off of any ledges for a desperate kill? Or do you turn and boost away for a medpack? Or do you use your next boost for another ram attack / closing the gap to try to deal more damage and see if you can finish the fight?

Using Defense Matrix is otherwise pointless unless they try to ult. You can't shoot during it, so basically they might as well stop firing and you both get to stare at each other for the duration. It only helps if you have a teammate nearby who will kill your target for you. Otherwise, you cannot outDPS them before they'll kill your meka.

Defense Matrix is great for stopping incoming fire if you have teammates behind you, but as many people say, D.Va is for flanking and your mobility can get you into situations where you won't always have friends with you. Without a friend, Defense Matrix doesn't gain you anything other than being alive for a few more seconds. You also can't use it as a desperate escape measure because it doesn't cover your rear while trying to boost away.

That whole scenario to me sounds pretty... ineffective as a team member.
D.Va is extremely deadly and effective in good hands.
I find it odd that a stop sign's pole can stop a sub-atomic blast from a destabilized hard light construct..... Physics plz.
06/22/2016 03:32 AMPosted by Onu
I feel like a large part of the problem is that her kit doesn't work well together.

You have to use your boost to get in close, because your guns require short range. Meaning it is down when you first start firing at someone. You might've gotten an environmental kill or at the least some ramming damage at first, but that's done and you are committed to wherever you landed due to D.Va's slowness.

Now that you're firing on them and the enemy realizes a sudden D.Va has appeared, they're turning to face you and since you're right in front of them, it's free crit headshot time.

At that point it's a gamble because you're also pretty close for potential headshots, sometimes D.Va's guns are good enough to murder something. But usually the enemy is smart enough to use their own mobility to increase the distance. And once that happens a second or so later, your damage is now almost non-existant.

You can try burst firing, firing a little, stepping forward, firing more, trying to stay close to them while your boost is still on cooldown... but they're generally faster, and will probably eat through your HP faster than you can pursue. This is also the best time to use Defense Matrix, if you're too far away to deal decent damage but can't boost yet. But if they're remotely smart, they'll be running from you just as you're trying to give chase.

At that point, they'll probably be obliterating your meka, since most heroes can attack and move pretty well. (Genji, S76, McCree's roll, etc.)

Once your boost is back, then you have choices to make: Can you ram them off of any ledges for a desperate kill? Or do you turn and boost away for a medpack? Or do you use your next boost for another ram attack / closing the gap to try to deal more damage and see if you can finish the fight?

Using Defense Matrix is otherwise pointless unless they try to ult. You can't shoot during it, so basically they might as well stop firing and you both get to stare at each other for the duration. It only helps if you have a teammate nearby who will kill your target for you. Otherwise, you cannot outDPS them before they'll kill your meka.

Defense Matrix is great for stopping incoming fire if you have teammates behind you, but as many people say, D.Va is for flanking and your mobility can get you into situations where you won't always have friends with you. Without a friend, Defense Matrix doesn't gain you anything other than being alive for a few more seconds. You also can't use it as a desperate escape measure because it doesn't cover your rear while trying to boost away.

That whole scenario to me sounds pretty... ineffective as a team member.


You have a point here.. what if they renewed the boost on a kill like Genji's dash and upped the ramming damage a little. Oh and while I'm at it applied the defence matrix to the rear too.
@Rekuul: "With her 360 no-scope critbox"

Best line in this thread.

My two cents: She needs a smaller crit box and a movement speed buff while firing. Everything else is ok. She's meant to be a hybrid tank/offense and she is fun to play if you play her like that. These changes would enhance that roll and not try to move her play style in a different direction.

Edit: quote
06/21/2016 02:15 PMPosted by Citronvand
06/21/2016 02:11 PMPosted by Jamez
..it not meant to actually kill people ., but rather scatter them


If that were true, there wouldn't be a achievement for getting 4 kills with the ultimate.


Your argument doesnt make sense because achievements are meant to be harder ....

But I think the best solution to try would be to remove the headshot hitbox on her while IN MECH.

If you wanted you could also have a weak spot on the back instead the head, would be also an option.
06/21/2016 02:11 PMPosted by SpritePR
My games with gold damage and eliminations would disagree with that statement. I will agree she needs to be buffed in some way however.


Eliminations could mean just touching someone who dies, which is easy when you have no reload and unlimited ammo.
D.Va is one of my best character so a buff will help me a lot :P. I guess it seems bad to some people that havent played it much.
I don't think she's necessarily as terrible as she's made out to be. She definetly is not a replacement for Reinhardt and I'm not even sure I'd qualify her as a proper tank. D.va is definetly a hero I'd only pick if we already have all our bases covered. A lot of her abilities are more difficult to use, too, or rather, require proper timing.

Defensive matrix can be amazing or absolutely useless, depending on when you use it. In certain situations it is vastly superior to Reinhardt's shield (while in others it's not nearly as good, obviously).

Her ulti can be great to deny an area, I frequently use it to great effect to get the payload pushed that final inch in overtime (or to deny exactly that, if we're defense).

I feel she's also a bit hard to evaluate as it's pretty easy to get 3-4 gold medals (damage and the 2 elims and possibly objective time) with her without actually accomplishing much.

And finally: There was that one time a reinhardt charged me off a cliff as D.va (he had the distance so perfectly right that only I fell and he did not) and I just flew back up and bumped him off instead. That made my week.
Make her Mech have 200 Armor + 250 Shields, lower the cooldown on it's barrier by damage blocked (to a degree), give D.Va a damage immunity when she's jumping into her Mech again (shorten the animation time though). I think that would make her way more viable as a mobile harassing tank that doesn't get flat out annihilated, since she can regen some of her HP, block big attacks or group attacks more often while still not being too powerful offensively. Remember, it's a tank... there's already Roadhog and Zarya that do quite some damage and Reinhardt that blocks more than the rest, she'd fit in as connector then with more mobility, lower damage than the offensive tanks, but a higher block capacity. I feel combining her with Mei should also increase the potential of her quite a lot then.

If all of the above is too powerful, pick the parts that increase quality based on skill, rather than numbers.

And listen, I am a darn Widow main, I'd be OK with this... I don't even bash on your requests for more viability, I try to help my own counter... holy !@#$! :P

She'd still be distinct from Winston then by the way, because she can regen 250 shields without the use of her ultimate then, has an area denial ultimate with a sufficient potential for kills if combined with Zarya's ultimate or Mei's ultimate, giving you a new mech when your former one is basically destroyed (equals a complete refill of HP in a certain situation), and her gun is more effective than Winstons against tanks and turrets then. I'd consider that filling quite a few niches.
06/22/2016 06:58 AMPosted by TheOneNecris
I try to help my own counter


How do you manage to get countered, considering that you have 200hp and grappling hook with excellent range? Sleeping on the job?
06/22/2016 07:17 AMPosted by Piltmannen
06/22/2016 06:58 AMPosted by TheOneNecris
I try to help my own counter


How do you manage to get countered, considering that you have 200hp and grappling hook with excellent range? Sleeping on the job?


Heard about nerfs Sherlock? Know about the 12 seconds cooldown on the hook and the 5 seconds on D.Va's charge? That makes her double as mobile in terms of vertical and horizontal directions.

Did you hear snipers have to stay hardscoped now? Guess what that means to your overall awareness? What do you think happens, when I try to challenge the enemy Widow or healer, think I am taking a break in between, searching for more targets to shoot at, simultaneously?

Did you know that if D.Va is assigned to counter you, even if you shoot her, she's likely to use her barriers whilst boosting to you? Do you know that even when you destroyed her 400 HP Mech, there's still a mobile 150HP character running around shooting you with a high fire rate pistol?

Do you think Widows that take high positions or sniper spots to try and ambush the enemy or try to challenge aggressively always have a medic at their disposal?

Do you know what you're actually busy with when Hanzo or Mei are trying to shoot you simultaneously or Pharah is on the hunt for you?

Man... before you use your fingers to virtually point at me, how about you start thinking about that a 6vs6 objective game is not played out between a counter and a countered character?

Honestly, is it so hard to start thinking, before you start hating!?

Edit: Well, should have considered that you have never touched Widowmaker and haven't even played 25 hours yet. You probably also didn't have a lobby with 5 friends and got assigned an enemy lobby with 6 people (which more often than not are not 6 pubs), which the MMS likes to do. Honestly boy. Before you start badmouthing other people or making rash assumptions, you should consider that people might be speaking out of experience.
I honestly dont get how people think shes weak... she is very good if used correctly. She is great used like winston but counters some of the things winston is weak at like reaper and soldier
06/22/2016 08:04 AMPosted by TheOneNecris
how about you start thinking about that a 6vs6 objective game is not played out between a counter and a countered character?


Exactly what I'm talking about. At most DVa can force Widowmaker to abandon her elevated position. Widowmaker can grapple hook towards her teammates and keep sniping from there. This is nothing like counter-sniping Widowmaker or a Genji.
06/22/2016 08:34 AMPosted by Piltmannen
06/22/2016 08:04 AMPosted by TheOneNecris
how about you start thinking about that a 6vs6 objective game is not played out between a counter and a countered character?


Exactly what I'm talking about. At most DVa can force Widowmaker to abandon her elevated position. Widowmaker can grapple hook towards her teammates and keep sniping from there. This is nothing like counter-sniping Widowmaker or a Genji.


Often times you cannot really snipe, standing close to your team on most maps and with most setups. Your line of sight is gonna be broken or you rush into a contested area, basically from the frying pan into the fire.

Believe me, it's not as easy, as you make it out to be. I can tell you, my aim depends on my daily form, where I hit from between 40% to 70% of my shots, but my survival and dodging skills are always absolutely at their peak and if you have to decide to survive but be of no use or to die, more often than not, you're forced to switch your character, which in my book means, you have been countered.

Edit: Anyways, that's not really belonging into this thread. This thread is about what D.Va might need to be more viable, isn't it?
I see a lot of differing opinions on this. I play a lot of D Va and have done really well with her against low to average skilled players. These are players that don't have amazing aim, have less than stellar map awareness, and lack coordination with their teammates. This is the perfect environment for D.Va. This allows you to easily flank them and kill them before they can kill you.

However, when I play on the same team with my friend who clearly has high MMR, I'm put into games against players with dramatically higher skill. Against these players, I will be popped out of my mech almost instantly then get swatted before I even have chance to move as zero suit D.Va. Flanking as a giant flying crit box is impossible against these teams because the moment they see you, the entire team will turn around and decimate you. Getting close to do damage is not possible and using your ult is worthless because either they will hide every time, or Reinhardt will block it. Trying to play on the frontlines is pointless because D.Va is terrible there (better to just be Reinhardt).

D.Va is just too easy to pop out of her Mech and her ultimate is a worse version of McCree's ultimate. Do something about the crit box and her ultimate and she will be viable at all skill levels.

Tldr: D.Va does well against uncoordinated low to average skill players, but is worthless against high skilled coordinated teams. Her ult needs to be changed and the giant crit box moved or decreased in size.
06/21/2016 02:05 PMPosted by zakar
Mostly because she loses 80% of her life instantly to random crossfire due to obscene hitboxes.

Making her hands down the lowest EHP hero in the game.
With the worst damage in the game.
And the worst ult in the game....

Her mech is so bad that even just her w/o her mech is almost an upgrade.
How did this even get past alpha?


I want to disagree with this but I can't. I love D.Va and I use her all the time but it's true.
To make it worse if you summon a mech it can be killed while you're getting in. You also lose your Call Mech ultimate charge if you die while in zero form. Which is lame too.
06/21/2016 02:05 PMPosted by zakar
Mostly because she loses 80% of her life instantly to random crossfire due to obscene hitboxes.

Making her hands down the lowest EHP hero in the game.
With the worst damage in the game.
And the worst ult in the game....

Her mech is so bad that even just her w/o her mech is almost an upgrade.
How did this even get past alpha?


It's funny because in the cinimatic shes flying around shooting guns

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