This is how the matchmaker works in Overwatch

General Discussion
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06/21/2016 08:34 AMPosted by PookyToo
06/21/2016 08:20 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan

    • Sometimes your wireless mouse runs out of batteries. (Why do you use a wireless mouse btw?)


My G602 is supposed to be great for a wireless mouse :(


I went through 3 of those G602 mice because the middle mouse button click wouldn't work after so many hours of gameplay. Turns out the middle mouse button is a normal problem with that mouse.

Since then, I've been using a wired G502 mouse with zero issues.
This is... way more in-depth than I thought it would be.

Thanks, Jeff. I'll stop making posts about MMR and steamrolls because you clearly know way more about what's going on.
The matchmaking is so pathetic that blizzard must answer in forums.
All that pile of words are useless, ur matchmaking is 50/50 ! u win 100% or u loose 100% NOTHING else.
The same matchmaking destroyed Heroes of the storm, turning the game into a bad joke....
06/21/2016 01:57 PMPosted by Noble
06/21/2016 01:44 PMPosted by Reaper
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Seriously, that should be pretty damning about the fact you made an anti-fun char. If enough people are avoiding a single player who mains them to avoid them to the point that they physically are getting huge queue times, it may be the char.


This, and I refuse to believe that player didnt know they were playing a hero that everyone hated and wasnt aware of the avoid system.

That being said, Widow is much better now. Still slightly unbalanced, But much better.


But then it also demands asking how many widow mains ended up with similar problems? I get that it was her obviously broken phase, but at the same time, One would think if MM were actually working that player would eventually find themselves against randoms that knew a thing or two about shutting that player down.

I don't want to support a feature that can deny a player the privilege to play via mass vote, but at the same time, one player not having fun is far more preferable to one player ruining a thousand player's fun. Still, this was during the quick scope era of Widowmaker. The situation is much better now.
Are you guys going to address the Pre-made vs Solo Q teams for competitive?
I think the fundamental problem here is how it is calculated.
OW is a team game, but the hard truth is that most of the time in pubs your team don't care about the objective. They just want to play COD inside OW. Sounds harsh and salty, and it is, but is the truth.
Example: Your team loses because like you are the only one pushing the payload 90% of the time and you lose MMR, is this fair ? Really ?
I don't think a team game is about only winning or losing, the system should look more things than just the end result, and I'm not talking about KDA, there is a lot of factors to be considered as well, and why not statistics around the objectives ?

Another thing is that the MMR has to be divided in group/solo, I'm not saying that everyone in the match should be solo exclusively, but the ranking has to be separated. Play as group and be carried 99% of the time don't mean your real skill, go on twitch and take a look at streamers when they play solo, their lose % skyrocket, most of them are extremaly skilled players, but their potential is multiplied when they are in a group that can play for their style.

Ok, it's an opinion, everyone is free to disagree :)
06/21/2016 08:20 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
As a result, we’ve disabled the Avoid system (the UI will go away in an upcoming patch).


Omg, why ;-; I liked that idea. Why not just make it that I can only avoid the players on my team, so I only avoid them for their toxicity and similar? Or that I'm not completely "avoiding" that player, just making him lower in priority, but if nothing is found, match me with him?

Jeff plox ;-;
06/21/2016 08:29 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
06/21/2016 08:26 AMPosted by Dzhezkov
Does my or my group members 'avoid player' or 'blocked player' list get factored in at all?


second to last paragraph answers your question. tl;dr - we're removing that system


I saw that bit in the PTR notes... and I understand the reasoning, but I'm all for an option other than "leave game" that will help me nudge the matchmaker system a slight bit towards my skill level (which is abysmal).

I feel like I hit category 4 more often than any other category. When I play with players that are far beyond my capabilities, it's not fun at all because I tend to spend the entire match dead. I've played several matches without even getting a full ult charge. When your spawn is camped, the only winning move is not to play and hide in the "+" part of the base. There's no surrender option, so I can either risk a leaver penalty or wait it out and pray that the matchmaker gods are with me and disassemble the teams at the end of the match.

One thing I noticed from being stubborn and not leaving games is that if you are in category 4 and don't leave, you are punished with 4 after 4 after 4 until enough players leave that the game is forced to find new groups. The same rock star team against you stays. The same people stay on the same teams. And that bit right there is what I'd like to poke at. What about a vote system to scramble teams. Not boot or anything, but just re-shuffle the two sides into each-other? randomize the lineups? So instead of avoid, I can "vote" to switch the teams about?

I just feel like for those of us who get stomped on a lot just need something. Removing the "avoid player" gives me no option except "leave" or spend my time hiding in the base. Neither actions are fun.
OW is not a game where you ignore the map objectives and then look at your K/D ratio to determine how good you are.


I don't think as many people are in agreement with this statement as they should be if they (we) are to continue playing and enjoying this game. This is, of course, anecdotal evidence I've gathered between level 1 and whatever I'm at now (113 or so, I think). Any tips or suggestions to get people to be more objective-focused would be appreciated.

What about team deathmatch or arena modes? Why not have an option for the most mindless, casual FPS game mode? A place where KDR is actually as meaningful as these players perceive it to be. It appears it is being phased out. I mean, the new DOOM doesn't even have a deathmatch mode. Personally, I would rather not have randoms on my team who are misguided about Overwatch's most basic elements. People who want to win despite themselves. I'm tired of watching my teammates simply go for kills despite the objective and losing the game as a result. Let these players fight it out in deathmatch. If I want to practice sniping or something, that's where I would do it. Not while an otherwise coordinated team attempts to secure the objective. I have found a solution to this in primarily playing with groups of friends, thankfully.
For example, we recently realized that “Avoid this player” was wreaking havoc on matchmaking. One of the best Widowmaker players in the world complained to us about long queue times. We looked into it and found that hundreds of other players had avoided him (he’s a nice guy – they avoided him because they did not want to play against him, not because of misbehavior). The end result was that it took him an extremely long time to find a match. The worst part was, by the time he finally got a match, he had been waiting so long that the system had “opened up” to lower skill players. Now one of the best Widowmaker players was facing off against players at a lower skill level. As a result, we’ve disabled the Avoid system (the UI will go away in an upcoming patch). The system was designed with the best intent. But the results were pretty disastrous.


So does this say anything about the quality of the hero? What's the difference between playing agaisn't someone who is actually cheating and someone who is good enough to make it as unfun to play agaisn't as someone who is cheating.

In no way someone should be able to play a certain hero that is capable of completely shutting down a game, it is extremely unfun to play agaisn't and the avoid feature was used extensively agaisn't widowmakers for the sole purpose that she is extremely unfun to play agaisn't.
Top post Jkap.

Just a quick few questions.

1. On your closed beta post of March 11th, you made the statement:

"We try to put a person who has lost many times in a row against players he/she is more likely to beat. We can't always guarantee that win however".

See post here: http://www.overking.com/news/patch-march-10?from=%2F

Was this just a convoluted way of saying that you drop a player on a loss streak's MMR by a significant amount, hoping they'll start to run it back, or did you actually mean you put them in a game unbalanced in their favor? Clearly if it's the latter, there are people on the enemy team at a disadvantage in that scenario.

Does today's post suggest that what you posted on March 11 has been removed as an element of matchmaking?

2. Can you elaborate further on what you look at in regards to hero performance impacting MMR changes? Are we talking DPM averages, KDA averages...what?

I suspected this was the case very early on in beta, and posted about it sometime in March. The reason I ask (and that I was always pretty sure this was the case) is that for much of closed beta I had a pretty negative W/L (-30 or so) yet was always matched in to games against the very best players.

3. Is this hero performance metric as impactful on your MMR as it appears to me? Can it essentially result in the matchmaker deciding that you were not at all to blame for a loss, or is it more a token amount. In other words, can hero performance turn a -20 into a -2 or only a -18?
06/21/2016 02:07 PMPosted by Littleman
06/21/2016 01:57 PMPosted by Noble
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This, and I refuse to believe that player didnt know they were playing a hero that everyone hated and wasnt aware of the avoid system.

That being said, Widow is much better now. Still slightly unbalanced, But much better.


But then it also demands asking how many widow mains ended up with similar problems? I get that it was her obviously broken phase, but at the same time, One would think if MM were actually working that player would eventually find themselves against randoms that knew a thing or two about shutting that player down.

I don't want to support a feature that can deny a player the privilege to play via mass vote, but at the same time, one player not having fun is far more preferable to one player ruining a thousand player's fun. Still, this was during the quick scope era of Widowmaker. The situation is much better now.


Yes, Im not going to lie. I used the system this way. If I wasnt having any fun playing against a player, on the avoid list they went. (There are a lot of Widows and Genji's on it, if I am going to be honest) but I liked having that choice of not playing against someone who was no fun to play against. And yes yes "Git gud" and all, but I am not good and Im fine with that.

What I will really miss is the ability to avoid all the Mei team wallers the the Sym's who would put teleporters to send teammates off the edge. Can we get a modified system to avoid teaming with players instead?
06/21/2016 10:01 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Quick clarification on "Avoid" feature:

For toxic or inappropriate players, continue to use the "Report" and "Block" features. Reporting really does work and eventually results in action being taken against those players. You're helping everyone if you use "Report". We'll continue to iterate and improve on features which help you get rid of toxic players from your experience.


The problem I have with this is, not every irritating behaviour is report-worthy. When players constantly spam "need healing" every time they take a scratch, or type "ez" after a nail-bitingly close match, that's definitely annoying! But I don't consider those reportable offenses, and I doubt Blizzard does either. "Avoid" was perfect for these players.

Facing a better player isn't a good reason for a player to abuse the "avoid" button, and I can see why Blizzard needed to address that. But abuse isn't a good reason to throw out the feature, either-- not when there are ways it could have been refined.

For example, what if player-avoidance only applied to your own team? That way, you can decide that you don't want a specific player as your teammate, but you can't prevent a great player from showing up as an opponent.

Or, what if clicking "avoid" required you to select a reason? That way it could function like a "soft report", not necessarily meriting a direct response from Blizzard unless a player gets avoided a lot.
06/21/2016 02:16 PMPosted by DJNPCFatBeat
What about a vote system to scramble teams. Not boot or anything, but just re-shuffle the two sides into each-other? randomize the lineups? So instead of avoid, I can "vote" to switch the teams about?


IMO, the game should do this automatically after a roll.

If one side simply does not stand a chance in hell, shuffle some players around and start the round over. Call it a bad match and negate the losses for the losers.

Hell, don't even negate the loss. Keep it on their records. Just re-balance the teams immediately and notify all involved that the teams have been re-balanced.

It's what TF2 has been doing for almost a decade, and it works.
06/21/2016 08:20 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan

A second factor we take into account is ping. We’re matchmaking people all over the world and we want to match people to the closest servers for the best play experience. In our second stress test, we had other things prioritized over ping-based matchmaking such as skill and time. For those of you who participated in that stress test, you’ll remember how terrible the game performance was on the first day as well as how “lit up” the forums were demanding that players be given an option of server choice. So now we prioritize ping for players. Some players live in challenging parts of the world when it comes to high speed data connections (I’m looking at you, Andes mountain range…) so it’s not perfect for everyone. But largely, most people get a really decent connection to our game servers. Matching players with wildly disparate pings also results in a higher frequency of undesirable side effects such as “getting shot behind walls”. Of course if you live in Houston, Texas and group with your buddy in Geneva, Switzerland, you’re now introducing uncertainty to our system that’s harder for us to deal with… but we allow it.


There are a lot of complains about the high ping we get in Latm forums, but it's just because it's recent, most of the people complaining were playing with 80ms-100ms and 2 weeks ago the ping went up to constant 200ms-250ms, so there is definitely a problem but no one from Blizzard staff can say for sure what the problem is, I sent a ticket and they just told me it's my ISP routing problem and Blizzard can't control it, but I'm fine playing other games and I'm not alone so definitely not my ISP.

We just want to play the game decently without the disadvantage of playing with 150ms against someone with 20ms. Brazil servers are a joke for all of us except them, most ISP's in Latm connect first to Miami then to Brazil which just increases the ping, so we don't even have a server for our region which is why everyone is complaining too, 10 million players and we don't have servers for all regions, League and Dota have servers in Latm and they are f2p. Please Blizzard add servers here.
06/21/2016 01:57 PMPosted by Noble
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Seriously, that should be pretty damning about the fact you made an anti-fun char. If enough people are avoiding a single player who mains them to avoid them to the point that they physically are getting huge queue times, it may be the char.


This, and I refuse to believe that player didnt know they were playing a hero that everyone hated and wasnt aware of the avoid system.

That being said, Widow is much better now. Still slightly unbalanced, But much better.


I used to think so, too. Then I met a Widowmaker the other day that could 2-shot me as Zarya anytime my barrier was on CD. They single handedly won their team the game. There were times they virtually soloed the entire team and just sat back so their allies could get on point.

I tried swapping to Winston and she head shot me 3 times before I could get to her perch. Tracer couldn't reach her perch. Genji did best but she'd force me to use deflect just getting to her, and pull off some mid-air grapple headshot while we were fighting so I won maybe 1/3rd of our exchanges. And the whole time I was chasing her my team was down a player, but until I got to her she got to stand up there and kill multiple people.

For 80% of the game, if my team stopped paying attention to the multiple perches she'd use, they had a high likelihood of instantly dying. They were often trapped behind pillars, unable to engage enemies right outside the point, because poking their head out would get it blown off. It would've taken 3 people to counter her. A Rein, a Genji, and probably another Widowmaker. but the enemy team comp made that setup pretty unviable.
06/21/2016 02:30 PMPosted by Arandmoor
06/21/2016 02:16 PMPosted by DJNPCFatBeat
What about a vote system to scramble teams. Not boot or anything, but just re-shuffle the two sides into each-other? randomize the lineups? So instead of avoid, I can "vote" to switch the teams about?


IMO, the game should do this automatically after a roll.

If one side simply does not stand a chance in hell, shuffle some players around and start the round over. Call it a bad match and negate the losses for the losers.


I'm ok with losing, even by a landslide... it just happens at an insane frequency because I'm not good at fps nor pvp games :/ I don't really judge fun on win or lose, I judge it on how active I got to be in the game. Just like now, first game of the day, was yet another 4. If my team can't complete the first objective, that's what I judge fun. As soon as the doors open and we already lost, what's the point in playing?

I don't know what the solution is, but I would like someway to escape the category 4 spiral I'm always stuck in.
...

This, and I refuse to believe that player didnt know they were playing a hero that everyone hated and wasnt aware of the avoid system.

That being said, Widow is much better now. Still slightly unbalanced, But much better.


I used to think so, too. Then I met a Widowmaker the other day that could 2-shot me as Zarya anytime my barrier was on CD. They single handedly won their team the game. There were times they virtually soloed the entire team and just sat back so their allies could get on point.

I tried swapping to Winston and she head shot me 3 times before I could get to her perch. Tracer couldn't reach her perch. Genji did best but she'd force me to use deflect just getting to her, and pull off some mid-air grapple headshot while we were fighting so I won maybe 1/3rd of our exchanges. And the whole time I was chasing her my team was down a player, but until I got to her she got to stand up there and kill multiple people.

For 80% of the game, if my team stopped paying attention to the multiple perches she'd use, they had a high likelihood of instantly dying. They were often trapped behind pillars, unable to engage enemies right outside the point, because poking their head out would get it blown off. It would've taken 3 people to counter her. A Rein, a Genji, and probably another Widowmaker. but the enemy team comp made that setup pretty unviable.


Good Widows/Genji's are just zero fun to play against IMO. Thats just my opinion, and I liked having the option of expressing my opinion by avoiding those players and personally having a much better experience because of it.
06/21/2016 08:34 AMPosted by Beni
We got a lvl 1 guy in our group full of 100+

There is no matchmaking


You completely ignored the post saying that. Level does not equal skill, if we follow MMR standards his skill is sitting at the start position, a position those level 100 people managed to hold or not go too far of. By playing and either losing or winning this level 1 will be placed on a different spot until he gets down or high up enough to be matched people of his skill level, he won't be sitting on the same ground as the players around him who probably started day 1 where people are still learning mechanics, so chances are he will drop, but that doesn't mean he can't go back up in the long run.
06/21/2016 10:01 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Quick clarification on "Avoid" feature:

For toxic or inappropriate players, continue to use the "Report" and "Block" features. Reporting really does work and eventually results in action being taken against those players. You're helping everyone if you use "Report". We'll continue to iterate and improve on features which help you get rid of toxic players from your experience.


I want to believe, but never have I seen a report system that did anything to stem the tide of toxics and !@#$%^-s : (

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