Winners Punished for Enemy leavers

Competitive Discussion
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Highly Rated
This needs to be fixed like today. You get punished if someone rage quits on the enemy team. The winners shouldn't be punished cause it really is impossible to climb when someone on the enemy team rage quits and you get no rating as the winner. Then when you lose you get shrekt. How this got past the devs I have no idea. Punishing the winning team it's absurd. People will get banned "eventually" is not a good excuse people are so spiteful they will quit just so you get nothing for winning I've seen it happen. This has to be top of the list with sudden death gone as well. THEN at least competitive will be somewhat bearable
This needs to be fixed like today. You get punished if someone rage quits on the enemy team.


Seconded. Emphatically.
We have a fix coming for this. Hopefully today. Worst case, this week.

We definitely don't want people getting shrekt.
07/06/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We have a fix coming for this. Hopefully today. Worst case, this week.

We definitely don't want people getting shrekt.
I love you thank you best news I heard all week HappyFace WinkyFace
07/06/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We have a fix coming for this. Hopefully today. Worst case, this week.

We definitely don't want people getting shrekt.


What was the reasoning behind punishing the winning team when someone leaves the game?
07/06/2016 11:55 AMPosted by Psiwolf
07/06/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We have a fix coming for this. Hopefully today. Worst case, this week.

We definitely don't want people getting shrekt.


What was the reasoning behind punishing the winning team when someone leaves the game?


I've always assumed it was because the system thought, after it became a 5v6 match, that you were the now-heavy favorite, were supposed to win, and rewarded you according to that belief.
I've heard that the same happens when you win even if the quitter is on your team? Like you lose a player, go on to play 5v6, win the match against the odds, and then still get punished for rank by getting the reduced gains.

If that's still true, then it's as broken a system as can be.
07/06/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We have a fix coming for this. Hopefully today. Worst case, this week.

We definitely don't want people getting shrekt.


Can I just say how much I love Jeff Kaplan? Open about changes and responsive to the communities complaints.
07/06/2016 11:55 AMPosted by Psiwolf
07/06/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We have a fix coming for this. Hopefully today. Worst case, this week.

We definitely don't want people getting shrekt.


What was the reasoning behind punishing the winning team when someone leaves the game?


Why assume they meant to do it? If they are fixing it, it probably wasn't intended.

I'm sure it was something like when someone left, the cumulative MMR of the enemy team went down, so it looked like you beat a weaker opponent.
I think they just thought if the teams are not even then its not a fair match, so being a winner 6v2 is not really a test of your skill. I have had matches where 1 person rage quits, then it gives the team 1min and a notification you are free to quit with a loss but no penalty box for quitting. Then 3-4 more people leave, the person left either also has to leave or try and finish the match completely outnumbered. The Winners get a win and their ranks DO move upward but not as much as if they won a full game.

I think they were trying to prevent abuse where teams win-trade and wanted to count these matches as duds, just need to tweak it some more.
07/06/2016 11:59 AMPosted by Noveson
07/06/2016 11:55 AMPosted by Psiwolf
...

What was the reasoning behind punishing the winning team when someone leaves the game?


Why assume they meant to do it? If they are fixing it, it probably wasn't intended.

I'm sure it was something like when someone left, the cumulative MMR of the enemy team went down, so it looked like you beat a weaker opponent.


Should the losers of a legitmate 5v6 still lose the same amount of SP as if it's 6v6?
07/06/2016 11:55 AMPosted by Psiwolf
07/06/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We have a fix coming for this. Hopefully today. Worst case, this week.

We definitely don't want people getting shrekt.


What was the reasoning behind punishing the winning team when someone leaves the game?


Skill Rating is very closely tied to your MMR. When we calculate MMR adjustment we look at things like was it a mis-match. The effect of someone leaving a match is different depending on when it happens. If it happens at the very end of a match it has very little relevance to MMR and thus Skill Rating. When it happens at the beginning of a match, it has a larger effect. Because no one sees MMR and MMR is not viewed as a "reward", it's fine that MMR works that way. MMR exists to create the best possible matches. But once we translated MMR into Skill Rating, it did not feel good. Also, in Quick Play, we backfill. So very few matches were completed with this sort of mis-match situation occuring.

So this was really a new issue caused by Skill Rating being derived from MMR (a non-player facing number) as well as no backfilling in competitive play. Hope that makes sense.
07/06/2016 12:04 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
07/06/2016 11:55 AMPosted by Psiwolf
...

What was the reasoning behind punishing the winning team when someone leaves the game?


Skill Rating is very closely tied to your MMR. When we calculate MMR adjustment we look at things like was it a mis-match. The effect of someone leaving a match is different depending on when it happens. If it happens at the very end of a match it has very little relevance to MMR and thus Skill Rating. When it happens at the beginning of a match, it has a larger effect. Because no one sees MMR and MMR is not viewed as a "reward", it's fine that MMR works that way. MMR exists to create the best possible matches. But once we translated MMR into Skill Rating, it did not feel good. Also, in Quick Play, we backfill. So very few matches were completed with this sort of mis-match situation occuring.

So this was really a new issue caused by Skill Rating being derived from MMR (a non-player facing number) as well as no backfilling in competitive play. Hope that makes sense.


Do you plan on more harsh punishment for people who leave early? Or perhaps find a way to introduce back-filling into ranked?
07/06/2016 12:04 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan

Skill Rating is very closely tied to your MMR. When we calculate MMR adjustment we look at things like was it a mis-match. The effect of someone leaving a match is different depending on when it happens. If it happens at the very end of a match it has very little relevance to MMR and thus Skill Rating. When it happens at the beginning of a match, it has a larger effect. Because no one sees MMR and MMR is not viewed as a "reward", it's fine that MMR works that way. MMR exists to create the best possible matches. But once we translated MMR into Skill Rating, it did not feel good. Also, in Quick Play, we backfill. So very few matches were completed with this sort of mis-match situation occuring.

So this was really a new issue caused by Skill Rating being derived from MMR (a non-player facing number) as well as no backfilling in competitive play. Hope that makes sense.


Is there any chance this fix will be retro-active, giving players appropriate rating for previous wins? Or will it only apply to future games?
07/06/2016 12:14 PMPosted by Daitanis
The newest patch didn't even freaking address this issue. Much to no one's surprise. Thanks for nothing, Kaplan.


They can push out as many patches as they need on b.net. There could still be another one today.

The problem is when will see it on consoles. :(
07/06/2016 12:04 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
07/06/2016 11:55 AMPosted by Psiwolf
...

What was the reasoning behind punishing the winning team when someone leaves the game?


Skill Rating is very closely tied to your MMR. When we calculate MMR adjustment we look at things like was it a mis-match. The effect of someone leaving a match is different depending on when it happens. If it happens at the very end of a match it has very little relevance to MMR and thus Skill Rating. When it happens at the beginning of a match, it has a larger effect. Because no one sees MMR and MMR is not viewed as a "reward", it's fine that MMR works that way. MMR exists to create the best possible matches. But once we translated MMR into Skill Rating, it did not feel good. Also, in Quick Play, we backfill. So very few matches were completed with this sort of mis-match situation occuring.

So this was really a new issue caused by Skill Rating being derived from MMR (a non-player facing number) as well as no backfilling in competitive play. Hope that makes sense.


So no adjustment for teams who suffer the leaver? They still receive "normal XP" loss? I guess it makes sense if you fix the winners so that it's normal XP gain/loss on both sides. But, being on a losing team and losing nearly a level of skill rating all because 1 (sometimes 2+) of your team-mates leave feels and seems really off.
07/06/2016 12:04 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
Skill Rating is very closely tied to your MMR.
I have two questions regarding MMR:

#1: Does ones Quick Play MMR inflience ones Competitive MMR?

#2: Does the Competitive MMR reset at the end of the Season (either soft or hard) or does it remain the same?
07/06/2016 11:55 AMPosted by Psiwolf
07/06/2016 11:52 AMPosted by Jeff Kaplan
We have a fix coming for this. Hopefully today. Worst case, this week.

We definitely don't want people getting shrekt.


What was the reasoning behind punishing the winning team when someone leaves the game?


Because this is a rating system, not an elo system, it must be 0 sum.
07/06/2016 12:09 PMPosted by qbert
07/06/2016 12:04 PMPosted by Jeff Kaplan

Skill Rating is very closely tied to your MMR. When we calculate MMR adjustment we look at things like was it a mis-match. The effect of someone leaving a match is different depending on when it happens. If it happens at the very end of a match it has very little relevance to MMR and thus Skill Rating. When it happens at the beginning of a match, it has a larger effect. Because no one sees MMR and MMR is not viewed as a "reward", it's fine that MMR works that way. MMR exists to create the best possible matches. But once we translated MMR into Skill Rating, it did not feel good. Also, in Quick Play, we backfill. So very few matches were completed with this sort of mis-match situation occuring.

So this was really a new issue caused by Skill Rating being derived from MMR (a non-player facing number) as well as no backfilling in competitive play. Hope that makes sense.


Is there any chance this fix will be retro-active, giving players appropriate rating for previous wins? Or will it only apply to future games?


No real need since it affects everyone equally.

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