Re: Coin Flip/Sudden Death in Competitive Play

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Thanks Jeff.

Removing the asymmetrical nature of the sudden death will go a long way to fixing the perception of imbalance. It sounds like you all take the feedback to heart.
I just want no "overtime" in sudden death mode.
Because the attackers already have the spawn advantage.

Thanks for the insight jeff.
Highly Rated
Perhaps a special KoTH map, or some kinda Deathmatch on a exclusive Sudden Death map would be really interesting, and really push the feeling of "This is it, the FINAL strike"
Thanks for letting us have CP now, even given the obvious concerns.
Thanks for the response, nice to hear that sudden death is being tooled with and that it should be changing in the future, also nice to hear that as usual, the community balloons issues to unparalleled proportions. That bit about stats and exaggeration is very refreshing to hear.
I haven't tried the Ranked mode in PTR yet, but it's nice to see issues and complaints being addressed.
As usual, thanks for addressing this Jeff. Very useful read.
Jeff,

I really like the way you go to great lengths to explain your thinking. It's great. Gives me some real insight.

Thank u so much for taking the time to do so.
06/22/2016 09:03 PMPosted by FrostyFeet
I just want no "overtime" in sudden death mode.
Because the attackers already have the spawn advantage.

Thanks for the insight jeff.


I just want no overtime what so ever. Such a stupid mechanic it is.
Some of us like Koth for sudden death more. I wonder if we can implement both sudden death mode beta and current and having players to vote for it. After some time you can gather information and know which one is more preferable.
I'm glad to hear that you guys are listening to some of the communities' concerns. I agree with you guys that sudden death does seem to be overblown, however an asymetric map and game mode can never be perfectly balanced. Not on every level at least.

At the same time I'm curious as to how you guys intend on making a draw feel satisfying. Any initial potential theories you want to share on how it would affect rank?
Jeff,

Awesome post. Thanks for the response and information. Why not go back to the king of the hill sudden death for summer season rather than the coin toss? It is at least a fair, balanced option where both teams have the same chance to win. I dont get why people complained about that but it seems like the majority of people would be more okay with that over the unfair coin toss. I know you say you have numbers but on payload/hybrid maps, attackers have a clear advantage when a win is only at the first objective.

I definitely dont want to see competitive delayed any more than it has been, but it seems like it would be easy to simply swap sudden deaths back to the old system. Since it was already developed and in game.

I know sudden death wont happen every game but the games it does, its really a coin flip that decides who wins or loses. Thats not very competitive
06/22/2016 09:09 PMPosted by Zom!@#$o
06/22/2016 09:03 PMPosted by FrostyFeet
I just want no "overtime" in sudden death mode.
Because the attackers already have the spawn advantage.

Thanks for the insight jeff.


I just want no overtime what so ever. Such a stupid mechanic it is.


Overtime is a horrible, horrible mechanic. Oh no we lost, quick everyone switch to tracer, soldier, and lucio so we can get 10 minutes of ot and get lucky
06/22/2016 09:18 PMPosted by Tw1tch919
Jeff,

Awesome post. Thanks for the response and information. Why not go back to the king of the hill sudden death for summer season rather than the coin toss? It is at least a fair, balanced option where both teams have the same chance to win. I dont get why people complained about that but it seems like the majority of people would be more okay with that over the unfair coin toss. I know you say you have numbers but on payload/hybrid maps, attackers have a clear advantage when a win is only at the first objective.

I definitely dont want to see competitive delayed any more than it has been, but it seems like it would be easy to simply swap sudden deaths back to the old system. Since it was already developed and in game.

I know sudden death wont happen every game but the games it does, its really a coin flip that decides who wins or loses. Thats not very competitive


He just said that perception is pretty much factually untrue. The stats don't lie. And if they say the stats are in a good balanced margin I am inclined to believe them. Yes an asymmetrical map is by definition asymmetrical. But I do not believe that means it is necessarily unbalanced. Some people are better at attacking, others are better at defending, that simple.
"In the long term, we’re actually looking to remove the coin flip and Sudden Death from the game altogether."

good stuff
06/22/2016 09:21 PMPosted by Dracoliat
06/22/2016 09:18 PMPosted by Tw1tch919
Jeff,

Awesome post. Thanks for the response and information. Why not go back to the king of the hill sudden death for summer season rather than the coin toss? It is at least a fair, balanced option where both teams have the same chance to win. I dont get why people complained about that but it seems like the majority of people would be more okay with that over the unfair coin toss. I know you say you have numbers but on payload/hybrid maps, attackers have a clear advantage when a win is only at the first objective.

I definitely dont want to see competitive delayed any more than it has been, but it seems like it would be easy to simply swap sudden deaths back to the old system. Since it was already developed and in game.

I know sudden death wont happen every game but the games it does, its really a coin flip that decides who wins or loses. Thats not very competitive


He just said that perception is pretty much factually untrue. The stats don't lie. And if they say the stats are in a good balanced margin I am inclined to believe them. Yes an asymmetrical map is by definition asymmetrical. But I do not believe that means it is necessarily unbalanced. Some people are better at attacking, others are better at defending, that simple.


I know what he said but hes not gonna get on here and admit that its unfair. If you have played overwatch for more than an hour, you know that reaching point 1 on a payload map is ridiculously easy.

I am not saying its impossible to defend a payload out of the gate, but the attacking team has a clear advantage. You wipe them and they have a walk back of 10 feet. If the defenders wipe even once, the payload easily hits first checkpoint. You literally have to be perfect on defense and you can screw up over and over on offense and still win.

His "stats" are less than 24, hours of limited play. 48 hours if you count korea. Which i dont lol.

Simply going back to king of the hill for sudden death is clearly the best thing to do here until season 2. It gives each team the same even playing field to win or lose.

Either that or moving the defender spawn point to the same equal distance as the attackers spawn point since sudden death is only to checkpoint 1. Just thought of that one
06/22/2016 09:30 PMPosted by Tw1tch919
06/22/2016 09:21 PMPosted by Dracoliat
...

He just said that perception is pretty much factually untrue. The stats don't lie. And if they say the stats are in a good balanced margin I am inclined to believe them. Yes an asymmetrical map is by definition asymmetrical. But I do not believe that means it is necessarily unbalanced. Some people are better at attacking, others are better at defending, that simple.


I know what he said but hes not gonna get on here and admit that its unfair. If you have played overwatch for more than an hour, you know that reaching point 1 on a payload map is ridiculously easy.

I am not saying its impossible to defend a payload out of the gate, but the attacking team has a clear advantage. You wipe them and they have a walk back of 10 feet. If the defenders wipe even once, the payload easily hits first checkpoint. You literally have to be perfect on defense and you can screw up over and over on offense and still win.

His "stats" are less than 24, hours of limited play. 48 hours if you count korea. Which i dont lol.

Simply going back to king of the hill for sudden death is clearly the best thing to do here until season 2. It gives each team the same even playing field to win or lose.

Either that or moving the defender spawn point to the same equal distance as the attackers spawn point since sudden death is only to checkpoint 1. Just thought of that one


I can see your point, but with the defenses team, they can set up ahead of time, like normal, and can choose locations/strategy far more than the offense team. they also do not need to worry nearly as much as moving forwards into a hail of gunfire, electricity, and pissed off gorillas.

As for moving it back to KOTH, I can see where you're coming from too. However to do that they would need to edit the mode again, and internally troubleshoot it to make sure it's up to technical snuff. then ptr that again to make it's up to community snuff as well. And with all that, it would not be released until likely well into July. People are already getting antsy over a lack of Competitive Modes. They were antsy the day of release, so delaying it further to please a vocal minority of the player base doesn't make a whole lot of sense at this point.

They are headed in a good direction though since they admitted it's not perfect yet, and want to improve it. They also gave us a rough estimated timeline for some of the changes, which shows they are not just talking. Jeff doesn't give a timeline on anything unless it's pretty much a completely finalized decision. I haven't seen any reason not to trust him or the rest of the overwatch dev team yet, so try to relax a little and have a bit of faith.
Thank you for such detailed updates on a regular basis. It really is fantastic.
Hey Jeff.

I haven't seen this yet so I'm just going to ask plain and simple. Is there a reason why stopwatch isn't mentioned as a possible solution? It seems like the most fair way to go about it that I can think of. Whoever wins fastest or pushes the payload the furthest before running out of time.

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