Flashbang Should Stop Momentum, Just Like The Hook

General Discussion
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Highly Rated
It finally happened, its on PTR. It stops momentum. It took them 1 year, 1 !@#$ing year. The slowpoke is real guys.
07/12/2017 06:15 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
McCree
Flashbang
Now slows targets significantly when they are stunned. This makes them less likely to slide away around a corner or something similar once they are stunned.


At least it happened, too bad i don't play the game anymore xD got fed up with the bull%^-* i had to come through with this hero. I still checked the game on events and new hero releases, nothing was interesting enough to get back to it, but you know, i really like doomfist, and this change as a bonus, i might get back to playing OW sometimes, thanks blizz!

Everything below this line is from before the fix, i'll leave it for history. Thanks to anyone who helped!

These are my feelings regarding the current situation:
https://gfycat.com/VibrantSaneIcterinewarbler

There is no doubt about it anymore, they fixed roadhog's hook for the exact same reasons they should fix the flashbang, momentum nullifies the skill completely, and not just around corners. It is countered with a jump, which is silly when you think about it. And I'm not even talking about genji, which is 90% of time airborne.

01/10/2017 06:24 PMPosted by Geoff Goodman
- Added some more line of sight checks towards the left/right of a potential hook target. This means it should be easier to hook someone who is sticking halfway out of a doorway, or behind a thin pole, etc. These checks are also used for the persistent line of sight check, so if a hook target moves behind a slim object like a stump or a lightpole, they won't be released anymore.
- Hooked targets are now slowed heavily while they are stunned, even if they are in the air. This means if someone is strafe jumping away from you and you land a hook, they are a lot less likely to slide out of line on sight, breaking the hook.

Can we have these fixes for McCree too? Because the strafe jump problem has a huge impact on McCree's ability to counter flankers with the flashbang. The jump alone counters it completely.

Here are some examples of how strafe jumping(and other things) nullify the flashbang just as it nullified hook 2.0


  • https://gfycat.com/UnripeSickAngora - Sombra is carried by the momentum behind cover, the flashbang is wasted just like hook was by jumping into cover, except the CD is 10s, not 6s
  • https://gfycat.com/HonestConcreteAuklet - i doubt a ROG eSports player will be able to land a shot on this one
  • https://gfycat.com/ScratchyGeneralBluet - Ana literally ended up on McCree's head after being flashbanged. I guess this is the closest we have to HATs yet.
  • https://gfycat.com/PracticalTornCow - again, Dva landed on my head, are you trolling me at this point?
  • https://gfycat.com/ShadyInfiniteGelding - Symmetra on my head, SERIOUSLY? how many times will this happen? stop trolling me blizzard
  • https://gfycat.com/DimDescriptiveEskimodog - carried by momentum outside of FOV, really?
  • https://gfycat.com/TiredNeedyArcticduck - doesn't stop swift strike(dash) either, but stops rein charge? 'fair'
  • https://gfycat.com/FirmObviousFrillneckedlizard

  • https://streamable.com/w5sk - if it stopped momentum, the whole thing would have played differently. I would have killed him, and i would saw the rein coming etc. This is just infuriating.
  • https://gfycat.com/AnxiousDelectableAlbacoretuna
  • https://gfycat.com/HappygoluckyAcrobaticArawana - why even use the flashbang if it doesn't stop the target? tracer just got a free escape card granted to her by the momentum
  • https://gfycat.com/WellmadeGrippingBangeltiger - same thing, perfectly executed flashbang escaped for free by momentum
  • https://gfycat.com/AjarWarpedCobra
  • https://gfycat.com/LikableEuphoricGalah - if she didn't get flashbanged, nothing would have changed. The skill literally had 0 effect on the situation, and again, free escape granted by momentum.
  • https://gfycat.com/LoneSilverBedbug - this is ridiculous, i stunned him and i still die, while he is being stunned? what?
  • https://gfycat.com/OpulentIllegalIggypops - who needs a skill to work in a critical situation, right? let's just appreciate how flashbang did jack all here to stop genji. Again, free escape granted by momentum
  • https://gfycat.com/UnfitSerpentineBandicoot
  • https://gfycat.com/HighlevelWeeklyAmericanavocet - this one looks more like the flashbang helped sombra to escape by bouncing her close to cover. This is just silly.
  • https://gfycat.com/FlawlessAdorableAmphibian - "Ok, low health, ridiculously tiny target to hit... i have a plan, i need to flashbang her to secure a kill... F*CK" Who needs a skill to work, right?
  • https://gfycat.com/PeacefulUntriedAlaskanmalamute - do i need piercing bullets to land this shot? how do i get access to them?
  • https://gfycat.com/JubilantTerribleIlsamochadegu - "I will strategically bounce so that you can't see my head, i hope you like foot fetish"
  • https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1YVrxFmheSc


Blizzard, what are these lines in game for?
  • -Don't move.
  • -Hold up now.
  • -Now, hold on.


McCree says them when he uses a flashbang. Do any of the examples resemble a not moving character? hearing them is painful, because the next thing i see is a flashbanged enemy landing on my head or a Genji flying over my head at mark 2 speed. "Don't move" you say? more like CAN'T STOP WON'T STOP.

Please, fix the flashbang too, it has the same problems. If you'll leave McCree as is, to rot, it will be very disappointing.

If you have examples of your own, post them and i will add them to the list.

Whenever enemies jump, they effectively nullify the flashbang because it doesn't stop them one bit. Often times enemies end up behind cover or even over your head. What good is the skill made to stop the enemy, if it doesn't stop him? it is just a waste, and it is on a 10s CD, and it is on a squishy character. If McCree fails to protect himself, he is dead, he doesn't have 600hp, 300hp heal and 6 seconds to wait, like roadhog.

The flashbang doesn't have a visual clear illustration "in your face" to show that the skill failed, like a chain that breaks to illustrate that it can't do its job, but it effectively fails its job of stopping the target, and the reason is exactly the same, momentum.

Atm it does not stop the momentum of the character that is being flashed, if he is not on the ground.
It is a design overlook.

Look, with only 2 questions i can make it clear that the ability is not doing its job correctly.
It is flawed no matter how you look at it.
  • If it wasn't supposed to stop targets, why stunned heroes do not slide a little when stunned while running?
  • If it was supposed to stop targets, why it doesn't stop the momentum as soon as you are 1mm from the ground?


A charging Rein will be stopped, but a butterfly? a butterfly won't be stopped because its in the air.

The FB was designed to stop the target so that you could align your HS or use FtH, which is negated completely by a jump. It DOES stop Reinhardt's charge, but DOES NOT stop Mercy's Guardian Angel ability... If this is not an oversight i don't know what is.

01/05/2017 11:30 PMPosted by Ramiel
In light of Roadhog joining the club, I think this thread has become very relevant to the new patch.

https://gfycat.com/LividFragrantClam

They fixed roadhog, he joined the club and left it before McCree was even acknowledged.
And this problem was brought up multiple times:
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20747695137

Videos from that topic, notice how tracer exploits the jump:
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVZFiQTWfWc
  • https://youtu.be/Ay2-nxUuZnE


Here is what reddit thinks. 75% agrees. https://redd.it/5nja5j

Another solution is to start 0.7s countdown when the flashed target hits the ground, so it will be stunned while in the air + 0.7s when hitting the ground.

Also his ultimate has the same problem if the center of mass is not visible, a roadhog can hide behind a thin pole and the lock on will not work, even though 90% of his body is visible. You can't kill anyone with his ult if their center of mass is hidden, even if the rest of the body is visible.
Highly Rated
07/28/2016 03:53 PMPosted by iSinner
Yes, it should. It is countered with a jump, which is silly when you think about it.
I'm not even talking about genji, which is 90% of time airborne.

Atm it does not stop the momentum of the character that is being flashed.
It seems like this is a design overlook.


the stun duration should just start from when they touch the ground after being flash banged
It's a stun bomb, not a time-stop bomb. I don't understand why Newton's law of inertia shouldn't apply in this case...

Also, what do you mean by 'countered with a jump'? Do Enemies in the air ignore the stun if they're in the air? Even if you hit them directly with it?
07/28/2016 04:02 PMPosted by Ancova
Also, what do you mean by 'countered with a jump'? Do Enemies in the air ignore the stun if they're in the air? Even if you hit them directly with it?
He mean's "I need to continue to track my target with FtH instead of just E+RMB to victory".
07/28/2016 03:53 PMPosted by iSinner
Yes, it should. It is countered with a jump, which is silly when you think about it.
I'm not even talking about genji, which is 90% of time airborne.

Atm it does not stop the momentum of the character that is being flashed.
It seems like this is a design overlook.


It's not as silly as a "flashbang" stopping you from moving...

If flashbang stopped momentum it would just look so wrong. The hero got flashbanged; he didn't hit a wall.
Yeah that has been my biggest annoyance when I play McCree. You finally manage to bait out that genji reflect, gotten tracer to use up her escapes, etc... throw the FB and they jump T_T. Now your attempting to track them through the air (in 50+ hrs I've only managed to headshot maybe 3 people during this) and the moment they land they are free to continue running while McCree is left SOL.

07/28/2016 03:58 PMPosted by MrFurious
07/28/2016 03:53 PMPosted by iSinner
Yes, it should. It is countered with a jump, which is silly when you think about it.
I'm not even talking about genji, which is 90% of time airborne.

Atm it does not stop the momentum of the character that is being flashed.
It seems like this is a design overlook.


the stun duration should just start from when they touch the ground after being flash banged


Yeah this is an idea I've had too. It would make for a nice quality of life change.
07/28/2016 03:58 PMPosted by MrFurious
07/28/2016 03:53 PMPosted by iSinner
Yes, it should. It is countered with a jump, which is silly when you think about it.
I'm not even talking about genji, which is 90% of time airborne.

Atm it does not stop the momentum of the character that is being flashed.
It seems like this is a design overlook.


the stun duration should just start from when they touch the ground after being flash banged

Genji for example most of the time is in the air for the whole stun duration, in this case it would double the duration and i think its too much. Dropping right down should be enough.
If they are moving and you use it on them it should just make them trip to the ground in the direction they are moving. It would make for much more entertaining game play.
07/28/2016 04:08 PMPosted by OkageTadaka
If they are moving and you use it on them it should just make them trip to the ground in the direction they are moving. It would make for much more entertaining game play.

Hahaha. Yeah it would look funny
07/28/2016 04:02 PMPosted by Ancova
It's a stun bomb, not a time-stop bomb. I don't understand why Newton's law of inertia shouldn't apply in this case...

Also, what do you mean by 'countered with a jump'? Do Enemies in the air ignore the stun if they're in the air? Even if you hit them directly with it?


because this is a video game and for the sake of BALANCE, it should be altered. Jumping counters it because you are technically still "moving" even when stunned and by the time you have landed the stun is worn off and you are able to continue moving.

It's not hard to understand.
I'd much rather have them flying through the air not doing anything instead of deflecting/blinking/swift striking/recalling/concussive blasting/sound barrier dropping/barraging/bumping/shooting/death blossoming/etc/etc/etc
07/28/2016 04:36 PMPosted by DURANDAL
I'd much rather have them flying through the air not doing anything instead of deflecting/blinking/swift striking/recalling/concussive blasting/sound barrier dropping/barraging/bumping/shooting/death blossoming/etc/etc/etc

It doesn't make the skill worthwhile.

99% of flashbangs landed mid jump are worthless.
Are you shooting them while they are in the air?

And honestly, we already have a hero that stops players' momentum so you can line up an ez pz head shot: Mei.
07/28/2016 05:49 PMPosted by DURANDAL
Are you shooting them while they are in the air?

And honestly, we already have a hero that stops players' momentum so you can line up an ez pz head shot: Mei.

There is no point using a FB on the airborne target, it wont stop them, they wont change their trajectory what so ever, it will only put them in some awkward position while flying by which doesn't help either.
The FB was designed to stop the target so that you can align your HS or use FtH, which is negated completely by a jump. If this is not an overlook i don't know what is.
07/28/2016 05:56 PMPosted by iSinner
There is no point using a FB on the airborne target, it wont stop them, they wont change their trajectory what so ever, it will only put them in some awkward position while fling by which doesn't help either.
First, so don't use FBs on airborne targets.
Second, since you started this:
"Countered with a jump". Does that mean "I can't FB airborne enemies" or "the player jumped in response to seeing the FB"? Because the first is either not leading the target, or timing the FB for when they land, the second is you not keeping a bead on them, which isn't hard when taking FB's range, jump heights, and FtH's spread together.
And there's a hell of a point to FB'ing a drop-in Death Blossom besides getting a kill in.
FB exists to stop flankers (part of which is engaging them in closed environments so they can't move) and give your team an edge in a dangerous situation as an interrupt skill. It is not meant to stop people dead because that's Mei's job.
I can understand the request to have the flashbang perform it's desired effect, but I feel that it would reduce the skill ceiling for the character and ability, turning it into a free kill mechanic for whenever it's used instead of when it's used correctly and at the right time.
Jump is spammable, you dont need to react to fb, you just spam jump. I can't stop airborne genji or jumping tracer/reaper. I just cant, it does not work.

Jump does not have a cooldown, FB on the other hand...

I can understand the request to have the flashbang perform it's desired effect, but I feel that it would reduce the skill ceiling for the character and ability, turning it into a free kill mechanic for whenever it's used instead of when it's used correctly and at the right time.

Its not like you have to deal with blinks/reflect/dash/wraith, am i right? i repeat, jump has no cooldown
I think that target that are hit by FB while airborn should have the momentum but they should fall on the ground for like 0.5 sec when they land just like you would if you fell from 2 or 3 stairs while blindfolded.

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