"2CP" maps are tedious and need some changes

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There are three "2cp" maps in the game atm. Hanamura, Volskaya and Anubis.

Pretty much everyone knows how tedious it can be for the attackers to capture the map.
Unless you kill every enemy team member at the same time, what usually happens is that the enemies will keep coming one by one, stalling the capture time.

You probably know the drill, you start seeing annoying Meis, Tracers and DVAs, heroes that take time or are hard to kill.
In the meantime if one of your members dies, it's usually a successful defend for the defending team and at the same time they gain time by killing your team members one by one.
On the other hand you have the snowball situation that if one of the teams manages to wipe the defending team members all at the same time, they can capture the point fast, but when it is your time to attack, things might not go so smoothly.
The teams can be pretty equal but this map can create a huge disadvantage just by circumstances and luck.

There are definitely solutions, some of them are:

1. Increase the respawn time for the defenders
2. Make the capturing of the second point faster
3. Add more "capture safepoints" right now there are 3, they could make them 6 for example.

Personally every time I see one of these maps in a competitive match I think "omg not one of these maps again". It's even worse on quickmatch where there is no coordination at all.
I completely disagree.

The maps are actually quite well balanced when you take into account distance from spawn to the point.

Attackers have the advantage on point one, defender on point two.

When in overtime, the defending team's respawn time does increase to 12 seconds. The in game countdown doesn't reflect this, but it will stay at zero for two seconds before the actual spawn.

Remember, these maps are designed for entire team pushes, where it doesn't matter if the defending team respawns faster. If you win the team fight, then you have won at least one notch towards that capture.

A maximum of three to win the game.
I completely agree, 2cp points should be somehow changed.
3CP it is!
Agreed, those maps are a chore to play, so tedious. People have been saying this since beta IIRC and here we are...
They have tweaked spawn times and the distances from spawn points to objectives in the past. I remember a post by Kaplun a while back when he stated that by altering the distance between spawn point and objective on one map which had some balance issues (i don't recall which), they were able to bring the Attack/Defend win ratio to essentially 50/50.

I think they're always looking at this stuff.

The trickle in effect is largely a function of random single que players IMO. I only play single que and i see it a lot. If you're playing and communicating with teammates you know and the other team is trickling, they're going to be in a world of hurt.
12/06/2016 06:59 AMPosted by MacFierce
They have tweaked spawn times and the distances from spawn points to objectives in the past. I remember a post by Kaplun a while back when he stated that by altering the distance between spawn point and objective on one map which had some balance issues (i don't recall which), they were able to bring the Attack/Defend win ratio to essentially 50/50.


That's Blizz main prob in a nutshell, all they ever look at are numbers. That 50/50 says nothing about fun.
am I the only one that loves hanamura? attacking is challenging and rewarding.
I think that a big problem in these maps is that if the attackers take the first point very quickly they can just snowball the second and that feels very unfun as a defender.
Also you only need to win one team fight one the points which means that the attackers need to win 2 team fights in order to win the game.
12/06/2016 07:00 AMPosted by Understeer
am I the only one that loves hanamura? attacking is challenging and rewarding.


Hanamura is better than the other 2 imo. When you start capturing the point, you can see the defenders coming, and you can deal with them better.
Volskaya is the worst of the 3, with practically 3 entrances (the 3rd one is from above) to the capture point for the defenders. The bleak colors in that map don't help with your mood either, as opposed to Hanamura.
every map is balanced and polished to the teeth. grab a few abilites and use them on gaps brigdes etc and see that the time last just as long as the walk speed for said brigde. Thats means, your post has no idea how many people and hours it would take to do this for every characters, whille making spawn times and defending points balanced. !@#$ING THOUSANDS OF HOURS THATS WHAT. So no. Dont do this blizz, your maps are %^-*ing perfect.
12/06/2016 07:00 AMPosted by Antitype
12/06/2016 06:59 AMPosted by MacFierce
They have tweaked spawn times and the distances from spawn points to objectives in the past. I remember a post by Kaplun a while back when he stated that by altering the distance between spawn point and objective on one map which had some balance issues (i don't recall which), they were able to bring the Attack/Defend win ratio to essentially 50/50.


That's Blizz main prob in a nutshell, all they ever look at are numbers. That 50/50 says nothing about fun.


It says everything about fun because it almost perfectly balanced.
Do you know what's not fun? A map that has a 30/70 balance or even a 40/60 balance, because the second you spawn in you know you either have the advantage or you don't. It's not fun to know that you're at a disadvantage simply because you happened to spawn on the side that wasn't favoured.

"All they ever look at is numbers"
Numbers make up everything about this game. Of course they look at them.
They look at pick rates to see who's potentially too strong and who's potentially weak.
Potentially too strong means that it's unfun to play the other heroes, and unfun to keep seeing the same team comp.
Potentially too weak means that it's unfun because the hero you're playing isn't as useful as others and dragging the team down. You end up with "Why are you playing X?" because the hero you want to play isn't seen as helpful.
You can then look at the numbers of other stuff, for example how often people switch off a certain hero. Sym was a great example of this because they looked at the numbers and saw that she was almost always switched off of after the first point was capped, meaning that she was seen as unfun and not as useful on the second point.
The numbers of the average K/D rate of a hero compared to other heroes in their class. Let's say Sombra averages a 2/1 KD, where as McCree averaged a 4/1. McCree is potentially twice as good as Sombra. If this is intended (eg, McCree is meant to rack up lots of kills, but have less versatility in his kit, where as Sombra can teleport, stealth, deny/supply health kits, deny abilities), that's good. If Sombra and McCree both had a 2/1 KD, McCree is under performing. If they had a 4/1 KD, Sombra is over performing. This is unfun because you may like playing McCree and hate playing Sombra, but you're unable to do what you intend to do.

Numbers are everything. Good numbers means fun.
Prepare for the true horror of the 2cp maps with the new symmetra
If anything should be changed it is those boring !@# KOTH maps.
What i like about overwatch is that it is not at "normal" FPS game.
And to me KOTH is just outdated and boring. Something new please.
The problems of these maps is that it's possible to stall forever and are very hard to fix. As they are designed now, point A is excessively easy for the attackers without a symmetra and point B is impossibly hard against a dva, mei, syymetra.
Point A requires the attacker to just win 1 teamfight and that happens most of the time, while point B requires the attackers to team wipe in overtime or snowball hard and capitalize on a big mistake defending the first point.

This ends up producing a lot of draws because contrary to payload you have no ticks counted, no time bank counted, nothing. It could have been a 2 mins stall vs a spawncamp and still no difference for the system.

Personally I dislike them because it's too easy to win a defense without doing major mistakes and global ult recharge hit these maps the most since you basically are forced to poke for a long time or you won't have any chance of success.
Thinking about a fix that would make time bank more important:
Defenders span time is increased by 2s for every minute passed. This would at least try to differentiate on the performances on first point.
Eh, 2cp maps are kinda fun to me. There's a sense of urgency when you step on the 2nd point to make sure everyone is dead and then defend their spawn doors to stall them as much as you can from getting back on point.
For whoever saw the match Misfits vs. Lunatic Hai, you can see an example of how "not fun" 2cp maps are. The Volskaya match was hopeless for both teams.

https://www.twitch.tv/esl_overwatch/v/107768834
These maps tend to be the least fun to play for me and pretty much the large group I play with. I think the concept is fine, but the design of some of the points on these maps make them very unfun to play on.
We appreciate the feedback on our Assault maps.

We've had a lot of discussion about the mode this week. We're talking about some potential changes but we still want to talk things through for a bit before making immediate changes.

One of the problems we're interested in solving is lowering the rate that draws occur in Assault. The worst offender is Hanamura. On a bad week, the map can draw as much as 18% of the time. To put the number in perspective, Control maps draw 0%, Payloads draw 0% and Hybrids draw on average 5.75% of the time.

Your overall chance of a draw in competitive mode is 5.45%, which seems more than acceptable to us.

I wouldn't go so far as to say draws happen every time on Assault or even that draws are rampant. Statistically, that is false. But we think we have some strong ideas to try out when it comes to reducing draws in Assault.

We have some other problems we are taking a look at as well.

But overall, we like Assault as a mode and we think the maps provide a lot of exciting Overwatch moments. We're always looking to improve all parts of the game and Assault is included in that.

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