Few changes to make McCree an actual close-mid ranged DPS

General Discussion
1. FTH spread reduced by about 25%

- The spread makes it !@#$ing useless against squishies due to their very small models, unless you are very very close to them, which is pretty stupid since, why the %^-* are they not with their team?

2. McCree's model now moves DURING Combat Roll instead of AFTER the roll

- Makes it a lot better to dodge things like Roadhog's hook, Reinhardt's charge, etc.

3. Flashbang's splash radius increased to 3 meters from 2 and now stops horizontal momentum. Flashbang's range reduced to 4 meters from 5.

- Makes it easier to catch people like Genji by simply throwing it at the ground instead of their faces and is a lot more forgiving. Also, now stops horizontal momentum so you can actually aim for your improved FTH.

4. During Deadeye, targets within 21 meters of McCree (McCree's current fall-off range) are locked 50% more quickly (300 health per second from 200). Targets who are 45m away are locked 25% slower (150 health per second from 200). Targets who are between 21 and 45 meters: no changes. Also, the delay between the click and the shots has been removed.

- Deadeye is now a lot more effective when used at close mid range, but is a lot less effective at longer range.

A bit of feedback would be appreciated. I tried to make him a better close-mid damage DPS, so Soldier can keep his identity as the long ranged DPS in the game, and I tried to fix the few annoying things in McCree's kit, while actually making his kit relevant and good to use. Also, I know the numbers on Deadeye can seem a bit high, but they can still be adjusted. Please, tell me if this is too much :3
As a,genji main **** no i already have enough counters at least i go 50/50 with McCree
OP, mcrees flashbang+fan the hammer is already his close range trick

hes mid-long range, hes not a close quarters hero
12/10/2016 01:03 AMPosted by theoldones
OP, mcrees flashbang+fan the hammer is already his close range trick

hes mid-long range, hes not a close quarters hero
Except it sucks?

Most McCree players just headshot + body shot instead of FTH and it was heavily nerfed to be less effective vs. tanks.
I personally like the idea of further buffing McCree's role as an anti-flanker, its rather annoying to always hear about two heroes fighting for the same job in a game that's trying to have each hero feel as diverse as possible, so I agree splitting Soldier and McCree apart role wise is a good idea.

The suggested changes are pretty nice, I don't know if all of them put together would be too much though. With my personal experience his flash-bang is a little risky just to do his job, and these changes on paper sound like a possible step in the right direction to help him.
12/10/2016 01:03 AMPosted by theoldones
OP, mcrees flashbang+fan the hammer is already his close range trick

hes mid-long range, hes not a close quarters hero

The fact that people can't even recognize him as a close range hero is a testament to how much the devs' original concept has been lost. These changes would be great for making him more CQC oriented like he used to be.
Yes
Yes
Yes
YES
Good ideas except ultimate. Imo, the charge time for it is not the problem. The fact that you start glowing like a friggin christmas tree and move as fast as one are the things that bother me the most.
100% behind this post! #MakeMccreeGreatAgain
The ult is too much.
12/10/2016 12:11 AMPosted by EZREALWRONG
2. McCree's model now moves DURING Combat Roll instead of AFTER the roll

- Makes it a lot better to dodge things like Roadhog's hook, Reinhardt's charge, etc.


That's already how it works. If you get hit in your previous position, it's just because of your latency. McCree's roll even overrides lag compensation (aka favor the shooter).
12/10/2016 03:51 AMPosted by Altimor
12/10/2016 12:11 AMPosted by EZREALWRONG
2. McCree's model now moves DURING Combat Roll instead of AFTER the roll

- Makes it a lot better to dodge things like Roadhog's hook, Reinhardt's charge, etc.


That's already how it works. If you get hit in your previous position, it's just because of your latency. McCree's roll even overrides lag compensation (aka favor the shooter).

Really? That's interesting. Is this from personal experience or do you have a source? I'd like to know more about it.
12/10/2016 12:11 AMPosted by EZREALWRONG
1. FTH spread reduced by about 25%

- The spread makes it !@#$ing useless against squishies due to their very small models, unless you are very very close to them, which is pretty stupid since, why the %^-* are they not with their team?


Well, McCree is listed as an anti-flanker, instead of being a flanker himself. He is able to catch flankers (who are not with their team) with his flashbang and quickly dispatch them with Fan the Hammer.
If blizzard wants to keep McCree as a close range anti-flanker, then I agree completely with you on what needs to be done. Currently, FTH is too unreliable against weaker characters (keep in mind that the damage nerf was so he specifically targeted squishes) and the flashbang doesn't stop momentum, which (in addition to being a wonky projectile) means it is less useful against flankers except reaper (who is more of a semi-mobile straight damage dealer than an actual flanker).

Granted, I think blizzard (and us) could have avoided a few headaches if McCree was tweaked to deal with slow, bulky targets (read: tanks) instead of fast, nimble ones. His kit was designed to be a master duelist, but due to the constant nerfs, he is fairly iffy on that regard. The fact that Mei, D.va, and Symmetra are (will in Symmetra's case) buffed, and the three of them deal with flankers better, we have enough ways to deal with them, and there is a desperate need for anti-tank options now (zenyatta doesn't deal with tanks anymore, reaper doesn't deal with tanks anymore, 76 does now but that is a problem in its own right...).
I'm a !@#$ McCree player and don't have much experience with him but one of the reasons for that is because I'm legitimately confused with his kit. I hassle with his abilities and don't really know where I should place myself, what I should focus on. I'm trying to focus on Pharah and flankers but often manage to screw it up. Pharah can destroy me because of my poor mobility. Flashbang doesn't stop momentum so my attempts to deal with Genji are often sad. FTH spread is so huge that, unless I'm right at their faces, it's unreliable against squishies. Against tanks it does too little damage. It's like I should just stop trying to use FTH.

In that regards I agree that something should be done about his kit, to make him more focused. Maybe I'd actually feel comfortable to play him then since now I'm just hopeless. With all other heroes I'm actively using all their abilities and have a rather solid idea of my role. With McCree... ehh.
12/10/2016 01:01 AMPosted by GodxFreebird
As a,genji main **** no i already have enough counters at least i go 50/50 with McCree

Nah, Mccree is SUPPOSED to be a hard counter to Genji; It has been said time and time again that he should be the one taking care of flankers. He's clearly failing at his job if you're going 50/50 with him. It should be much more in Mccree's favor when up against a Genji.
I was unaware that Mcrees roll is like a mini Genji dash. That probably explains alot when I kill him mid roll and he flies off the map.....?
Someone (sorry don't remember who is was) also suggested to change the damage on fth so each bullet deals less damage progressively while the damage itself stays the same (i.e the first does 70, second 50 or so - and so on) that way it could've actually be used to finish someone off and save you from the situations like "well you had like 4 bullets left but guess what 1 didn't hit so screw you that person will survive on 9 hp now" and things like that.

Well, McCree is listed as an anti-flanker, instead of being a flanker himself. He is able to catch flankers (who are not with their team) with his flashbang and quickly dispatch them with Fan the Hammer.
Except he doesn't and I laugh every time seeing McCree on the opposite team when I play Reaper. And he doesn't even have that much mobility and still shts on McCree for the most part.
I have a friend who has played Mccree since the game came out, and after a while he stopped using FTH altogether. I haven't seen him use it in ages

I'm all for bringing Mccree back towards his original intended role

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