PTR: Feedback on D.Va

General Discussion
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More updates. On supports:

Zenyatta

- Is a bane by himself to the point of switching off character. Discord orb feels awful on D.Va, one-shots are starting from stuff like Roadhog combo or Reaper two-shotting full HP MEKA
- By himself can force D.Va to run away even if she's not alone. Delivers too much DPS on her. Have to admit, good Zens may do it on live too - so, not something too surprising.

Ana

- Is a very bad target to jump on, sleep dart is impossible to miss on such huge target and sleep means death sentence (again, too low TTK for MEKA). Now - it's not something new, it's just sleep means your MEKA can be destroyed during "wake" animation, which is definitely new.
- Biotic grenade is like discord orb - death sentence now. If D.Va can't be healed, she dies in less than 1 second (assuming, of course - she didn't disengage or couldn't do so)

Mercy

- Nothing to say here, Mercy is weak against any character. At least D.Va can reliably kill Mercy

Symmetra

- With the fact D.Va needs to go nose-to-nose, Symmetra can now carousel D.Va easily (before you could keep some distance so Symmetra is in your FOV and hope you'll catch up with her bunny-hoping and strafing). From duels I was in, I was de-meched almost every time.
- Projected barrier grants Symmetra 0.5..1 seconds of free damaging on D.Va when D.Va can't even hit her. This is not new, but before Symmetra had to do it more often since you could catch up with her jumping and strafing more consistently meaning there was a good chance you'll catch her off CD on that shield.
- Better to disengage from Symmetra on sight, it's almost guaranteed loss

Lucio

- Can disengage on will. Nothing new, he was able to do it before as well.
- D.Va can kill him in the team-fight given there's no more valuable target

All in all - I see Ana and Zen as a very strong opposing characters to D.Va. Truth to be said, Zen is a bane for all tanks as he should be - but the problem is that D.Va already is extremely squishy and he lowers TTK on her to ridiculous values.

The concluding thoughts for supports would be:
Zen's orb / Ana's debuff lower TTK on D.Va to the point comparable with Tracer. No tank should feel like you're playing a character that can be randomly one-shotted by something on a battlefield.
Second point, as I've said - it is now harder to kill supports because they all have small hitbox and D.Va shotguns have increased spread. The battle isn't always on D.Va's terms, often she has to shoot into running targets and there are good chances she can't finish running support whereas she would do this on live.

Now, one point more:

Sombra

Something has to be done here. 0.8 seconds on the MEKA which goes through DM shouldn't be the thing. Because if you're on the front-line you can't start shooting at Sombra to interrupt hack since then her entire team destroys you in < 0.5 seconds. DM should have same treatment as Rein shield on this matter - it was reverted when hack started to go through his shield because it rendred him useless. Same for D.Va. She is practically useless if enemy team has Sombra - or at least she can't protect her team with DM at all.

I understand Sombra needs some space in the game - but this feels awful. You try to protect your team and you're unable to do so - worse, you're left on the front-line without any defense and MEKA is killed within 0.5..1 second. At least hack should not go through DM (so it's still possible to hack from an angle). On top of that Sombra's single clip can destroy full-HP MEKA, but often it's even not needed because MEKA is already hurt.
The one thing I love about all of this feedback is that it will fall on deaf ears as Jeff and the team will want to see how D.Va changes work in the live environment for a few months before considering any further changes. xD

(Downvote this all you want but you know I am right.)
01/08/2017 06:16 AMPosted by RainehDaze
Busting 4/5 tanks would be enough to be a tank buster. It doesn't leave him with an absolutely abominable chance to take out the last tank but it puts something in the category that can actually soak some of his damage.

If Reaper, or anyone really, ends up able to counter any tank, then the only reason he won't be elevated to "must pick" is because someone else is still killing them more effectively. Unless tanks are removed from team compositions entirely, then you could always use someone to counter them.

That's not a balanced counter.


See. THIS allows for a constructive conversation. Reaper struggling to take on and go against a certain tank is more than acceptable.

The problem is that D.va players have come to expect that D.va SHOULD be able to out duel a Reaper because she always has. Now that D.va has some difficulty against Reaper, that is the standard she is now considered trash? No. Not at all.
all they had to do was revert a little bit of the armor...

They go 0 to 100 with buffs or nerfs, it's irritating.

Nobody wants her every game, but we don't want her removed.

I didn't play much at all last season, so I can't speak for her prior to that 100 armor buff, but I thought she was fine.
01/08/2017 06:45 AMPosted by Jax
01/08/2017 06:16 AMPosted by RainehDaze
Busting 4/5 tanks would be enough to be a tank buster. It doesn't leave him with an absolutely abominable chance to take out the last tank but it puts something in the category that can actually soak some of his damage.

If Reaper, or anyone really, ends up able to counter any tank, then the only reason he won't be elevated to "must pick" is because someone else is still killing them more effectively. Unless tanks are removed from team compositions entirely, then you could always use someone to counter them.

That's not a balanced counter.


See. THIS allows for a constructive conversation. Reaper struggling to take on and go against a certain tank is more than acceptable.

The problem is that D.va players have come to expect that D.va SHOULD be able to out duel a Reaper because she always has. Now that D.va has some difficulty against Reaper, that is the standard she is now considered trash? No. Not at all.


D.Va doesn't just have some difficulty against Reaper. It's downright impossible for her to fight him now. It takes 3 shots into her critbox to take her out of her mech and now that her armor and damage got nerfed he can easily take her down without hitting her critbox (which is impossible).

My main problem with the nerf is that it was done to make Reaper more viable while not considering what might happen to D.Va as a result.
01/08/2017 06:45 AMPosted by Jax
01/08/2017 06:16 AMPosted by RainehDaze
Busting 4/5 tanks would be enough to be a tank buster. It doesn't leave him with an absolutely abominable chance to take out the last tank but it puts something in the category that can actually soak some of his damage.

If Reaper, or anyone really, ends up able to counter any tank, then the only reason he won't be elevated to "must pick" is because someone else is still killing them more effectively. Unless tanks are removed from team compositions entirely, then you could always use someone to counter them.

That's not a balanced counter.


See. THIS allows for a constructive conversation. Reaper struggling to take on and go against a certain tank is more than acceptable.

The problem is that D.va players have come to expect that D.va SHOULD be able to out duel a Reaper because she always has. Now that D.va has some difficulty against Reaper, that is the standard she is now considered trash? No. Not at all.


It's swung the other way entirely, which is the problem. Before, having armour at least forced Reaper to stay in the field of vision (and firing line) in order to take out D.Va efficiently, especially because almost any healing would give armour back.

Specifically, before she got the extra 100HP, only Reaper's final shot would be touching her HP, so any healing would work as an effective counter to being hit with shotguns. Now, two crits or three shots in general lets him get to the squishy layer, and Ana is the only one who can heal her back (which is its own problem).

With crits, it's not even fun to do. She's more threatening as a 150HP pistol with no abilities than a meka pilot.
The whole point of this nerf is to make her NOT impossible to kill, with the ridiculous amount of armor she have at this moment. I think your idea for 300 health/300 armor doesn't sound too bad, but her armor should never get any higher than that, and even then i still think it might be a bit too much armor.

I agree with the damage completely, if your bullets arent able to completely cover the hitbox then her damage becomes rather uselles, although instead of reverting this nerf, i think decreasing the bullet spread would be a better idea.

I wish Blizzard could also do something about her overpowered Defence Matrix and slightly nerf her boosters, the most annoying thing in the world is using your ultimate ability just to have D.Va completely consume it with her Matrix, and then instantly fly to you and finish you the second you try to back away in shame.
As a DPS main who play 76/Reaper/Ana and other characters that D.va can go toe to toe against in a 1v1, Bliz should really just revert the health change back to 100/400, and see how the Ana nerf plays out before they use the nerf bat again. D.va excelled in shutting down damage and ults, while also providing superior 1v1 capability. As annoying as getting my visor blocked by the Matrix, or losing a 1v1 as Reaper the premier tankbuster of the game, I understand that there's a need for a character like her who can provide various counterplay.

Right now on live she's the most reliable in taking out cheese like Bastion/Torb/Symmetra, while also providing the counter to 76 who is the premier DPS of this meta. Now, she never dies with a good Ana, which is a problem but D.va with any other healer is just as squishy as any other tanks. Playing D.va with Mercy is just an exercise in fultility. And keep in mind, D.va was in the !@#$ter for the large part of the 3 tanks meta thru out most of its iteration until very recently. The only time in the past that D.va was in play was after the initial shield rework, and then it got nerf because apparently doing one tap with it is not right. Just revert D.va to the initial shield rework and i think she should be somewhat of a balanced state (assuming the Ana nerf come through). Nobody was complaining about her health or her DM being OP until recently with the way she synergize with Ana.

As it is right now, if Bliz go through with the nerf, then it is an indirect buff to Zarya/Reaper/76/Torb/Symmetra, as the nerf make her capability to neutralize damage and 1v1 diminished greatly, which is one of her strength. Unless Blizzard wants a. 76's spot in the meta become even more dominant, b. no reliable counter to cheese strategy that make lower elo plays hell for people and c. a return to Rein/Zarya dominant meta that Blizzard worked hard to avoid via multiple nerf to Zarya, then right now they need to ease up on the nerf bat and see how things play out first.
01/08/2017 06:51 AMPosted by RainehDaze
Now, two crits or three shots in general lets him get to the squishy layer, and Ana is the only one who can heal her back (which is its own problem).


But those two-three shots in a critical spot would be enough to take down a normal tank, and we're forgetting that D.va has the ability to escape or absorb projectiles.
01/08/2017 07:06 AMPosted by Jax
01/08/2017 06:51 AMPosted by RainehDaze
Now, two crits or three shots in general lets him get to the squishy layer, and Ana is the only one who can heal her back (which is its own problem).


But those two-three shots in a critical spot would be enough to take down a normal tank, and we're forgetting that D.va has the ability to escape or absorb projectiles.


Right, but remember what I was saying about how one hero shouldn't be able to shut down an entire category because it does weird things to balance compositions?

And you can't miss D.Va's sweet spot, you just need to be in front of her--which is part of the incentive to giving her so much armour in the first place. She melts from energy attacks or explosions, ranged DPS that can get through DM... and now short-range shotguns or weak spread-happy bullets. Everything's a counter.

DM also doesn't work against Reaper at all, he can walk through it and shoot her. In fact, using DM against him now is strictly worse because it pretty much guarantees that he's going to take down the meka without damage.

And escaping is effectively a loss in this situation. It's a tiny improvement but... it's still a loss.
They offered 3 HUGE nerfs on genji at the same time and and people went through with it, just saying that the "triggered weebs don't need an ez op hero anymore". I bet a lot people here were even the people flaming genji mains, but. Now they see that it's different when it's their hero getting nerfed.
01/08/2017 07:06 AMPosted by Jax
01/08/2017 06:51 AMPosted by RainehDaze
Now, two crits or three shots in general lets him get to the squishy layer, and Ana is the only one who can heal her back (which is its own problem).


But those two-three shots in a critical spot would be enough to take down a normal tank, and we're forgetting that D.va has the ability to escape or absorb projectiles.


But a normal tanker has a head way smaller them her Cockpit glass resulting in a good damage mitigation simply by being small most pallets from a shotgun wont hit, while on D.va is the other way around, she can't have other tankers weakness if she has one already in place to undermine her.
I don't understand all this fuss about her being too strong, The buffs released seemed to just make her viable. If anything i'd say just revert her health back to 500, Only reason Road has that much HP is because he has no escape mechanism just his self heal so he'd melt otherwise.

Mind you im not a D.VA main so i might very well be wrong but in all my time playing Pharah even after the buff i have never felt like D.VA's unfair. Anoying ? As all hell but never unfair.
As a Dva player I can accept these changes, it was fun being able to run her on either A or D but I think this will help to diversify picks as well. I would always see another Dva opposing. I may have to find a new A character but she can still hold a D point. I think though the duration of her matrix should be extended if she is pushed more into a fully D role. I'll see if this helps see less 3 tank teams, but that'll have to be seen as it goes on. As a whole, I think the game will benefit, but individually there will always be pushback when players have to change their playstyle.
01/08/2017 07:22 AMPosted by UltimaWraith
As a Dva player I can accept these changes, it was fun being able to run her on either A or D but I think this will help to diversify picks as well. I would always see another Dva opposing. I may have to find a new A character but she can still hold a D point. I think though the duration of her matrix should be extended if she is pushed more into a fully D role. I'll see if this helps see less 3 tank teams, but that'll have to be seen as it goes on. As a whole, I think the game will benefit, but individually there will always be pushback when players have to change their playstyle.


I'm sorry, but diversity by making heroes useless and forcing other picks is not a good thing, not by a long shot.
01/08/2017 07:13 AMPosted by Flip
They offered 3 HUGE nerfs on genji at the same time and and people went through with it, just saying that the "triggered weebs don't need an ez op hero anymore". I bet a lot people here were even the people flaming genji mains, but. Now they see that it's different when it's their hero getting nerfed.


This people want balance the character 100% on the negativity/weak-points, instead of balance the character on her strong-points/Possitivty.

If you read the posts of this people they only make MARKETING about all the Bad-stuff Dva have. They haven't name a single strong point of Dva.

1.- Dva can do 253 - 277 DPS in close range for example
2.- Dva can escape from any situation with her Fly
3.- Dva can eat 90% of the ults with her DM
4.- Dva Ult is insane good for offense/defense
Etc.

Im absolutely sure if JEFF Balance her with the STRONG-POINTS she have, Dva will be in amazing spot always in B/C "Tiers". Tooty, angel, ceratisa, winkie are doing a excellent work in make the entire playerbase hate DVA and Jeff will ignore they cuz their only talk is about negative stuff
01/08/2017 07:13 AMPosted by Flip
They offered 3 HUGE nerfs on genji at the same time and and people went through with it, just saying that the "triggered weebs don't need an ez op hero anymore". I bet a lot people here were even the people flaming genji mains, but. Now they see that it's different when it's their hero getting nerfed.


This people want balance the character 100% on the negativity/weak-points, instead of balance the character on her strong-points/Possitivty.

If you read the posts of this people they only make MARKETING about all the Bad-stuff Dva have. They haven't name a single strong point of Dva.

1.- Dva can do 253 - 277 DPS in close range for example
2.- Dva can escape from any situation with her Fly
3.- Dva can eat 90% of the ults with her DM
4.- Dva Ult is insane good for offense/defense
Etc.

Im absolutely sure if JEFF Balance her with the STRONG-POINTS she have, Dva will be in amazing spot always in B/C "Tiers". Tooty, angel, ceratisa, winkie are doing a excellent work in make the entire playerbase hate DVA and Jeff ignore they cuz they only talk negative stuff


D.va's ult is undeniable one of the worst ults by itself, you'll hardly get anyone if they have 1/3 of their brain in place when ulting by yourself.

300 DPS in a zone that you melt even faster them you can melt someone may as well give me silk gloves to slap the enemy while being murdered.

All the dps in the world means nothing if you can't live enough to use it (look at Bastion), and PTR D.va can't DPS from where she's supposed to DPS because she's squishy as hell and Can't DPS from afar because her spread got nerfed even more with more pellets per shot.
01/08/2017 07:29 AMPosted by BigDaNTeBoSS
1.- Dva can do 253 - 277 DPS in close range for example
2.- Dva can escape from any situation with her Fly
3.- Dva can eat 90% of the ults with her DM
4.- Dva Ult is insane good for offense/defense
Etc.


1. Damage that relies on being alive, in close range where all other characters can now ignore her defences and she's gotten weaker.
2. Running away isn't contributing
3. If you haven't used it to, say, not die. There's also only a small pool of things that she can affect Reinhardt or killing the user can't--and Genji covers them.
4. Reinhardt. Or a paper towel wall. And being in the meka is necessary, of course.

Her strengths are no good if they can't be applied. What these nerfs have done is make her good points inapplicable.
01/08/2017 07:29 AMPosted by BigDaNTeBoSS
Im absolutely sure if JEFF Balance her with the STRONG-POINTS she have, Dva will be in amazing spot always in B/C "Tiers"

B or C-Tier... like she is right now at this very moment?
Umm, maybe I missed something here but D VA is a tank, not a top tier dps class.

If you're worried about Reinhardt, you have a !@#$%^- button that allows you to fly every 6 seconds. Do the math.

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