PTR: Feedback on D.Va

General Discussion
Prev 1 4 5 6 51 Next
More updates. Players started to test Sombra more actively and so it's not rare to face her on the PTR. I would say - Sombra is the new arch-nemesis of D.Va. It's unexpectedly so, but her gun usually is weak - however the spread perfectly fits into D.Va's crit. box. And don't you dare to miss the 0.8 seconds she hacks you. Because if she do - you're done, there's no way out and MEKA melts in less than 1 or 0.5 seconds.

Overall observation on match-ups (here I assume you and enemy know what you're doing):

Hard-counters:
- Soldier76. Why: no more armor damage mitigation; way too higher effective distance + high mobility.
- Reaper. Why: ~200HP regular shots each per 0.5 seconds.
- Zarya. Why: not new, beam weapon. New: due to wider spread it's more difficult to hit Zarya.
- Mei. Why: same as Zarya, both points.
- RoadHog. Why: hook combo delivers more than 400HP damage. Often not able to even run away since during turn animation MEKA is destroyed already.

Strong counters:
- Reinhardt. Why: armored target + D.Va now has to go close distance at which Rein excels.
- Genji. Why: higher mobility + R-Click spam now works very effective against D.Va.
- Tracer. Why: her regular attacks now don't suffer from armor damage mitigation and MEKA melts way faster.
- Pharah. Why: effective range of D.Va is less than 10m, easy to out-maneuver, not possible to fly in on boosters anymore (too low damage from afar to possess a threat to Pharah)
- Torbjorn. Why: R-click effectiveness raised very significantly (again, no armor mitigation) + it's extremely easy to land. Turret now deals very notable amount of damage too.
- Sombra. Why: hack means death sentence, hacked MEKA is a stationary object which can't chase you or shoot back well enough. High-speed weapon now works perfectly.
- Symmetra. Why: has small hitbox which is even harder to hit now due to wider spread.

Relatively equal match-up: (this means: either chances of winning/losing is ~equal or target can disengage from fight whenever it wants)
- Widow. Why: if approach Widow as "boosters + DM" - she will run away and re-position way before. If jump on her when she's not suspecting - she can start to carousel and it's very difficult to hit her as the hitbox is small. Then she hooks away to the team.
- Junkrat. Why: if concussion mine is on CD there's a good chance to win. But if not - Junkrat disengages after some "dancing around" (almost like Widow match-up).
- McCree. Why: McCree has low mobility and if caught - all boils down to whether he has flashbang ready or now.
- Hanzo. Why: Match-up is about to guess when he uses his scatter. If he used it into DM - there is a chance on punishing, if he hit D.Va with it -> de-suit is almost guaranteed during duel.

No data yet available:
- Bastion
- Winston

Countered heroes (ones whom D.Va counters herself)

- <?> yet to find one. But I would say - she can still kill supports, however it's a special case because supports are generally the targets of any hero and other heroes are doing this job well too. Still - she indeed can punish Mercy or Zen out of position - or sometimes Ana is her sleep dart is on CD.

I don't count supports in the listing of "match-ups" directly, but Zen and Ana can give hell of a tough time if played properly. Carousel tactics works insanely well and you have to go nose to nose to deal good damage meaning they will apply this tactics to you. I honestly couldn't now find any hero which D.Va hard-counters. Or is a strong pick against. It feels like deja vu - in season 2 it was same, D.Va is countered by half a roaster, hard-countered by 5+ heroes and doesn't counter anyone by herself. I'm convinced this is not what should be called "balanced state"
01/07/2017 07:29 AMPosted by TimySch
OP, you are suffering the nerf because of your spoiled playstyle due to DVa having OP survivability. No hero should be able to flank or charge in alone, survive the focus and get out.

A tank should not reliably counter DPS hero or flank and get out.

Not to mention that she has one of the best ultimates for area denial/damage.

All in all with the nerf you will need a less aggressive playstyle, which suits better for a tank.

right. dva mains stop crying.
01/07/2017 01:07 PMPosted by Angel
More updates. Players started to test Sombra more actively and so it's not rare to face her on the PTR. I would say - Sombra is the new arch-nemesis of D.Va. It's unexpectedly so, but her gun usually is weak - however the spread perfectly fits into D.Va's crit. box. And don't you dare to miss the 0.8 seconds she hacks you. Because if she do - you're done, there's no way out and MEKA melts in less than 1 or 0.5 seconds.

Overall observation on match-ups (here I assume you and enemy know what you're doing):

Hard-counters:
- Soldier76. Why: no more armor damage mitigation; way too higher effective distance + high mobility.
- Reaper. Why: 200HP regular shots each per 0.5 seconds.
- Zarya. Why: not new, beam weapon. New: due to wider spread it's more difficult to hit Zarya.
- Mei. Why: same as Zarya, both points.
- RoadHog. Why: hook combo delivers more than 400HP damage.

Strong counters:
- Reinhardt
- Genji
- Tracer
- Pharah
- Torbjorn
- Sombra
- Symmetra

Relatively equal match-up:
- Widow
- Junkrat
- McCree
- Hanzo

No data yet available:
- Bastion
- Winston

I don't count supports here, but Zen and Ana can give hell of a tough time if played properly. Carousel tactics works insanely well and you have to go nose to nose to deal good damage meaning they will apply this tactics to you. I honestly couldn't now fine any hero which D.Va hard-counters. Or is a strong pick against. It feels like deja vu - in season 2 it was same, D.Va is countered by half a roaster, hard-countered by 5+ heroes and doesn't counter anyone by herself. I'm convinced this is not what should be called "balanced state"


I pretty much made the same list I just had McCree and Winston losing to D.va, but I also had Bastion beating D.va she can't beat Bastion on live no way she can do it on PTR without help. lol I did have Sombra as even though.
01/07/2017 06:37 AMPosted by Angel
What's also important - you've changed healers in this patch - and that's definitely not a great idea to coincide it with health values changes. That's my opinion.


This ^

Ana shouldn't be mandatory for running an effective D.Va.
Nor should she make D.Va overpowered when she's on the team.
Winston and D.Va is still in D.Va's favor, though considerably less so generally. But he has plenty of time to get away now.

D.Va has never been able to take out bastion alone if bastion is paying attention, and from personal experience recon mode actually can wreck meka now.
01/07/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Azn
Again, Reaper's primary goal is to flank behind enemy lines and kill squishy targets (healers, snipers, other attackers in bad areas). And again, I believe that Blizzard's intention for Reaper was to be the sneaky killer that eliminates supportive heroes rather than some bunker buster against tanks. He excels at killing whoever is healing the tank and there are currently 2 tanks he excels at "busting": Roadhog (which is sort of a 50-50 if you get the drop on him first) and Winston (he's squishy but you have to be quick to kill him).

....But hey, I'm gold what do I know?


reaper is way to slow to flank enemies, and his shotgun does really dmg in close range, so till u get to the healers, they will outplay u by themselves or the guys turn around and kill reaper
I wonder will Jeff see this. He said he wanted constructive feedback and this is exactly that. This nerf was way too hard. A simple revert back from the 100HP could have solved this quite easily. But somehow we got this absurd nerf that makes absolutely zero sense.
I actually really !@#$ing hate how Blizzard ignores actual feedback like this. They asked for feedback on the PTR changes, yet they don't even respond. Blizz, what is the actual use of PTR? To smash overnerfs into players' faces early?
01/07/2017 01:26 PMPosted by Seoulstar
I wonder will Jeff see this. He said he wanted constructive feedback and this is exactly that. This nerf was way too hard. A simple revert back from the 100HP could have solved this quite easily. But somehow we got this absurd nerf that makes absolutely zero sense.


dva main again...
01/07/2017 01:31 PMPosted by CHEATS
01/07/2017 01:26 PMPosted by Seoulstar
I wonder will Jeff see this. He said he wanted constructive feedback and this is exactly that. This nerf was way too hard. A simple revert back from the 100HP could have solved this quite easily. But somehow we got this absurd nerf that makes absolutely zero sense.


dva main again...


Let me guess, you think im one of those D.va "mains" that jumped on her after the buff, right? Or do you simply think that just because I'm a D.va main i'm biased? If they nerfed D.va in any other way that's not absurd, I wouldn't care. This nerf is bull!@#$. I have played D.va since day one. And I've never been down as quickly as I've seen in PTR with this nerf.

Edit: Actually ignore the whole "mains" part. I don't blame people for actually playing a hero and starting to main her when she actually felt like she wasn't an walking ult charge for once.
01/07/2017 01:31 PMPosted by CHEATS
01/07/2017 01:26 PMPosted by Seoulstar
I wonder will Jeff see this. He said he wanted constructive feedback and this is exactly that. This nerf was way too hard. A simple revert back from the 100HP could have solved this quite easily. But somehow we got this absurd nerf that makes absolutely zero sense.


dva main again...


how about you profile him and see that he played dva even before the buff
here ill even link you his profile if you are too lazy to do it

http://masteroverwatch.com/profile/pc/us/Seoulstar-11174/season/2
So from what I've read here, these nerfs (and the previous buffs) have exacerbated everybody's BIGGEST problem with D.Va, and it's something I think the devs really need to sort out and optimize for:

WHAT IS D.VA SUPPOSED TO DO?

If she's a tank in the vein of Reinhardt, these nerfs are fine, but her Defense Matrix needs to be improved. She needs to be able to stand there and protect her team, which requires an ability to stop damage consistently, which her Defense Matrix doesn't do adequately enough to compete with Reinhardt's/Zarya's/Winston's barriers. It needs better coverage, and/or increased up-time.

If she's a dive tank like Winston, this ruins her completely. She's supposed to jump on the enemy team, kill the squishies, and run. She can't do that though if she's stuck behind enemy lines for 5 seconds with the low damage, crappy armor, and unidirectional 4-second defense she has now on PTR (that is completely ruined by dead spaces and hit box sizes anyway).

If she's supposed to be an armored bully (like I tend to play her), then this is a bit of a mixed bag (By bully, I mean she sticks with the team as an off-tank/DPS, but if a threat appears, she's the one who has to engage it and make it go away somehow, e.g. Widowmaker or Soldier. Kill or scare, depends on the D.Va and the threat). The damage nerf is fine - she shouldn't be killing people outright. She does need her armor back, however, if she's going to survive the pressure of jumping dangerous people.

These are three completely different ways of playing her, and they are all valid styles that have a place in the game. But one hero cannot do all of them, because they will either suck at them all (jack of all trades, master of none), or be completely overpowered. At launch, D.Va tended to fall into the armored bully category (from what I saw, I didn't play her much). With the Defense Matrix redo, she was a tank proper. With the armor/speed increase, she could do all three adequately, but was a little overpowered. Now... I don't know what they're going for. If they're going to make her balanced, they need to have something she's good at (e.g. diving), and make her BEST at that and NOT BEST at direct tanking. I think they're lacking that kind of direction, and D.Va's suffering from the whims of the playerbase as a result.

Thoughts?
01/07/2017 01:07 PMPosted by Angel
More updates. Players started to test Sombra more actively and so it's not rare to face her on the PTR. I would say - Sombra is the new arch-nemesis of D.Va. It's unexpectedly so, but her gun usually is weak - however the spread perfectly fits into D.Va's crit. box. And don't you dare to miss the 0.8 seconds she hacks you. Because if she do - you're done, there's no way out and MEKA melts in less than 1 or 0.5 seconds.


Experimentally, I teamed up with someone earlier to check something. A single Sombra clip will completely destroy the MEKA if unloaded into her face.

So Sombra's now actually countering a tank, just the one that she should be doing the least actual damage to.
As a non-D.Va main before the buffs, yeah, new D.Va was OP, for a flanker, aggresive tank. But the changes made her into the category of where Sombra & Winston belongs.

Risk is no longer worthy for the reward due to armor nerf, and at the same time you can't take the less risky way either because of the pellet/damage change. Given mobility right now is no way to make up for what's been lost as D.Va's character, it'd be most likely better if we went back into the time before the buff.

As a role, any other tank right now, maybe only questionable with Winston, will be more reliable picks, since she can't provide her role any longer, imho.

Most of the people here seems to be all about "She needed counters!" and what not, but you're all missing the point that, survival part of a tank is taken away here, with no compensation, instead also forced to be more frontline. This doesn't seem that much different than cutting Mercy's healing/buff range by half when two changes combined.
01/07/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Azn
Again, Reaper's primary goal is to flank behind enemy lines and kill squishy targets (healers, snipers, other attackers in bad areas). And again, I believe that Blizzard's intention for Reaper was to be the sneaky killer that eliminates supportive heroes rather than some bunker buster against tanks. He excels at killing whoever is healing the tank and there are currently 2 tanks he excels at "busting": Roadhog (which is sort of a 50-50 if you get the drop on him first) and Winston (he's squishy but you have to be quick to kill him).

....But hey, I'm gold what do I know?
Right... the guy who stomps around in combat boots and appears in a cloud of purple smoke while announcing "From the shadows!" is supposed to be sneaky. I am not exactly convinced thatthat sneaking is his intended useuse when we have an actual ninja. I have spent 50 hours on Reaper and flanking with him is slow. I typically have to take a roundabout journey and 2 uses of shadow step. It will often take a minute or more to get into a good position safely in a game where you have only a few minutes to achieve the objective.

I am not saying that buffing DVA is bad, she needed it. I am saying that buffing DVA in a hard counter for Reaper is bad and makes the tank meta worse.

Look at Reaper v tank matchups.

Reinhardt: aim for the head, stay outside of hammer swing, if the shield is up, close in and bounce around.

Winston: wreck the monkey by shooting him.

Zarya: pay attention to her charge and bubbles, and engage accordingly.

Roadhog: fill him with bullets and try to dodge the hook, if he heals himself decide whether to burst him down or run.

He can wreck any tank until DVA was changed and he was not. Now with a DVA in the majority of my matches, Reaper is shut down.
Nice feedback. Hope it's at least combed through.
01/07/2017 01:58 PMPosted by punisher
Right... the guy who stomps around in combat boots and appears in a cloud of purple smoke while announcing "From the shadows!" is supposed to be sneaky. I am not exactly convinced thatthat sneaking is his intended useuse when we have an actual ninja. I have spent 50 hours on Reaper and flanking with him is slow. I typically have to take a roundabout journey and 2 uses of shadow step. It will often take a minute or more to get into a good position safely in a game where you have only a few minutes to achieve the objective.


He's not sneaky, but he certainly has abilities to flank.

The thing you seem to be saying here is that after the hero that had armour for her entire existence got changes completely unrelated to armour, she miraculously gained the ability to resist Reaper and shoot him down? All her abilities from the offset have been a counter to Reaper, some of them just weren't necessarily working.

But now you're claiming that she's only just become a counter to Reaper and needs to be changed so that he can counter an entire class, most of another class (Support), snipers, and have a good chance at bringing down most offensive characters if they engage up close?
01/07/2017 01:28 PMPosted by Huskii
I actually really !@#$ing hate how Blizzard ignores actual feedback like this. They asked for feedback on the PTR changes, yet they don't even respond. Blizz, what is the actual use of PTR? To smash overnerfs into players' faces early?

... because for every summarized post with actual feedback, real PTR experience, comparison with live and numbers involved we get tons of posts like this: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752550220?page=1 which shows no efforts, no gameplay made and simply states "hero is fine" without any argumentation. It's just "my opinion - nerfs are good, hero X should stay like this" - and nothing more.

And look - the post is highly rated. And look - I'm even being dv-d for pointing on the fact that the post is just a biased "nerf call" without any data of constructive feedback: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752550220#post-11
So why then we complain PTR changes are getting though and heroes which are simply working are royally screwed after these changes? If the community shows value to such posts like I linked - it's no wonder we have changes like on this PTR iteration coming live.
01/07/2017 02:23 PMPosted by Angel
01/07/2017 01:28 PMPosted by Huskii
I actually really !@#$ing hate how Blizzard ignores actual feedback like this. They asked for feedback on the PTR changes, yet they don't even respond. Blizz, what is the actual use of PTR? To smash overnerfs into players' faces early?

... because for every summarized post with actual feedback, real PTR experience, comparison with live and numbers involved we get tons of posts like this: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752550220?page=1 which shows no efforts, no gameplay made and simply states "hero is fine" without any argumentation. It's just "my opinion - nerfs are good, hero X should stay like this" - and nothing more.

And look - the post is highly rated. And look - I'm even being dv-d for pointing on the fact that the post is just a biased "nerf call" without any data of constructive feedback: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752550220#post-11
So why then we complain PTR changes are getting though and heroes which are simply working are royally screwed after these changes? If the community shows value to such posts like I linked - it's no wonder we have changes like on this PTR iteration coming live.


yea but i hope a thread as comprehensive will at leasr get looked

i think ceratisa added this thread to part 2 of the ptr dva thread that got over 300 upvotes against the decision
It's people like these who are the real reason dva gets nerfed.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752550236?page=1#post-11

"Oh no my widow gets countered by one character, what an obnoxious character. They need to be nerfed hard so I don't have to ever switch characters, I need to be able to continue to snipe around uncontested since that's fun gameplay to me"

Like- look, if your character gets countered by something, you need to swap to something that's not completely shut down by a counter on a game that's based on rock-paper-scissors. This is a no brainer no matter what mode. And I highly doubt uncontested widowmaker is especially fun to the 6 other people on enemy team, removing dva from the equation would mean highly lower gameplay fun value for the opposing team. No one likes to get steamrolled by one character. And that's why we have matchups on this game. Which all are getting thrown out of the window when dva becomes unusuable.

We've had so many soldier threads about them needing to counter pharah and failing to do so solo. Dva was one of the things keeping pharah's in check along with solider. Not so much anymore, Pharah is going to have pretty much free ulti time while lower ranks cry out for pharah nerf because lower rank soldiers have especially hard time killing her due to aiming. Low rank widow is not much better at killing Pharah's.

One time I was playing zarya, soldier was already taken, pharah decided to focus on me on second match and I could not do much about it as zarya. I switched to dva and obliterated her and won the game. On ptr dva I'd have had to swap away from tanking altogether to play mcree/widow and leave my other tank buddy alone, because ptr dva can no longer handle pharah.

We've had many solider threads crying out for soldier nerf. Well, with lackuster dva, soldier is going to have the best field day ever with nanovisor which dva can't stop now even if she tried. There's going to be so much crying for nerfs as soon as ptr goes live ya won't believe it.

Widowmaker is going to have another field day at the higher ranks. Dva won't be able to contest her now and she's going to have free reign sniping everyone who dares to peek.

Good example video why team needs a good dva to keep widow in check: https://youtu.be/-mJtWGKJe-Y?t=475

These are just a few examples of why I highly doubt game will get any better with dva nerf.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum