Can the developers address Bastion?

General Discussion
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01/30/2017 09:19 AMPosted by BaconPiano
W-what about Mercy?
she's been buffed multiple times, Bastion has not.
If I may make a suggestion to look at Legion in Titanfall's tactical mode option where he can get an increased view with a delay and less FOV in favor of less falloff/spread but consume double ammo
01/30/2017 10:52 AMPosted by Data
If I may make a suggestion to look at Legion in Titanfall's tactical mode option where he can get an increased view with a delay and less FOV in favor of less falloff/spread but consume double ammo
he'd probably need Legions shield too, it's smaller than the beta one (it doesn't cover all of him, just his gun and center of mass.)

having another delayed ability would really hurt him without some sort of survivability.
01/30/2017 08:02 AMPosted by Crucifer
01/28/2017 08:15 PMPosted by Hecatomb
I still think they should get rid of his heal ability and replace it with something else.


The thing is, his self-heal is one of the few things in his toolkit that keeps him a bit more self-sustainable so that he does not need to rely on a healer on his back all the time.

Its just that its a bit iffy to use due to the fact that you can't move or attack while you use it, and its interruptible with damage, thus giving it the impression that its useless since its horrid when you are facing focus fire or a very persistent chaser.

01/29/2017 12:06 AMPosted by Hecatomb
There are a lot of heroes that cant self heal, and are just fine, knowing where health packs are helps.


Except that Bastion is a large and slow/immobile target that makes him easier to aim at and shoot down, and unlike tanks that his size is comparable to (while having worst mobility then some of them), he is only supported by 300 health.

This combination makes him !@#$tier if he has to rely on running to health packs for health, and you have to account for the time taken for him to shift into mobile mode before having to run around looking for a health pack while hoping that the enemy does not see him or has a horrible aim that would prevent them from shooting down a Roadhog-sized target.

01/29/2017 12:06 AMPosted by Hecatomb

His healing ability is pretty useless also vs his hard counters like, snipers, pharah, who can just kill him and wont give him time to heal. Or if someone like reaper just gets behind him and just kills him in 2 shots, your heal doesnt even matter.


Useless yes, if you park yourself in the open and/or not bother trying to run away when they are beginning to make big chips out of you.

When I play Bastion, I park myself right next to areas that will allow me to duck behind should damage on me gets heavy. If there is one weakness that long-ranged attackers have on you, its that they are not in a position to chase after you once you decide to duck out of their line of sight to self-heal, meaning that they can certainly chase you off, but they can't kill you if you play smart.

Flankers are a totally different ball game and are one of Bastion's biggest weaknesses. Because they can and will chase you down when you are at low health, meaning that they will finish you off most of the time unless you kill them first. Fighting flankers is where Bastion's self-heal is at his most ineffective.

Though to be honest Reaper is often a flanker that I have one of the least problems with (compared to Genji, Tracer and Sombra). The only time I get reaped by him is if I'm too distracted, or if I can't outgun him in time. Reaper is flanker that has pretty loud footsteps, is even louder if he uses shadow step, and has to be very close to do huge damage to you. And unlike Genji, Tracer or Sombra, he is a larger target then them and isn't as mobile as them save for Wraith form. So dealing with Reaper is mostly about detecting him first before he gets to you, and then outgunning him.

In summary: Bastion's self-heal does matter since its the only thing that keeps him self-sustainable for a hero of his size and mobility (think Roadhog basically). Its just that it could do with a bit of improvements.

At least let him move when he's self-healing, and don't make it interruptible by damage. 75 health per second isn't a godly heal that needs to be interruptible. Its not like it could potentially outheal enemy fire if Bastion decides to throw himself into the middle of a fight.


Your entire argument is that it's the only survival ability for him, but what if it was to be traded with, say, a toggleable shield?

01/30/2017 09:13 AMPosted by Flaze
Please no. Bastion can be effective in gold, and he destroys all in silver/bronze. I usually have to take out Bastion with Rein or healers because my teammates ignore him and get gunned down constantly. I don't want to see Bastion in every game.

Terribly hero. He's useless if the enemy knows how to deal with him, and he's a death machine if they don't. No middle ground for Bastion.


The point of those changes is to find that middle ground where he exists later and is less terrible for the lower players.
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!
Highly Rated
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


interesting

Your entire argument is that it's the only survival ability for him, but what if it was to be traded with, say, a toggleable shield?

[/quote]

I've mentioned this in several threads: A shield might render Bastion a bit too invincible if used well.

Basically, think about how many things Reinhardt's shield block, then apply it to Bastion. Bastion can potentially be immune to, other then enemy fire:

Roadhog's hook, Ana's sleep dart, Sombra's hack, Reinhardt's Earthshatter, and Explosive ults like D.VA's self destruct, Tracer's pulse bomb and Junkrat's riptire if they go off in front of his shield.

While I am all for buffing Bastion, I still think its wise to let him be reasonable enough to deal with (since he still has the highest DPS in the game), so I would prefer a buff for him that addresses his core issue:

That his 300 health is just not enough to sustain a hero with the size and mobility of Roadhog.

Just a health buff that takes his overall health to 450 would be a good start. A simple increase in health means that he can still be dealt with by other means other then 'trying to outgun him', but he can take a bit more punishment to maintain a bit more presence on the battlefield or give him enough time to shift out and run away.
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


These sound pretty great! The removal of Headshots was something Ive never heard someone suggest, even though its an effective way of lowering the damage done.

The damage reduction for Sentry Mode seems like an effective way of giving Bastion back the "HP" he used to have without turning him into an ultimate farm, I am however scared for our little gold players.
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


Recon and self-repair changes are just what I wanted. Thank you very much~

Sentry mode changes are interesting. Can't wait to try them out. Definitely liked how you guys decided to solidify his purpose as a tank buster. Dunno what to feel about increased spread, but removing headshots is a understandable move given his already high DPS. Would like to see how he takes less damage when transformed, like whether he gets an increase in overall health or a totally new feature that reduces the damage he takes (as compared to armour).
Bastion = RoadHog Buster :)
I like the sound of those changes. That sounds like a good direction for Bastion. It will be interesting to see how they work out on the PTR.
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


These sound like some great changes, but from reading them I'm worried there won't be much point in going into sentry mode if you can hit headshots in recon, unless the DR is drastic and still applies while transforming.

I look forward to testing them as soon as the PTR is out.
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


I find these changes VERY interesting(except the removing headshots) and im very happy. So happy that I actually jumped out of my chair. Cant wait to see them how they work in the PTR. Anyway stay awesome Geoff Goodman :)
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


The changes for Recon Mode & self-repair are what I wanted, so thank you for giving Bastion those changes.
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


YES GOD YES
FINALLY
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!
yooooooooooooooooo this is really sweet! Can't wait to try them out.
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


with the additions of these changes, i can only assume that it would be necessary to change or reduce other features.

for example, further improving his self-repair would cause his ultimate to be used more frequently.

or the self-repair HPS out healing some damage if it were to be used uninterrupted.
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


Marry me?

So, will we get increased armour in Sentry Mode to answer that "reduced damage"?

Also, what about Tank Mode? Will that change at all?
01/30/2017 11:56 AMPosted by solow
01/30/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Geoff Goodman
Here are some high level stuff we're likely to have testable in the next PTR:

Recon Mode - Lowered spread and increased magazine size, to help with general viability in this mode.

Sentry Mode - We're looking at focusing this mode into more of a tank-buster and barrier-buster mode, while also making it feel less suicidal to be transformed. To that end we're testing stuff like increased spread and removing headshots, but taking less damage while transformed.

Self-Repair - We've been testing a few big changes to this that are feeling really good so far. Currently our internal build has Bastion able to use Self-Repair while moving and also having it no longer interrupted when taking damage. To balance that out it is now on a resource system (similar to the route D.Va's defense matrix went). These changes have turned this ability from a more niche rarely used ability, to a much more powerful and core survivability tool.

We're still testing and tweaking things with Bastion but we'll hopefully have a PTR build coming fairly soon so you guys can try it out!


These sound like some great changes, but from reading them I'm worried there won't be much point in going into sentry mode if you can hit headshots in recon, unless the DR is drastic and still applies while transforming.

I look forward to testing them as soon as the PTR is out.


Pretty sure the DPS difference will still be massive.
...What?

So, Bastion is vulnerable while in Sentry Mode. That's its balancing. He's an incredible area denial tool whose literal only balancing mechanic is being vulnerable, immobile and not self-sufficient enough to stay static for too long under stress. But you want to remove that?

I don't... understand this. Isn't Sentry Mode supposed to feel dangerous? Isn't that the trade off for his power? I get making Recon Mode more viable but the other two changes sound incredibly silly and unwarranted to me. Especially because of the recent changes to Torbjörn and Symmetra, and Symmetra being such a gigantic pain right now, it really feels like Blizzard is forcing game speed to slow down to a boring crawl by massively buffing static defense.

You're balancing a character under the pretense that "a Bastion player may not always have an entire team built around them", meanwhile characters like Tracer and Genji remain able to get free picks off of all but one Support character as the designers' response is: "Please build a team around your Supports."

I really, really don't get this game sometimes.

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